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Showing 1 of 1541 conversations about:
chris3791
27
Jun 4, 2017
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This is the second time where Norde and UK keycaps are on the same bundle! Being in the UK, I have twice been deterred to join the drop because it so expensive and a lot of wasted keycaps. If this is now standard practice, I'll just stop visiting Massdrop for new keycaps because it can only lead to too much disappointment.
CargoCult
59
Jun 4, 2017
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chris3791Me too. I've joined as I can't resist, but I hope future drops will use the same uk packs as the Oblivion SA drop that's coming soon.
Oblotzky
2870
Oblotzky
Jun 4, 2017
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CargoCultI'm sorry to tell you that the kits for Oblivion have changed a bit, especially in regards to international stuff :(
The reasoning behind a NorDeUK kit over UK + NorDe kits is, what makes UK special that they get to be a standalone kit? It's a group buy, a group effort to get things done, and a NorDeUK kit has the best chances of getting international done, especially since both Carbon and Oblivion have two NorDeUK ktis due to two alpha colors.
I have not yet decided on this matter 100%, but it is very possible that SA Oblivion will have two NorDeUK kits as the sole international support, with the difference that AltGraph keys are part of the regular/specialty mods.
The reasoning behind a NorDeUK kit over UK + NorDe kits is, what makes UK special that they get to be a standalone kit? It's a group buy, a group effort to get things done, and a NorDeUK kit has the best chances of getting international done, especially since both Carbon and Oblivion have two NorDeUK ktis due to two alpha colors.
I have not yet decided on this matter 100%, but it is very possible that SA Oblivion will have two NorDeUK kits as the sole international support, with the difference that AltGraph keys are part of the regular/specialty mods.
Cakirrama
272
Jun 4, 2017
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chris3791The Norde kit lead you to disappointment, when the whole set is expensive and the drop points seem to have not progressed past the initial 15xx purchase orders? Irrational at best, feel free to stay away from Massdrop if that creates too much disappointment, as I am sure they'll survive without you, given how popular the drop is x))
dsaf
130
Jun 4, 2017
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OblotzkyFollowing that logic, please merge NorDeUK with ANSI. It's a group effort, right? What makes UK special is 70 people vs 100 people in DE, DK, ES, FI, IT, NO and SE combined: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/37451
Cakirrama
272
Jun 4, 2017
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Those_guysI must admit that I had to look up that word. +1 for expanding my vocabulary </3
With regards to the comment, I suppose there is some truth to that, but irrationality is a killer, more so than diabetes .
CargoCult
59
Jun 4, 2017
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OblotzkyI totally agree with the Group effort/buy mentality. The below is an idea:
There's 47 different keys in the NORDEUK kit (54 including the duplicate Returns/Alt Gr/Left shift) - of which only 9 are needed for the UK.
There are only 3 common keys between the layouts (Return/Alt Gr/Left shift).
Assume the common keys are split out into an ISO set, that leaves 6 additional alphas for UK. These could be added to the standard alphas (sorry ANSI master race ;) !), leaving a NorDe (maybe even AZERTY) kit.
This would would (pretty much) guarantee UK would hit MOQ, everyone gets a few keys they won't use and (hopefully) wouldn't increase the cost of the base alphas too much (I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm probably wrong).
I'd be much more willing to join a drop if I knew the UK was going to hit MOQ.
Thanks for all the effort and work on the designs/organisation etc etc. Keep up the awesome work and I can't wait for Oblivion!!
There's 47 different keys in the NORDEUK kit (54 including the duplicate Returns/Alt Gr/Left shift) - of which only 9 are needed for the UK.
There are only 3 common keys between the layouts (Return/Alt Gr/Left shift).
Assume the common keys are split out into an ISO set, that leaves 6 additional alphas for UK. These could be added to the standard alphas (sorry ANSI master race ;) !), leaving a NorDe (maybe even AZERTY) kit.
This would would (pretty much) guarantee UK would hit MOQ, everyone gets a few keys they won't use and (hopefully) wouldn't increase the cost of the base alphas too much (I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm probably wrong).
I'd be much more willing to join a drop if I knew the UK was going to hit MOQ.
Thanks for all the effort and work on the designs/organisation etc etc. Keep up the awesome work and I can't wait for Oblivion!!
Anakey
69
Jun 4, 2017
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chris3791 the reasoning behind bunching them up is if there were seperate it may have resulted in in one of the kits not reaching MOQ, though it does suck for those of us in UK when we only use a few of the keys unlike e.g. DE that use about half or more of the kit. best bet would be to see if you could buy the extra keys from another euro user that they are not using, given the extra enter and alt keys it should be posible to split if they have no intention of selling the kit further down the line.
climbalima
269
Jun 4, 2017
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OblotzkyI think for the next drop you should have a different kit for every language. That way we can stop having these discussions when only a few get made.
b9nign
34
Jun 4, 2017
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Oblotzky> The reasoning behind a NorDeUK kit over UK + NorDe kits is, what makes UK special that they get to be a standalone kit? It's a group buy, a group effort to get things done, and a NorDeUK kit has the best chances of getting international done, especially since both Carbon and Oblivion have two NorDeUK ktis due to two alpha colors.
Brits are so used to having special exceptions and rules to the rest of Europe.
Brits are so used to having special exceptions and rules to the rest of Europe.
b9nign
34
Jun 4, 2017
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dsaf> What makes UK special is 70 people vs 100 people in DE, DK, ES, FI, IT, NO and SE combined: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/37451
$6 vs $30 awesome argument.
$6 vs $30 awesome argument.
OracleKev
245
Jun 5, 2017
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OblotzkyHi,
I would strongly recommend against simply combining UK and NORDE since data shows it reduces demand overall.
Currently SA Carbon NORDEUK attach is 3.9% (42+5 / 1202).
/dev/tty UK+International attach was 9.8% (74+106 / 1836).
It's not exactly apples to apples since ISO Enter is not part of the base kit and Carbon audience might be more casual enthusiasts, but the numbers seem to carry a lot of significance.
Also, SA Oblivion has strong (more evenly divided) support in both Oblivion and Hagomoro alphas, so with reduced overall volume, both kits could get into trouble.
You probably are thinking about this day and night, and considered thousands of scenarios, so I feel silly providing this feedback. But I never thought Carbon and Yuri would have this issue, so I think it's worth it to give it.
BTW, I participated in GMK Oblivion (White+Gray) and would very much like SA Oblivion made.
Vigrith
4081
Jun 5, 2017
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dsafhttps://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-k-bares-miami-dolch-dsa-custom-keycaps
UK - 29. ANSI (base minus ISO) - 861.
This is why your argument is redundant. UK already gets preferential treatment with GMK having most its keys included in the base kit. You're not special, 70 vs 100 people means absolutely nothing, in the grand scheme of things ISO int (incl. UK) is only offered because the community wants to be inclusive, from a business and profit standpoint 0x0 is still 0. Doesn't matter if you're more than the DE/DK/FI/etc. layouts put together, you're still microscopic and if you want to succeed then you have to help each other instead of sounding like an insolent child insinuating you're better than them.
If you rather not help each other then eventually ISO kits might stop being offered altogether, I guess that's not really what people want to achieve when they ask for the different layouts/languages to all be separated but that's what will end up happening, it's very obvious.
UK - 29. ANSI (base minus ISO) - 861.
This is why your argument is redundant. UK already gets preferential treatment with GMK having most its keys included in the base kit. You're not special, 70 vs 100 people means absolutely nothing, in the grand scheme of things ISO int (incl. UK) is only offered because the community wants to be inclusive, from a business and profit standpoint 0x0 is still 0. Doesn't matter if you're more than the DE/DK/FI/etc. layouts put together, you're still microscopic and if you want to succeed then you have to help each other instead of sounding like an insolent child insinuating you're better than them.
If you rather not help each other then eventually ISO kits might stop being offered altogether, I guess that's not really what people want to achieve when they ask for the different layouts/languages to all be separated but that's what will end up happening, it's very obvious.
nnc-tlb
86
Jun 5, 2017
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Vigrithnot special ?
with this logic: ANSI is not special !
help each other ? with this logic: merge all kits into one huge !
breaking up into smaller kits is kinda useless. ok, MD or whoever can state a low price for a product. but with a base kit for 29.99 or 39.99 or whatever you can do sh!t.
but most people buying 3-4 kits for 100-150 bucks to populate a keyboard. a huge portion of people buying 300-400 bucks into this.
so why breaking up into smaller kits ? The trend with all this TKL/60/40/etc. in the last years may be the logic foundation to split up a keycap set.
But with time more whining happens, like "I need to spend 69.99 bucks for kit xyz because I need the 1u shift key ..." With all this keyboard form factors and layouts it`s getting harder the make consent on the keycap kits. SP has to do more handling ! MD has to do more handling ! senseless ! if it is only one huge kit, much human labor can be avoided !
PS. I'm on a ANSI 100%+13keys, not the best situation for custom keycaps.
help each other ? with this logic: merge all kits into one huge !
breaking up into smaller kits is kinda useless. ok, MD or whoever can state a low price for a product. but with a base kit for 29.99 or 39.99 or whatever you can do sh!t.
but most people buying 3-4 kits for 100-150 bucks to populate a keyboard. a huge portion of people buying 300-400 bucks into this.
so why breaking up into smaller kits ? The trend with all this TKL/60/40/etc. in the last years may be the logic foundation to split up a keycap set.
But with time more whining happens, like "I need to spend 69.99 bucks for kit xyz because I need the 1u shift key ..." With all this keyboard form factors and layouts it`s getting harder the make consent on the keycap kits. SP has to do more handling ! MD has to do more handling ! senseless ! if it is only one huge kit, much human labor can be avoided !
PS. I'm on a ANSI 100%+13keys, not the best situation for custom keycaps.
Cakirrama
272
Jun 5, 2017
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nnc-tlb" PS. I'm on a ANSI 100%+13keys, not the best situation for custom keycaps. "
Really? That has to be heaven compared to how much they shaft ISO users. Stop complaining jebus keebus.
Really? That has to be heaven compared to how much they shaft ISO users. Stop complaining jebus keebus.
nnc-tlb
86
Jun 5, 2017
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CakirramaI'm not complaining - I'm advocating for ONE SET FOR ALL - even if it means I have to pay more !
Getting 13 additional keycaps sounds easy, but a) the sculpted profile doesn't help b) somehow the legends should make sense
Best situation would be a standard 60% or aTKL, but that is not my cup of tea.
Getting 13 additional keycaps sounds easy, but a) the sculpted profile doesn't help b) somehow the legends should make sense
Best situation would be a standard 60% or aTKL, but that is not my cup of tea.
climbalima
269
Jun 5, 2017
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nnc-tlbOne large set works well for gmk, but with SP you can afford to split up the kits. I think that we have had drops with kits that worked better, but I think that splitting the alphas from mods is the way to go when it comes to SP sets(I am biased as a planck user) With one giant kit anybody with a 40%, ergo layout, and int layout will be boned. A tkl set for carbon costs less than a full kit from gmk, and for most buyers that's what they want.
mik1
4
Jan 12, 2019
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OblotzkyThe price for the NorDeUK kit was only about 4,000 USD. Maybe on the next Carbon or other nice black on white release, I'll just place the order for those 59 kits which is the minimum order quantity ..
Or maybe 7-8 people can split, 500 USD per person.
Total absence of good kits on the market. I'm in it for the Swedish layout aspect of NorDeUK.
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