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DaveJ
54
Aug 2, 2018
The logo is awfully similar to a swastika
RayF
22212
Aug 3, 2018
DaveJIt does--coincidence?
Kavik
5531
Aug 3, 2018
DaveJUmmmm...🤔 No more than anything else with straight lines and 90 degree angles in an overall square shape lol
RayF
22212
Aug 3, 2018
DaveJ
54
Aug 3, 2018
KavikJust seems like something you would want to intentionally avoid if you are designing a logo.
Kavik
5531
Aug 3, 2018
RayF🙄 I didn't really have a specific one in mind, was just pointing out that that's really where the similarities end. Anything beyond that and it's your brain making the association
But, okay, I'll play.
-Windows -Columbia -AVG -The recycle symbol on some coffee cup lids There's a few in a quick search that could be claimed to contain a swastika, if someone were looking for one i suppose. Hell, I'm pretty sure I even saw someone make this comparison to the WE symbol here once lol
-this one section in a pattern on a Hanukkah wrapping paper https://goo.gl/images/L2YdZK Not a logo, but a funny one to show how people overreact to this. I'm sure we all know that the Nazi's didn't create the swastika. They bastardized an existing icon for their own use. One that has a longer standing history as a positive symbol than it's relatively short lived symbol of hatred, racism, etc. And this one that is just a small section of a pattern is actually drawn in the original orientation, not the reversed Nazi version, but still, narrow minded people were up in arms over it and got it pulled from shelves.
I personally find it just funny how people look at some of these things, draw in outlines that barely exist, and post them online going "OMG! Company xxx is feeding us subliminal nazi advertising" 🙄 But still, every one of those examples, silly as they are, are closer than this one is.
To be fair, the pivot pin looks closer than the logo
Kavik
5531
Aug 3, 2018
DaveJWell sure, yeah, I agree with that. Just don't agree that it looks that much like it is all *shrug*
But we all see things differently. My guess would be that the designer didn't see it that way either, or they would've tweaked it a bit more
RayF
22212
Aug 3, 2018
KavikFirst of all, no one is asking you to play, however, after careful consideration, I'm rating your comments "total shit" @DaveJ gets it, you don't--the resemblance is obvious.
BTW, the Hanukkah wrapping paper you referenced uses the classic Greek Key design, nothing even remotely similar to a swastika, nor are any of the other examples you mentioned. I find it funny how people can't see what's plainly in front of their face--only it's never funny when swastikas are the subject.
Meanwhile, I don't think the company intended the resemblance, but to deny it exists or compare it to the Windows or Recycle logos (or suggest it's along the lines of seeing Jesus in pancake) makes me think it's time for you to visit your optometrist.
Live long and eat tomatoes.
Kavik
5531
Aug 3, 2018
RayF*shrugs* think what you want man, I'm not bothered by having a difference of opinion. Those are just the ones that came up when I Googled "logo looks like a swastika", as opposed to your "square logo" search, none of it was based off of my opinions.
The wrapping paper didn't remotely resemble a swastika? Are you kidding me? The center of that particular pattern is exactly the left facing version of the swastika, not the right facing and angled version the nazi used. But, still they pulled it from the market because people were offended by the swastika design. That's exactly what I'm saying though, the symbol has been used in many forms that in no way are connecting to anything racist, antisemitic, or in any other negative way. Both as a stand alone symbol and as part of bigger designs.
CAN i see where a swastika COULD be found in this logo? Sure, I'm not blind. But my point is a) that's not what it actually is and b) if it WERE intended to be reminiscent of that; first, it would be the left facing version, not the right facing version the nazi party adopted and bastardized (again, talking about the logo, not the pivot). Second, the symbol, in both forms, had something like 15,000 years of history before it was cast into a negative light roughly 100 years ago. And in many places in the world it still has other, non-villainous meanings.
I know I'm treading a thin line here, and in NO WAY am i defending nazis, their modern day counterparts, or anyone who is legitimately using this icon as a symbol of hatred. I'm just pointing out that the icon, in and of itself, is not the bad thing. If people don't realize that, then it'll never mean anything other than the one thing it stood for for, what, less than 1% of it's historical lifespan?
Here's a fun article for you. All sorts of history, questioning whether or not the symbol can ever be "reclaimed" after the nazis used it, and even shows your Greek Key design as an example of where it's been found in history https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29644591
You could learn a little yourself before claiming other people's thoughts are "total shit" 😉
RayF
22212
Aug 3, 2018
KavikOh, well never mind then ;- )
Kavik
5531
Aug 3, 2018
RayF
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🤣🤣
RayF
22212
Aug 4, 2018
KavikInteresting reading for those with a better grip:
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007453
Kavik
5531
Aug 4, 2018
RayFI'm afraid you lost me, what was your point on this one?
RayF
22212
Aug 4, 2018
KavikMy point was: "The logo is awfully similar to a swastika."
Kavik
5531
Aug 4, 2018
RayFLol nevermind, I'm done. Your logic is making less and less sense as this conversation progresses
RayF
22212
Aug 4, 2018
KavikExcellent, now we're getting somewhere--I've been trying to avoid further progression of this conversation--appreciate your catching up!
Now we have time to pursue important issues ;- )
Axeguy
1372
Aug 4, 2018
RayFA better grip on what, Ray? History, Iconography, Archæology, your true feelings for @Kavik when he slows down a runaway train...? 🎟🎪🤪...😇
Kavik
5531
Aug 4, 2018
Axeguy
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Hop on Ray!
🤭
RayF
22212
Aug 4, 2018
AxeguyAll of the above: History, Iconography, Archæology (although I'm not convinced a ligature in the latter is appropriate, but I appreciate creative typography as much as the next guy) however, expressing no particular feelings towards @Kavik (though he seem's a fine fellow, so far as I know) but most certainly exercising my option to exit an otherwise, dull conversation--that apparently you are interested in resurrecting? If so, please see @Kavik above.
Kavik
5531
Aug 4, 2018
RayFLol dull, but you felt the need to bring it back this morning with your weird link that added nothing to either side of the conversation? Oookay haha
Nah, I'm good. I think we can all let this one die and continue on happily with our lives
RayF
22212
Aug 4, 2018
KavikIf only!!!
Axeguy
1372
Aug 5, 2018
KavikHaaahahaha!!!
I get who the two claymation guys are (you look good @RayF; lose some weight?) but am I the one in the box in the centre of the track...? I’m always the guy in the box, around the corner, or on the grassy knoll, etc. Always a bridesmaid; never the bride.... But you guys respect me though; right...? Guys...? Awwww, man....not again! “Just pull the trigger and we’ll be your best friends, blah, blah, blah...” Whatever. Ooooh, lookit the time! ‘Scuse me; got me some threads to tangle and some half-thoughts to peddle as half-truths! So...when is the party, Guys...? Guys...? *sigh*
Kavik
5531
Aug 6, 2018
AxeguyLol I didn't have a particular spot in the gif for you. Sorry, just working with what I had in this gify thing 😋
RayF
22212
Aug 6, 2018
AxeguyTake a number.
Hatuletoh
850
Dec 9, 2018
DaveJAn old conversation, to be sure, but the drop came up again, so this thread did too. Whilst browsing about Amazon one day, I found the perfect gift for the, um...how should I put it?...for the "fabulous fascist", or "non-traditional Nazi":
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Now, I knew what was going on with this bead, which rather shocking to Western eyes, and it might be a similar situation with the Artisan logo. Everyone knows the Nazis didnt invent the swastika, they just appropriated it, or at least the left-handed version of it. Before they came along, in most Western cultures, at least the right-handed variety was considered a positive symbol; and in some places particularly in the East, right or left was associated with Male and female, and both varieties of swastikas were considered to be bringers of good luck, and good health. I dont think the West will ever get that symbol back as a positive thing--too much Nazi baggage. But that's not the case in Asia, especially in countries with sizable Buddhist and/or Hindu populations. To this day, the swastika is a positive symbol, and they are pretty universally unaware of the Western aversion to it. As the lanyard bead on Amazon makes pretty clear. So Artisan may well have intended to to evoke the swastika with their logo. For the record, when I saw that page on Amazon, and saw that the vendor was brand new, I sent them a message explaining the situation. I told them that I knew the symbol had thousands of years of history where they were from, and I didn't think they were promoting fascism or anti-Semitism, etc., but that most Americans would only think "Nazi!" and "skinhead!" and "racist!" when they saw it. To the vendor's credit, they sent me a response thanking me for explaining the situation to them, and . They apologized and immediately removed the page.
RayF
22212
Dec 9, 2018
HatuletohYeah, I’d agree that symbol is radioactive for the next 50,000 years, but try to suggest another use for the common Cross symbol—that one is pretty much glued to Christianity forever. Everyone else is just going to have to come up with their own designs going forward, those two are “booked.”
Kavik
5531
Dec 9, 2018
RayFI'm sorry, but I think that example is a bit backwards. I mean, what you're saying CAN'T happen to the cross literally IS what happened to the Swastika. It'd be more like...imagine if a political group was using using the Christian cross, and after that group got themselves a good strong foothold, with a large following, then they did a bunch of evil, heinous shit, on a level above and beyond what the nazis did (assumedly, considering today's more advanced weaponry), until half the world had to join in to take them down....you're saying the cross wouldn't then become "radioactive for 50,000 years" too, because it's too "glued to Christianity"? The cross has been tied to Christianity since roughly the 2nd or 3rd century, let's be generous and say 2,000 years. Whereas the Swastika had about 12-15,000 years of history prior to the Nazis appropriating it. By comparison, it's a much 'younger' symbol. And really, it already has been misused in similar ways. Show just about anyone in the western world an upside down cross, and they're going to tell you it's nothing more than an inverted cross; a symbol of evil, or anti-Christianity. Most don't even know that it is itself a Christian symbol as well, known as the Cross of Peter, or a Petrine Cross, and has nothing to do with anything evil. Point being, many symbols from many different religions get misused by others with different agendas all the time. But it's all about perspective. You already know the cross as a positive symbol, so you can't imagine it being anything else, right? But in America, we have no real history with the Swastika prior to Nazi Germany. Imagine for a minute though that you're from a country where it already had that strong history of positive imagery for 10,000+ years. I bet you would feel the same about it as you feel now about the cross...that others can try to misuse it, but it could never be taken away from its origins
RayF
22212
Dec 10, 2018
KavikActually, that bit about "in America..." isn't quite true, the symbol shows up in Native American art/symbolism too. That said, this conversation no longer holds my interest--no offense
Kavik
5531
Dec 10, 2018
RayFLol oookaay.... Well, it's been fun and educational, until next time! 😁
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 10, 2018
KavikOn the lighter side, if you tilt your head to the left, and look at the logo on the blade, it sort of looks like the logo for the NY football Giants! 👊😎
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(Edited)
Kavik
5531
Dec 10, 2018
DougFLA123Lmao very good man, very good. I like the lighter side better
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 17, 2018
KavikHey Man! You may know this already but KnifeCenter is having a sale on Bestech knives. I don’t know how good the sale is and you may be all Bestech’d out, but here’s a link to those Bestech knives. https://www.knifecenter.com/department/holiday-sales/all-in-stock-bestech-knives-on-sale

Kavik
5531
Dec 17, 2018
DougFLA123Lol not "Bestech'd out" yet, but the sale isn't good enough to do any big spending right before Christmas Prices on the ones i don't have yet are +/- only a few dollars from what the normal prices are at other sites (like white mountain knives, with coupon code LTK)
Hatuletoh
850
Dec 17, 2018
KavikOh yeah, that reminded me: just as you said, I kind of figured "regular" sale prices wouldn't be too exciting because the discount isn't enough to justify a purchase you wouldn't otherwise make,esp this time of year. It's only during the holidays that I ever wish I was younger, like a lot younger, say 8-10 yrs old again, when the hardest $$ decisions I had to make were which video games/pinball machines were worthy of my quarters? Well, that's not quite true, I suppose. I was involved in some MAJOR asset trading back in the day, sometimes including multiple parties, secret negations, huge speculation and risk about the future asset value...baseball cards seemed like deadly serious business as a kid, and considering how a weird rare one would occassionally shoot up to be worth $5K, $10K, even $20K, it sometimes could be serious. We kids all figured we'd get rich and retire after high school on the value of our normal, mundane collections--we just had go let them age a little. Unfortunately, just about every other kid out age in America figured the same thing. The only ones who got rich were the shady card company execs, who printed so many cards that even the best ones from that period are just about worthless today. Anyway... BladeHQ has a couple Bestech pieces on "closeout" sale, which is a more significant discount. I like both these models, actually; might get one if I can find the cash: https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Closeout-Sale--1076#/filter:brand:Bestech$2520Knives
Kavik
5531
Dec 17, 2018
HatuletohLol i think even as adults many of us think the same about our collectables. Those deals look much better. I just recently got the Emporer here on MD for around that price. Nice knife, bigger than I pictured in my head, but haven't had time to really play with it or tear it down yet Edit : no, wait, i lied. The Emporer was $150 here. Dammit. Great deal lol
(Edited)
Kavik
5531
Dec 17, 2018
HatuletohUgh. Okay. So I bought the Shogun to go with my Emporer lol Thanks for showing me that (only half sarcasm lol)
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 17, 2018
HatuletohThose are excellent prices on the Bestech Emperor! I wish I didn’t already own it! Great price on the Shogun as well!
(Edited)
Kavik
5531
Dec 20, 2018
DougFLA123Well, speaking of uninformed overseas branding lol My Shogun arrived today, true old stock clearance lol My only Bestech to date with their old "BTK" logo, before someone informed them of the negative connotations of those initials on a knife here in the US haha
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But I'm still keeping it, nice to find a first production run so late and at such a good price..... And, you know, cuz I'm not so closed minded that I think everything only has one meaning 🤣😜
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 20, 2018
KavikThe price you got was great! I do like first production runs with serial numbers. Makes them unique. I saw the documentary on the BTK killer not too long ago. I bought the Bestech Emperor a couple of years ago and the picture that was shown was with the BTK on the blade, but what was delivered to me was the new logo on the blade. At first I thought I received a fake, but then I found out that they had changed the logo...probably a good thing. I do like the new logo better. BladeHQ still has the old pictures up, I guess because they are still selling the old knives. 🤓
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Kavik
5531
Dec 20, 2018
DougFLA123Lol yup, it explains the discount. And yeah, new logo is WAY better. Regardless of the initials, it's just 100x more professional looking Wish I hadn't just gotten the Emporer here right before that sale though... Oh well, can't win 'em all
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 20, 2018
KavikWho knew?? You wait to make a purchase, it doesn’t go on sale, you buy it early, and it does go on sale! Very frustrating! 😢
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 21, 2018
KavikMy last Bestech purchase wasn’t too long ago. I bought the medium size Emperor with the 3.125” blade and the green/gold Ti handle. I love it. Perfect detent, centering and very sharp out of the box.
Kavik
5531
Dec 21, 2018
DougFLA123My first impression when I took that one out of the box was that it would've looked cooler just a little smaller lol They really do so some great sharpening for a factory edge! I just tore down the Toucan I just got, to give it a proper review, and that edge was almost scary when knocking around loose in my lap tray 😳 But, we've now went and gone off topic on an already or topic conversation hahaha
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 21, 2018
KavikAs Peter Falk (as Columbo) use to say...just one more thing... I give you the Emperor, the Emperor Jr, and of course the Starfighter!
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Kavik
5531
Dec 21, 2018
DougFLA123Yeeup. I bought the wrong knife I think 😒
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 21, 2018
KavikIf you bought the Emperor at BladeHQ you may have a legitimate issue that they might be willing to resolve. They have the Emperor (1700 series) and the Emperor Jr (1800 series) listed with the exact same dimensions. Someone copied/pasted all the Emperor numbers over to the Emperor Jr. It seems that if you spoke to them that maybe you could say with all the confusing mis-information on their website you accidentally ordered the wrong knife and would like to do a direct swap. I don’t know if they’ll go for it because the little one is not on sale and the big one is. It’s a long shot, and you’ld have to be pretty slick to convince them that this is their fault, but might be worth a try, if you really want the smaller one.
Kavik
5531
Dec 21, 2018
DougFLA123Lol nice try, but no, i got the big one here
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 21, 2018
KavikOh ok, I thought you wanted the smaller one. My mistake! 😬
Kavik
5531
Dec 21, 2018
DougFLA123Lol i do want the smaller one. Let me clarify : I bought the clearance version of the Shogun on BladeHQ I bought the full size Emperor here recently. After getting it in hand, I'd rather have the smaller version of this one. But, I'm not ready to re-buy it again right away. I'm way over knife budget this month...between the Shogun and the ZDP-189 Bunka, that was almost $400 in impulse buys right before Christmas 🙊 If anyone reading this has a small version and wants to swap for the larger though, I'd be open to discussion 😉👍
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 21, 2018
KavikOhhhh, now I get it! You only needed to spell it out for me three times and speak very slowly for me to finally get it and think, why don’t I ever just mind my own business? 🤣
Kavik
5531
Dec 21, 2018
DougFLA123Lmao At least it's clear now 😜
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 23, 2018
KavikDo you own the Twosun TS68? I know @Gunnersmate2 does. Do you like it? I see it usually goes for around $40 at the eBay auctions. Is it just kind of a cute little novelty knife? It’s made with nice materials so it seems well worth $40. It almost looks too small to comfortably front flip it.
Kavik
5531
Dec 23, 2018
DougFLA123Nope, sorry, don't own that particular one I own a couple of their tiny knives though, and one lithe full size ones. I need to get more of their stuff to really say for sure, but they do seem to be worth way more than what you pay if you're patient and play the bidding game And LTK had a few of them tested, cache back positive for real D2 and M390, with good HRC's, which was surprising lol
Tspeel
8
Dec 24, 2018
DougFLA123Never heard of these knives before. you like em?
DougFLA123
1404
Dec 25, 2018
TspeelYes I do. Bestech makes some really nice knives. The action is great, the detent is usually very nice, perfect centering and they come very sharp out of the box. These are probably my three favorite Bestech knives. They are all over $100, however Bestech makes some really nice sub $50 knives too!