CCCP Heritage CP-7021 Automatic Watch Discussions | Drop

Jul 23, 2018

"A nod to another era..." and a homage to an inhumane regime that killed millions of its citizens and repressed many hundred thousands more (and deprived all the rest of them of basic human and civil rights).
Eagerly awaiting an opportunity to buy some "Third Reich" watches here. Once North Korea is liberated from under the Kim regime, we'll need a way "to be a part of history" in that part of the world too, and thus we'll need watches that say, "The Wisdom of the Kims", or, for short, "Juche."
Way to go, Massdrop!
Western world hypnotized by some skilled propagandists much?

mattf222

Jul 23, 2018

keybersIt's understandable why you would want to discourage aesthetic associations to the Soviet Union, but remember that is literally something the nazis aspired to do (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art).

vlvtshrk

Jul 23, 2018

keybersLet's hope you own nothing made in China.

Jul 23, 2018

mattf222Nice attempt at whataboutism, but your analogy is false, as the art that the Nazis aspired to suppress wasn't something that glamorized hate.
As I said, I'm all for having "CCCP" watches here, but they must be balanced by some "Third Reich" watches, too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_chic needs its due representation on Massdrop!

Jul 23, 2018

vlvtshrkWell, I stopped short of buying a watch by Beijing Watch Company that had the Tiananmen Square symbolic on it. In life in general, it might be impossible not to have dealings with jerks, but it takes a whole kind of special to label yourself with something that glamorizes being a jerk.

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vlvtshrk

Jul 23, 2018

keybersHow did the USSR glorify hate?

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Jul 23, 2018

vlvtshrkLike this, for example: https://www.google.com/search?q=уничтожим+кулака+как+класс&source=lnms&tbm=isch
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization)

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Jul 23, 2018

keybersEh. I think you're reading into it a bit much. It's not like wearing a watch that is inspired by the USSR automatically makes one a communist in support of the mass starvation of Russia.

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Jul 23, 2018

BlythyNo, but you have made a subtle step to acceptance of things associated with it. There is this thing called "cultural diplomacy".
And once again, try to picture yourself writing this same comment about "reading too much into it" if Massdrop dropped some Nazi chic. Not the same thing to you? Well, this very fact of you making a distinction here means you've been nudged toward something.
You might want to read this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands

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Jul 23, 2018

keybersIf there was an original SS officers coat that came up for sale I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Hugo Boss knew what he was doing. (/s) However I don't believe the intention of the watch's design is some ulterior motive to allow acceptance of historical horror and bloodshed. It's "homage". It's not a replica of something worn by Stalin himself. Also thanks for the book suggestion, I might check it out.

martygeeoz

Jul 23, 2018

keybersTry some chamomile tea, its very calming.

Jul 23, 2018

BlythyWell, I was unable to buy a watch that otherwise hit all the sweet spots for me, but that was associated with the Tiananmen crackdown...
The intention of the company (that appears to be based in Hong Kong) might not have been expressly to allow acceptance—it's just a response to the same (or similar) segment of the market that buys Nazi chic. But the end result is, unfortunately, a greater openness to things that the successor of this regime does.
Plus, I just think it might not be a bad thing to remind potential buyers about the importance of symbolic "hygiene". If Massdrop is not able to maintain it on its own...

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Jul 23, 2018

keybersThere's an option to buy a unique watch. You can take it or leave it. Symbolic "hygiene" is of little concern to MD I believe. Most companies recognise the value of bulk selling and pay MD to do a drop. If it was Nazi propaganda or extremely literal discriminatory material, they'd have a second thought about it. But it's not. It's inspired and inoffensive to most people in the hypersensitive year of 2018.

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Jul 23, 2018

BlythyI will repeat: The very fact that you are unable to make a distinction between this and Nazi propaganda means you've been had. This is why this is "inoffensive to most people." Most people need to be educated about this.

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Jul 23, 2018

Mate come on. Of course you can distinguish a watch which pays verrrrryyyyyy slight homage to the Soviets from actual Nazi 'burn the Jews' propaganda. You are literally saying that a black suit could be associated with an SS Officer and therefore promotes Socialism. If you are this easily offended by a watch that in no way at all promotes the messages and actions of Stalin, you need to check yourself.

Jul 23, 2018

BlythyThis drop is a direct equivalent to a watch that would say "The Third Reich" on its face.
I'm not "literally saying that a black suit could be associated..." — the equivalent would be me bashing everything in the color red.
You really need to sort out your analogies.

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Jul 23, 2018

keybersAh shit. Yes you are right on those counts. But, the description just says "bla bla bla hearkens to a Soviet aesthetic". All I'm saying is because something is vaguely reminiscent of Soviet era design, doesn't mean it is vaguely reminiscent of Soviet era conduct/practice and/or historical occurrences. Just like how a QANTAS plane bearing Aboriginal livery doesn't promote or excuse what was done to Aboriginal Australians.

Jul 23, 2018

keybersIf you thinking this way, you should be disgusted to buy anything "Made in USA". Millions of Indians were destroyed https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/162804, millions of slaves died on plantations https://www.gilderlehrman.org/content/historical-context-facts-about-slave-trade-and-slavery, Agent Orange and so on. But you continue to be proud of the conquest and the economic power of America. So who is the victim of propaganda here?

Jul 23, 2018

BlythyWell, it isn't vaguely reminiscent of Soviet era design (TBH, most Soviet-era design that wasn't hopelessly non-functional was a rip-off of Western designs). It puts the name of a repressive state front and center.
You once again have your analogies backwards. A Qantas plane with aboriginal livery celebrates those who have fallen victim to a crime, not the perpetrators of a crime. USSR as a state was a perpetrator of countless crimes. This watch is paying homage to it, i. e., expresses respect and admiration for this entity.

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Jul 23, 2018

su100Ah, the classic whataboutism :) Again, your analogies are all wrong. Modern US of A are not proud of this part of their history, have made amends to the Indian tribes, introduced economic incentives to which everyone who has Indian blood can lay claim, etc. As for the slaves that died on plantations, this is precisely the reason why placing the Confederate flag in front of a building, or, say, on a face of a watch would be a very questionable decision. The Confederation had slavery as its ideology, which it fought for. This is why the Confederation as a state is not currently being "paid homage to" (celebrated, afforded respect, etc.)—or at least those who try to restore it to respectability are, thankfully, (so far) on the fringes of the society. The ideology of the Soviet Union was similarly inhumane. You don't put "CCCP" on a watch in the same way you don't put the Confederate flag on a watch.

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Jul 23, 2018

keybersWhataboutism lol A very stupid way to end the discussion.

Your answer means that in the USA the Confederate symbols are no longer used?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_display_of_the_Confederate_flag#/media/File:Jefferson_Davis_Park_2-4_(28233582279).jpg Questionable decision, a? But why didn't you identify the image of the Confederate flag with the Nazi flag? If you justify some crimes by the following acts, why do you deny forgiveness to others? In the history of every state there are both great crimes and an occasion for pride.

Jul 23, 2018

su100Well, _su_100, in the same way that the appearance of the Confederate symbols have drawn a lot of flak, I am now expressing my criticism of the questionable decision by Massdrop to drop this watch.
> why didn't you identify the image of the Confederate flag with the Nazi flag?
A classic trick of false logic. I'm not writing a dissertation on these analogies, I'm posting a comment on the Internet, so not every comment of mine contains all analogies I could possibly make. Here, yes, the Confederate flag is equivalent to the Nazi flag, you happy?
> If you justify some crimes by the following acts, why do you deny forgiveness to others?
Dear _su_100, whose language betrays a mind that normally thinks in Russian, I'm not forgiving the Third Reich, the Soviet Union, or the Confederation, because all of these entities disintegrated in the attempt to defend their ideology; they never overcame this ideology. So I'm not affording different treatments in similar sets of circumstances.
Congratulations on the successful attempt to lead the discussion into the bog of having to shoot down your false arguments. You followed the "metodichka" well.

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Jul 23, 2018

keybersDear keybers, How can my logic be false if you just admitted my truth? Is Thomas Jefferson, the slave owner, who helped to create the United States overcame his ideology? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/18/america-complicated-history-slavery-thomas-jefferson-monticello-virginia Yes, I usually think in Russian, but I can also read and write in English. And do you know other Russian words except "metodichka" (I never read something like this, I'm just interested in history) used by russophobic propagandists when they have no any arguments? Stop using stamps. As for me, I do not have anything with the flag of the Confederation, CCCP, modern Russia or Nazi Germany, but I have a Zippo lighter with the flag of the USA. And I'm not worried about this.

Jul 23, 2018

su100Use the word "clichés" instead of "stamps"; someone who doesn't know any language beside English will not be able to understand what you mean. So, see, I know not only the word "metodichka", but also the word "shtampy", and many other words. Also, please do not use the cliché "Russiphobic" where I have not even touched on Russia as an entity (though that could be a topic unto itself); but it speaks volumes that you feel accosted as a Russian where there is criticism of the Soviet Union... But back to the topic at hand:
No, I didn't "admit" (confirm) your point of view, because it could not be further from the truth.
If the state, as an entity, survives a social upheaval and is able to transform itself, it means that it is healthy at its core and has been built on correct principles. This is not negated by the fact that the person or persons who formulated those principles could be imperfect and were unable to see that their actions ran counter to the ideas that they espoused. Jumping from a discussion of one entity to a discussion of different entities (people who play a role in a history of a state _are_ not that state) is false logic. Entities like the Confederation, the Third Reich, and the Soviet Union did not survive a change in ideology; that means that they were at their cores incompatible with the ideas of human rights etc.
So, once again, a watch that says "USSR" is indistinguishable from a watch that says "The Third Reich" or "the Confederation".
Massdrop should really see if Thor Steinar would be amenable to doing a drop here.

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