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tony.hill
96
Jul 23, 2018
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This watch is coming in for a lot of stick because of the CCCP logo and that's fair enough on the one hand but not everything associated with the Soviet regime is bad. As far as WW2 is concerned the Red Army beat the shit out the Nazis all the way from Stalingrad back to Berlin. Without their input a lot more Americans, Britons and other allied nations personnel would have lost their lives. As far as the watch itself goes I would think it is Chinese at heart. If you want a truly Russian watch go with a Vostok or for better quality something with a Poljot movement in it.
keybers
194
Jul 23, 2018
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tony.hill> As far as WW2 is concerned the Red Army beat the shit out the Nazis all the way from Stalingrad back to Berlin. Without their input a lot more Americans, Britons and other allied nations personnel would have lost their lives
You need to read up on your history. There wouldn't have been a WW2 if not for the Soviet Union. The WW2 started with the USSR and Nazi Germany entering a pact (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact) where they agreed to divide Europe between themselves. The WW2 started with the USSR and Nazi Germany _jointly_ attacking Poland, dividing it up and holding _joint_ parades... Having become emboldened (and having absorbed some resources from the occupied Poland), Germany then turned on its erstwhile partner. The USSR then was forced to start putting the genie back in the bottle (though wouldn't be able to do it without the Allies opening the Second Front), but it didn't pass up on the opportunity to then actually subject half of Europe to its will; attempts of these nations to free themselves of this "soft" grip were brutally crushed. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
You need to read up on your history. There wouldn't have been a WW2 if not for the Soviet Union. The WW2 started with the USSR and Nazi Germany entering a pact (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact) where they agreed to divide Europe between themselves. The WW2 started with the USSR and Nazi Germany _jointly_ attacking Poland, dividing it up and holding _joint_ parades... Having become emboldened (and having absorbed some resources from the occupied Poland), Germany then turned on its erstwhile partner. The USSR then was forced to start putting the genie back in the bottle (though wouldn't be able to do it without the Allies opening the Second Front), but it didn't pass up on the opportunity to then actually subject half of Europe to its will; attempts of these nations to free themselves of this "soft" grip were brutally crushed. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
tony.hill
96
Jul 23, 2018
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keybersI'm well aware of the Molotov Ribbentrop non aggression pact which was to divide Poland not Europe between themselves. Stalin was in no position to face Germany and used the pact both to form a buffer and make preparations for the coming fight which historians generally agree he knew was coming. I suggest you read Anthony Beevor's magnificent work "Stalingrad" to see what a fantastic job the Red Army did there and from thence all the way back to Berlin. I repeat many more Allied troops would have died without their efforts. To say there would have been no WW2 without the Soviet Union is risible. Also please don't quote wikipedia to me. There's some good information and some not so. I've read history all my life and prefer to take a World view. You wouldn't be from the US by any chance?
planb10113
352
Jul 23, 2018
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tony.hillI second the suggestion of reading "Stalingrad" by Antony Beevor. Extremely well written and meticulously researched book. All of his work is thorough and gives the reader a multifaceted view of the conflict and battles. You're spot on, Tony.
keybers
194
Jul 23, 2018
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tony.hillI'm not from the U.S. Don't know if it helps you in judging how to respond to my comments.
Wikipedia links are shortcuts, as we, of course, will not be able to do a full academic discussion in Massdrop comments. If you are interested in history, maybe you'll find this book interesting - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands - (it's a link to an article about the book, not an article treating a certain historical subject; from there you can do a search on Amazon or whatever, if you are interested). It provides an actual big-picture view.
Anyways, in throwing Germany out of its borders, the USSR was just fighting for survival; seeing it as an act of helping the Allies is what's risible. Once the Red Army was out of its borders, it was on a mission of subduing involuntary subjects. Nothing in this is even remotely altruistic—at the first stage, it's a fight for its own survival, and at the second, it's a conquest that is made even more cynical by the fact it's been called "liberation". Besides, the "fantastic job" you are talking about was achieved by the state treating its soldiers as cannon fodder. Among other things, through this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops. A number of soldiers and officers that were unfortunate enough to be taken captive were persecuted after the war, together with their families; because they, sort of, might have fallen under the influence of a foreign culture. People who were mobilized where sent into battle sometimes armed with not much more than a shovel.
This state was an inhumane destruction machine all of its history; once it tried to liberalize itself, it collapsed.
Wikipedia links are shortcuts, as we, of course, will not be able to do a full academic discussion in Massdrop comments. If you are interested in history, maybe you'll find this book interesting - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands - (it's a link to an article about the book, not an article treating a certain historical subject; from there you can do a search on Amazon or whatever, if you are interested). It provides an actual big-picture view.
Anyways, in throwing Germany out of its borders, the USSR was just fighting for survival; seeing it as an act of helping the Allies is what's risible. Once the Red Army was out of its borders, it was on a mission of subduing involuntary subjects. Nothing in this is even remotely altruistic—at the first stage, it's a fight for its own survival, and at the second, it's a conquest that is made even more cynical by the fact it's been called "liberation". Besides, the "fantastic job" you are talking about was achieved by the state treating its soldiers as cannon fodder. Among other things, through this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops. A number of soldiers and officers that were unfortunate enough to be taken captive were persecuted after the war, together with their families; because they, sort of, might have fallen under the influence of a foreign culture. People who were mobilized where sent into battle sometimes armed with not much more than a shovel.
This state was an inhumane destruction machine all of its history; once it tried to liberalize itself, it collapsed.
tony.hill
96
Jul 23, 2018
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keybersYour view is one I cannot share. It doesn't recognize the enormous input the Red Army put in to defeating Nazi Germany whatever the motives of the regime.
static.overdub
554
Jul 23, 2018
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tony.hillThe fact that there is apparently no qc at cccp (see previous kashalot “56879” drop) should be reason enough to avoid.
jceaser
359
Jul 23, 2018
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tony.hillSince Putin is taking over one election at a time, I might just have to get one of these to fit in to the crowd.
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