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Morrowind542
127
Mar 27, 2018
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Is this another one of those "damascus" knives that are actually just VG10 clad in pretty but useless pattern welded steels? If so, they need to say so up front. If not, I want to know how they got an odd number of layers by folding steel.
xc_racer
2
Mar 27, 2018
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Morrowind542Easy to get an odd number of layers. Start with a single piece in the middle, and fold around it. Tada! Odd number of layers!
Kavik
5531
Mar 27, 2018
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xc_racerThat's his point... It would have to be a "damascus" clad core. Which it is, you can see the core clearly in the pics
But, I'm sure it's not vg10, or they would be saying so. Even the manufacturers website doesn't say what the actual steel used is. Which is......scary. Throw in their over the top marketing/gimmicky claims......I wouldn't drop my money on this
P.S. Had a good chuckle at this article on their site : https://brigadekitchen.com/blogs/brigaden-blog/the-santoku-knife-and-why-its-versatility-is-perfect "The people sampling our knives have used it to butcher chickens, cut T-Bones, finely chop an immense amount of veggies." -mystery steel santoku vs bones?
There's more, but I'll let you draw your own conclusions
But, I'm sure it's not vg10, or they would be saying so. Even the manufacturers website doesn't say what the actual steel used is. Which is......scary. Throw in their over the top marketing/gimmicky claims......I wouldn't drop my money on this
P.S. Had a good chuckle at this article on their site : https://brigadekitchen.com/blogs/brigaden-blog/the-santoku-knife-and-why-its-versatility-is-perfect "The people sampling our knives have used it to butcher chickens, cut T-Bones, finely chop an immense amount of veggies." -mystery steel santoku vs bones?
There's more, but I'll let you draw your own conclusions
Kavik
5531
Mar 27, 2018
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xc_racerModern damascus is just a generic name for pattern welded steels. Can be made from a number of different steels.
In simplest terms you forge weld 2 different steels together, hammer them out, fold over and repeat. Think of it like folding a piece of paper over and over, you'll always have an even number of layers.
Some people do make knives straight from 'damascus' billets, but it's not useful given that we're in modern times where there are decent monosteels
More often they'll do it 'clad' or 'san mai' style. Take a strong monosteel core, and a piece of damascus twice its size, fold the damascus around the core steel like a taco, then forge weld those together
If you look at the pictures here, as you get to the cutting edge you'll be able to see where the damascus cladding stops and the rest is a solid steel
Now that I think about it, 67 layers they state on their site doesn't work out even counting the core steel. Folds: 1,2,4,8,16,32,64 Plus core: 65
In simplest terms you forge weld 2 different steels together, hammer them out, fold over and repeat. Think of it like folding a piece of paper over and over, you'll always have an even number of layers.
Some people do make knives straight from 'damascus' billets, but it's not useful given that we're in modern times where there are decent monosteels
More often they'll do it 'clad' or 'san mai' style. Take a strong monosteel core, and a piece of damascus twice its size, fold the damascus around the core steel like a taco, then forge weld those together
If you look at the pictures here, as you get to the cutting edge you'll be able to see where the damascus cladding stops and the rest is a solid steel
Now that I think about it, 67 layers they state on their site doesn't work out even counting the core steel. Folds: 1,2,4,8,16,32,64 Plus core: 65
Morrowind542
127
Mar 28, 2018
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KavikThis exactly.
While I'm not opposed to the san mai style, it really should be stated up front that that's what they're doing, not pulling a bait and switch by calling it damascus, which is FAR more expensive. As in multiple hundreds of dollars more, at least in the case of Damasteel.
And yes, 67 layers is bullshit. Anytime you fold anything, you get 2^n layers where n is the number of folds. EDIT: Upon thinking about it, you actually get m*2^n where m is the number of starting layers. 67 layers still doesn't work out, but I just wanted to correct my math.
While I'm not opposed to the san mai style, it really should be stated up front that that's what they're doing, not pulling a bait and switch by calling it damascus, which is FAR more expensive. As in multiple hundreds of dollars more, at least in the case of Damasteel.
And yes, 67 layers is bullshit. Anytime you fold anything, you get 2^n layers where n is the number of folds. EDIT: Upon thinking about it, you actually get m*2^n where m is the number of starting layers. 67 layers still doesn't work out, but I just wanted to correct my math.
Kavik
5531
Mar 29, 2018
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JaggiYa know, I guess I couldn't say for sure.... But I always assumed the mass produced stuff is still folded. Seems to me that it's the working of the metal and hammering it out that causes the layers to bond. Not sure that just heating super thin sheets would do it?
Either way, they claim this knife is "Made from the best quality Damascus steel the world can find"....to me that shouldn't imply anything other than traditionally hand forged. Then again, they also claim things like "Our Santoku is made with 67 layers of Damascus steel, meaning not only is it easy on the eyes, but the blade stays sharper longer." which implies the damascus IS the cutting edge, which we know isn't the case, and therefore has nothing to do with the edge retention
Either way, nothing gives me the impression they're making anything here themselves. From what I gather, it's a brother and sister company started up just last year, with no history in knife making or manufacturing of any sort, who decided they want to provide people with 1 knife and 3 pans.... I don't get it, it feels kinda weird. But again, without handling one, who's to say?
Pretty bold claims though, about their knife rivaling some of the best in Japan. Sorry, but that part i don't believe for a second
Either way, they claim this knife is "Made from the best quality Damascus steel the world can find"....to me that shouldn't imply anything other than traditionally hand forged. Then again, they also claim things like "Our Santoku is made with 67 layers of Damascus steel, meaning not only is it easy on the eyes, but the blade stays sharper longer." which implies the damascus IS the cutting edge, which we know isn't the case, and therefore has nothing to do with the edge retention
Either way, nothing gives me the impression they're making anything here themselves. From what I gather, it's a brother and sister company started up just last year, with no history in knife making or manufacturing of any sort, who decided they want to provide people with 1 knife and 3 pans.... I don't get it, it feels kinda weird. But again, without handling one, who's to say?
Pretty bold claims though, about their knife rivaling some of the best in Japan. Sorry, but that part i don't believe for a second
harrisonh
51
Mar 31, 2018
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Morrowind542I HIGHLY doubt it's even VG10. notice how they skillfully avoid answering what type steel it is?
Kavik
5531
Mar 31, 2018
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harrisonhVG10 is what i was told straight out in an email from one of the owners of the company (though, still no reply when I asked about the discrepancy in the layer count)
It is now listed on the product page on their site as well, though I swear it wasn't there before I asked them
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