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Kavik
5531
May 4, 2018
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PigmonkeYDon't see where any luck is needed?
I don't get these comments on every single knife with a recurve 🙄
And this really isn't even close to being an extreme recurve.
Recurve blades have been around for centuries, yet people here act like they can't possible be sharpened. Like everyone in history used them till they got dull, then threw them away lol
-Maintain the factory edge diligently with a ceramic rod. -Use something like a Spyderco SharpMaker. -Buy a narrow whet stone. -Create an angled bevel off one side of your whet stone to make a narrow surface. -create an angled bevel on one side of a paper wheel on a grinder -Use one of the sides of your whet stone. -wrap some wet/dry paper around a dowel rod - glue some wet/dry paper along an edge of some 1/2-3/4" mdf or hardwood, or marble, or anything else you have that's hard and flat
All the technology we have nowadays, and everyone is so scared of the thought of sharpening something that people used to maintain with a rock in hand
This rant isn't aimed solely at you PigmonkeY, just really tired of seeing that sentiment every single time here, had to get it off my chest.
That said, if you have any recurves you've given up on and are going to throw away, feel free to send them my way for proper disposal 😁
Recurve blades have been around for centuries, yet people here act like they can't possible be sharpened. Like everyone in history used them till they got dull, then threw them away lol
-Maintain the factory edge diligently with a ceramic rod. -Use something like a Spyderco SharpMaker. -Buy a narrow whet stone. -Create an angled bevel off one side of your whet stone to make a narrow surface. -create an angled bevel on one side of a paper wheel on a grinder -Use one of the sides of your whet stone. -wrap some wet/dry paper around a dowel rod - glue some wet/dry paper along an edge of some 1/2-3/4" mdf or hardwood, or marble, or anything else you have that's hard and flat
All the technology we have nowadays, and everyone is so scared of the thought of sharpening something that people used to maintain with a rock in hand
This rant isn't aimed solely at you PigmonkeY, just really tired of seeing that sentiment every single time here, had to get it off my chest.
That said, if you have any recurves you've given up on and are going to throw away, feel free to send them my way for proper disposal 😁
PigmonkeY
1082
May 4, 2018
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KavikThat's because with regular sharpening tools like stones, you'll flatten out the recurve. Your only real option is sticks, and they take FOREVER. Easy to touch up, not so much to actually sharpen.
Nobody is beveling their 100 dollar waterstones to sharpen recurves, and that recurve is too tight even for the side of most stones. this is pretty much why short recruves just don't occur in historical blades.
Cool looking, but no purpose beyond frusterating you when it comes time to sharpen.
Nobody is beveling their 100 dollar waterstones to sharpen recurves, and that recurve is too tight even for the side of most stones. this is pretty much why short recruves just don't occur in historical blades.
Cool looking, but no purpose beyond frusterating you when it comes time to sharpen.
Kavik
5531
May 4, 2018
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PigmonkeYI understand the thinking behind it, but i just gave you a slew of ways to get around that. Ranging from practically free, to a fraction of the cost of one of your waterstones.
And before you say "nobody", I wouldn't think twice about beveling mine. Don't you put a small bevel on your edges after flattening anyway? I know I always do. No one said it has to be a 45° bevel. Cut in an eighth inch on the surface and take down the side to a quarter or half inch wide plane. It's nothing you'd ever notice missing over the life of the stone for the occasional recurve job. Unless you have super soft stones, or are using too much pressure. Or unless you're doing them all the time, in which case you'd invest in a specific set of narrow stones anyway.
I can do recurves on a stone, but i find it easier to be lazy and pull out the SharpMaker. And those "sticks" would have this one done in minutes
I disagree with the statement about the historical blades, but that's more than i have time to get into right now. Look at sharpening methods with finger stones, recurves, 'kris' blades, hook blades, etc.
And before you say "nobody", I wouldn't think twice about beveling mine. Don't you put a small bevel on your edges after flattening anyway? I know I always do. No one said it has to be a 45° bevel. Cut in an eighth inch on the surface and take down the side to a quarter or half inch wide plane. It's nothing you'd ever notice missing over the life of the stone for the occasional recurve job. Unless you have super soft stones, or are using too much pressure. Or unless you're doing them all the time, in which case you'd invest in a specific set of narrow stones anyway.
I can do recurves on a stone, but i find it easier to be lazy and pull out the SharpMaker. And those "sticks" would have this one done in minutes
I disagree with the statement about the historical blades, but that's more than i have time to get into right now. Look at sharpening methods with finger stones, recurves, 'kris' blades, hook blades, etc.
PigmonkeY
1082
May 4, 2018
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KavikYeesh, finger stones? I'm not made of time.
kris/karambit type blades are actually pretty easy with some wet/dry and a cardboard tube or wooden dowel. When the blade recurves back out though, you end up taking off the secondary "tip" at the apex of the belly.
As far as beveling my stones, i rarely ever flatten in the first place, but when I do, i actually whack a rounded bevel on the sides, but you end up taking off a lot of stone if you use those bevels or edges for actual sharpening.
Sharpening a regular blade profile is a 10 minute operation for the most part. A recurve is a PROJECT.
kris/karambit type blades are actually pretty easy with some wet/dry and a cardboard tube or wooden dowel. When the blade recurves back out though, you end up taking off the secondary "tip" at the apex of the belly.
As far as beveling my stones, i rarely ever flatten in the first place, but when I do, i actually whack a rounded bevel on the sides, but you end up taking off a lot of stone if you use those bevels or edges for actual sharpening.
Sharpening a regular blade profile is a 10 minute operation for the most part. A recurve is a PROJECT.
raafbloke
31
May 4, 2018
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PigmonkeYG'day Pigmonkey, With all due respect, mate, you are incorrect on several levels. Yes, you can, and I do, sharpen & hone all my recurves with a decent $30 ceramic rod with a handle. I also reprofile recurves, if they need it, on my Tormek wet-wheel system. Kukris are recurves, Ulus are a different kind of recurve; down through history there are hundreds of instances of recurve blades; get on line and take a look at the museum and rare knife collections. There's hundreds on the market today, mate, they simply wouldn't sell any if everyone had the opinion of recurves you do and if they were as difficult to sharpen as you claim they are. They are the most efficient, agressive slicers there are; with great 'sweet spots'. Some of the ancient ones were designed for human and animal decapitation! And those babies were generally sharpened with rocks. Take a closer look at the big wide world of knives inside and outside of the US. Got any recurves you don't like and can't resharpen? Send them to me; I'll pay the postage. Cheers, Bill Halliwell Hobart TAS.
PigmonkeY
1082
May 4, 2018
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raafblokeYou're mistaking what i am saying. Khuks and ulus are not short recurves. they're actually quite large radius (not that ulus are recurves at all). Not the same as a 4 inch pocket knife with a recurve in the middle of the blade.
I'd also challenge your assumption that recurves are somehow better at slicing or cutting than a straight blade. This totally depends on what you're cutting. You're certainly not using the recurve for chopping on a pocket knife (which is the reason they exist on other large blades). I find the issue with recurves to be that they dull up on the inside of the recurve first, and then you find yourself doing all the cutting on the belly anyways. Might as well have just gone with a straight blade.
As far as reprofiling on ceramic sticks? Again, i'm not made of time, I have other stuff to do, and sadly one of those things isn't dropping 800 dollars on a t8 for recurves. Wheels are just about your only option when it comes to expedient sharpening on a recurve, but also come along with their own problems.
I'd also challenge your assumption that recurves are somehow better at slicing or cutting than a straight blade. This totally depends on what you're cutting. You're certainly not using the recurve for chopping on a pocket knife (which is the reason they exist on other large blades). I find the issue with recurves to be that they dull up on the inside of the recurve first, and then you find yourself doing all the cutting on the belly anyways. Might as well have just gone with a straight blade.
As far as reprofiling on ceramic sticks? Again, i'm not made of time, I have other stuff to do, and sadly one of those things isn't dropping 800 dollars on a t8 for recurves. Wheels are just about your only option when it comes to expedient sharpening on a recurve, but also come along with their own problems.
raafbloke
31
May 4, 2018
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PigmonkeYOh, yes, I forgot. You are complaining about 'small' recurves... even easier to maintain a wicked edge and to sharpen. Ceramic rods don't take 'forever', but you can use diamond rods too if you like. The pros use a steel called a Multi-Cut by F. Dick. It's an expensive precision steel with a oval end profile. Just using the weight of the recurve knife will hone beautifully and be applying increasing degrees of pressure you move into sharpening. I got one cheap through a friendly butcher and for over a year it's been the best steel I've had in over 40 years! Works great on all other kinds of knives too. Cheers, mate, give recurves a chance and if not I'll cover the postage to Tasmania! Bill Halliwell
PigmonkeY
1082
May 4, 2018
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raafblokeMight be time to get an F dick steel and dig my super commander out of storage. Thanks for the info.
Kavik
5531
May 4, 2018
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PigmonkeYWell, there's a big difference between something not being doable, and someone not being willing to take the time to do it right.
What you said in regards to using paper on a dowel, if you're taking off the apex then it's a matter of user error i'm afraid. It can be done right with practice.
As for the ceramics and time....like I said, I could do this one on the sharpmaker in a matter of minutes, even if it needed a new bevel cut
@raafbloke thanks for the additional input 👍 I might have to pull out my tormek to try it some time. But I generally use that only for tools (plane blades, chisels, turning tools). I find other methods easier for me for knives. Even after tons of discussion on the tormek forum, and modifying the knife jigs, I still don't find it to be the most accurate or easiest way to keep an even bevel angle from heel to tip
@raafbloke thanks for the additional input 👍 I might have to pull out my tormek to try it some time. But I generally use that only for tools (plane blades, chisels, turning tools). I find other methods easier for me for knives. Even after tons of discussion on the tormek forum, and modifying the knife jigs, I still don't find it to be the most accurate or easiest way to keep an even bevel angle from heel to tip
PigmonkeY
1082
May 4, 2018
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KavikThat was my main issue with my T4 i had a few years ago. I couldn't get any precision out of the guide, and low angles posed issues on some blade profiles.
For a guided option, you might want to check out tsprof instead. I know you can absolutely get those to hold on to a rod.
For a guided option, you might want to check out tsprof instead. I know you can absolutely get those to hold on to a rod.
Kavik
5531
May 4, 2018
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PigmonkeYOne of these days I intend to build a platform for mine and ditch the jigs for knives, just haven't bothered yet.
So far a rod guided system is one sharpening method i haven't used. Always considering one, but can't stomach some of the prices. I'm already way into 4 figures in sharpening supplies 🙄
So far a rod guided system is one sharpening method i haven't used. Always considering one, but can't stomach some of the prices. I'm already way into 4 figures in sharpening supplies 🙄
PigmonkeY
1082
May 4, 2018
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KavikTSProf is probably the best guided manual system out there ATM, but yes, it's into the 800+ range as well....and you've gotta get it from russia.
Kavik
5531
May 4, 2018
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PigmonkeYThe only reason I even have the tormek is because I got it for a song at an estate sale
The old SuperGrind 2000 model, with a bunch of jigs and 235/250mm in the wheel after truing for $105 😎
At this point I think I'm around $300 into it after getting all the other jigs I needed for other tools, and the bench grinder mount kit so I can do rough profiling on a dry grinder first. One day I'll replace the wheel and upgrade to the quick release stainless shaft and still be under retail of a new unit lol
At this point I think I'm around $300 into it after getting all the other jigs I needed for other tools, and the bench grinder mount kit so I can do rough profiling on a dry grinder first. One day I'll replace the wheel and upgrade to the quick release stainless shaft and still be under retail of a new unit lol
PigmonkeY
1082
May 4, 2018
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Kavikjust stay away from the japanese waterstone wheel, that thing is trash.
PigmonkeY
1082
May 4, 2018
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KavikThe diamond wheel is already available on a specific model, it escapes me. They have a model specifically for knife sharpening now.
If you want to try some really cool diamond stones, you should check out the vanev bonded diamonds from gritomatic. Way better than the DMT stuff.
If you want to try some really cool diamond stones, you should check out the vanev bonded diamonds from gritomatic. Way better than the DMT stuff.
GoAndDo
49
May 7, 2018
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KavikI appreciate your comment. I am not super experienced with knives, and even less with all the different ways of sharpening them, so over the years I have avoided recurves because of having read what a pain they are to sharpen. I never really looked into it beyond that because I'm usually so busy with other things! You have opened my eyes to looking at some knives I was interested in before, but ignored because of the curved blade, so thank you again for PigmonkeY's post, and to yours, Kavik, for replying!
raafbloke
31
May 8, 2018
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PigmonkeYG'day Pigmonkey,
Thank you. I hope you didn't think my comments were too harsh, they were not intended to be so. I'm afraid I took out a bit of angst at the many, many people I've heard that have written off recurves because they "Can't be sharpened properly..." as most people say. I hear you when you say you've spent lots of $$ on sharpening... I joined that 'club' a long time ago while I was learning all about knive sharpening. I came from a commercial cooking background when I was a kid and had all kinds of trouble getting the knack of using round steels. Then, after changing jobs several times I always seemed to land in jobs that needed some kind of cutting tasks. Then I took up knife collecting and using. The bug had bitten and there was no turning back! I guess I've spent thousands over the years trying out every conceivable sharpening; honing and stropping tool/system out there. But that's cool. I've got over 100+ knives and they are all users, ranging from 1800s surgical scalpels up to my old military sword that I 'liberated'.
I've had a T4 unit for some time now and I found the 'stropping' wheel virtually useless because it's too close to the larger stone wheel. After a lot of effort I got a longer spindle shaft that allows me to put any other kind of wheel on the end, and the stropping wheel, so now I can do my longer blades. You are right about the variability of the knife jigs but I've found that by trial and error how you hold the jig on the horizontal guide does make a huge difference in the effectiveness of the jig and therefore the quality of the finished edge. I only use my T4 about twice a year because I'm a honing and stropping fanatic. I'm retired so I do have time but I've got honing and stropping down to a quick, almost automatic reflex now. Of course, with so many different steels and alloys out there just finding the right approach for each knife can be a pain until you discover the blades good and bad points.
Thanks for your posts and input. Let's keep in touch, I'm nearly 70 but I'm learning something everyday. Cheers, Bill Halliwell
P.S. Like wise to the other posters on this subject thanks for your comments. I ditched Facebook so these forums are my only exposure to the knife community now. BH
PigmonkeY
1082
May 8, 2018
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raafblokeNo worries, I didn't interpret what you said as harsh. Recurves are a traditional point of contention between knife snobs, no difference here :P
My sharpening setup is really optimized for traditional straight blades, which makes recurves kind of a chore, and personally, I have really never found enough advantage to any recurve to justify the increased hassle on my end.
I am also very into stropping, and recently went to some nanocloth with CBN compound. If you haven't tried at least CBN compound, you owe it to yourself. You can practically sharpen on a strop with it.
My sharpening setup is really optimized for traditional straight blades, which makes recurves kind of a chore, and personally, I have really never found enough advantage to any recurve to justify the increased hassle on my end.
I am also very into stropping, and recently went to some nanocloth with CBN compound. If you haven't tried at least CBN compound, you owe it to yourself. You can practically sharpen on a strop with it.
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