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Uzuzu
1431
Mar 4, 2016
3 drivers 500 bucks 6 drivers should cost that here on a ciem The reviews on these too are just okay, 7.5/10 in sound? That sounds like a meh
RDaneel
48
Mar 4, 2016
UzuzuI'm not the manufacturer of these, but as an experienced headphone buyer, I can say for sure that counting the number of drivers is not a good way to assess quality or set price. Of course, building in 12 drivers costs more in parts than 1, but saying that a headphone "should" have X number of drivers because it costs X price is just silly. From what I have read from owners, these headphones perform very close to the W500 model, and that is likely a very good level of performance for $450. Sure, I'd love to see "perfect 10" headphones for $450, but what are the chances of that?
Uzuzu
1431
Mar 5, 2016
RDaneelI already know more drivers doesn't mean better sound. But these don't have the greatest sound to begin with and most the top tier CIEMS use 6 drivers at the moment so there is a bit of reasoning to what I said.
RDaneel
48
Mar 5, 2016
UzuzuWhich are the top tier CIEMs? I don't recall any of the TOTL BA-based CIEMs that have six drivers. Also, you are comparing BA-only IEMs to a hybrid. The W300 and W500 use a dynamic driver for the lows, making them a very different headphone than BA-only. Look at the "Fit for a Bat" review of top tier CIEMs. The W500, which is a hybrid, came in second in that shootout, beating the Kaiser 10 and some 12-driver setups. You're comparing apples and oranges, and doing it only on the basis of driver count and one review. If I can get a similar sound to a headphone as good as the W500 for only $450, I'm going to try it...
nicpope
448
Mar 5, 2016
RDaneelThe number of drivers in an IEM is a pretty fascinating topic with a few factors at play.
1) We have to separate the technology of balanced armature drivers and dynamic drivers. They have a totally different set of pros and cons. a) Balanced Armatures i) Pros - High speed, high efficiency, small size, venting not as much of a concern. ii) Cons - Inherently high distortion outside of a very specific range they are tuned for hence the improvement that can follow increasing the number of drivers. b) Dynamic drivers i) Pros - Cover a wide range of frequencies easily, slightly slower to develop and dampen can be perceived as a 'warm' low end ii) Cons - Lower efficiency, must consider whether to vent (isolation vs. simple pressure management), slightly slower to develop and dampen low end is less precise than BA drivers, larger in size (size is an additional complication as when wavelength increases the dispersion pattern changes dramatically). 2) We have to consider the pros and cons of a multi driver setup. a) Single Driver i) Pros - No crossover necessary, no time arrival differences, smaller in size than a multi driver setup ii) Cons - Building one driver to cover the whole frequency range is difficult, particularly in the form factor of an IEM. b) Multi Driver i) Pros - Can use specific elements tuned to specific frequency ranges. ii) Cons - Use of a crossover introduces phase shift (amount depends on slope of crossover), use of multiple elements in different positions introduces time arrival differences at the ear drum, takes extra space.
The more I think about it the combo of a dynamic driver on the low end with balanced armatures for mids and highs makes more and more sense to me. Most people enjoy the extended frequency response you can get by using multiple drivers and we've figured out ways to solve the problems introduced (time arrival and crossover phase shift) but the challenge most balanced armature IEM's I've heard have is that at least one of them is just trying to do too much work and ends up sounding harsh at higher volumes (distortion is what clues us in when something is loud).
I don't know the exact crossover points used in the W300 (I am listening to Melvins - Houdini on them as I write) but my suspicion is that the dynamic driver is doing a lot of the heavy lifting here up into the lower midrange (1.5khz or so) where the balanced armatures pick up. If I'm correct that means the dynamic is handling about 6 octaves of range leaving the BA drivers about 2 octaves each.
Yifei2882
10
Mar 5, 2016
nicpopeWhy massdrop did not consider bringing w500 to a drop. With its reputation from the reviewer, it would be a hit.
macz0211
19
Mar 6, 2016
nicpopeI usually revert to science to give me a solid opinion on an item, but honestly items like CIEM are all about a person's personal interpretations and preferences. I would have to contend though that, while having a hybrid CIEM(with a dynamic drive for the low end) makes sense, it might have alot of shortcomings in regards to particular genres of music. Take for example classical music, something with very articulated bass notes, such as Holst-The Planets-Mars, someone might lose some detail opting fora hybrid versus an all armature CIEM. Personally, I have never found a dynamic driver on the low end to be anywhere near precise enough compared to armatures. Of course this depends on the quality of the armatures/dynamic drivers, but just wanted to bring another perspective into the conversation.
nicpope
448
Mar 7, 2016
macz0211Yeah, I think we pretty much agree on the science but have different preference for the low end. I have balanced armature IEM's that I really like too but the w300's are very relaxing to listen to in comparison.
kevin_aaw
124
Mar 7, 2016
macz0211It is actually depending on how you perceive the so called precision. Alternatively speaking, balanced armature speakers often deliver a paced and punchy bass as perceived by human ear, and it it achieved with a quick roll off below 100~150hz. On the contrary, dynamic driver exhibits no such behavior and is able to maintain good sound pressure given its larger diaphragm and ability to move air. That is the exact reason why we built these monitors in a hybrid configuration. The roll off on the BA drivers can be tackled with vented acoustic enclosure but you can't overcome the diaphragm size differences. So in another way, BA drivers is losing details on the subbass to make you feel you have more precision over other spectrum. Another advantage is, when used individually, BA drivers usually has THD between 1%~5% while good DD can hit below 0.5% across the range. I hope this helps explain a bit on the hybrid approach~
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