CEntrance Reserve Series Speaker Cablessearch

CEntrance Reserve Series Speaker Cables

CEntrance Reserve Series Speaker Cables

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Okay, so I'm one of those people with an audio system in my car worth about $1000 yet even I'm struggling to find a reason for the cost of these cables. I know these aren't RCA cables, but seriously, there's very little sound quality difference between the $5 set I originally had and the $30 RCA cable I have now. I can't imagine that spending $100+ would be any different. If you want better quality and more SPL, you can get higher gauge wire but without the requisite equipment you don't even need that.
If I wear a turban and play my clarinet, will these cables sway rhythmically to the music?
At last, they are shipping! Can wait to get them. To the any wire can do it crowd: I respect your views and opinions, but to trash someone or something because you don't believe or trust it, it's not a free pass to be disrespectful. I'm willing to pay for a 100 USD copper wire cable for my audio system and that doesn't make me an idiot. Stop the hate and embrace the diversity and respectful interchange of opinions. Have a nice one everyone :)
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theroflcopter, why do you care what people spend their money on? I would think that most people buying Audiophile gear off Massdrop would at least done some sort of research. Maybe people are willing to spend the money for the build quality or aesthetics. I for one don't understand why you would spend thousands of dollars on amps, speakers, etc and then buy $5 wire to hook them up.
Tanthanis
I never said I cared what people spend their money on
"Each CEntrance Reserve Series cable has 14 separate conductors, shaped for optimal sonic reproduction. Bass frequencies travel in a solid central 12 AWG core conductor, which is surrounded by six stranded cores. These outside conductors carry the mid and high frequencies, resulting in solid imaging, enhanced sound staging, and true signal clarity. "
How can a passive piece of cable differentiate between bass/mid and high frequencies? I may be wrong, but isn't the entire analog electrical passed through the cable when connected?
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Short answer: materials properties. Yes, you can use a thicker wire and some people have even suggested using coat hanger wire (it's an old joke.) But jokes aside, better materials do deliver better results. Again, we are talking about differences which will be more obvious with good equipment.
CEntrance
First it's skin effect, now it's "materials properties". I'm trying really hard to give you the benefit of the doubt, but this is just buzzword soup. Where's the data? I don't need the trade secrets or proprietary details about your cable, just show me how it is better.
Hey folks, We have added an RCA to quarter inch cable to this drop. But the price is currently listed incorrectly. We are working to correct it.
CEntrance
The price has been corrected. Thanks Massdrop!
Sure these look nice and all, but are they 5x nicer than the monoprice ones I have? That work perfectly fine & also look just as nice to me?
https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Affinity-Premium-Braided-Speaker/dp/B015YN6G9G
I just can't believe that most people have the hearing abilities, equipment & environment that would allow you to hear any real difference..... i'm fine with paying more for a nice looking, high quality pre made cable but saying it improves sound quality sounds shady AF. Change my mind?
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massdrop got rid of anyone with a conscience long ago.
"Higher quality materials, better build quality"
im all for that. but at what price premium to me? ehhh, probably not 5x the cost of what i got. is there any empirical data on the difference between these and lower priced comparable ones performance?
im not bashing the product at all, just curious if it really can perform that much better vs just looking very nice for a large premium. and there is certainly a market for them regardless of my opinion and any real data. to many $100 is a tiny fraction of the overall spend so why not just get quality stuff that also looks very nice? people buying $25,000 speakers are probably not worried about spending $100 vs $20 on speaker wire after all.
If you're interested in this, I have a bridge to sell you
Any idea when these ship? I, personally can't wait to swap my cheap cables out!
Nothing says love like controversy. Errrr...wait a minute...
Thanks for keeping the discussion going, guys. Massdrop values conversations. Your comments keep the thread alive and each time promote the drop towards the top, so you are sending us lots of love just by posting here. We love you too!
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Fascinating character. Thanks. Didn't know about him. But hey, no boxing matches here, we aim to elevate the playing field.
CEntrance
the poster child for "all press is good press".
Oh, what fun! For those in the group who think these are "expensive cables" - these ain't nothin', kids. Have you not priced out truly expensive cables? Why not spend $77,000 for a pair? While not exhaustive, here is one place to start: https://robbreport.com/gear/electronics/slideshow/9-most-wildly-expensive-speaker-cables-available/audioquest-tree-series-wel-signature/ I am willing to bet you can spend way more than the $77,000 if you are so inclined.
davidcbuuck
I don't think that makes it any more right at any price.

Again, sell all the 100+ dollar cables you want, just don't claim that they make sound better and we're good.
And for those in group who (like me) somewhat dislike the threaded tips on the banana plugs - there is an easy fix. A small dab of thread-locking compound on that last two threads near the base of screw/tip interface does the trick. (Alternately, if you don't need to remove the tips ever again, a silver-filled conductive epoxy like Loctite 3888 should work well.) Two tips: 1) Be careful not apply too much and partially impede the metal-to-metal (thread-to-thread) interface, as this forms the galvanic bond between the banana tip and the body of the connector (not a concern if you are using the Loctite 3888); 2) A decent amount of torque must be applied in tightening the two subassemblies together - no idea of the quantity (e.g. "how many" inch-ounces). You kind of have to feel your way through this bit but the key is to use two pairs of pliers (like Channelocks), whose gripping surfaces have been "softened" with a very thin shop rag or other fabric so as not to mechanically mar the banana plug subassembly surfaces. I have had to do this in the past with a very nice (and very similar) set of cables from Emotiva.
Michael - by the by - these appear to be very nicely made cables, good materials and components. Heirloom quality by the looks of it. Let me know if you would like me to run a test suite on my Agilent impedance analyzer ;-) Happy to spend the hour to do it. Also, where do I track down a pair of your 2504s? Having a tough time finding a pair to add to my "fleet".
i just dont get this. if you want to get nice-looking cables, DIY it.
Michael - I think on several responses you have asserted that you have test data for your cables. For the actual working practicing electrical engineers in the audience, can you offer up these data? Are you using a network analyzer? Have you done COMSOL 2D or 3D modeling and lab test cross-correlation? Would love to see what you have. I am just coming off of an effort to do deep measurement, analysis, and SPICE/COMSOL modeling of certain specific kinds of commonly-used bifilar cables. Fascinating stuff. Before I forget all this, would love to see the data you have, along with the test techniques. I can (gladly) sign an NDA.
davidcbuuck
Thanks for the offer. I need to dig up to see what's available. Right now we are in the middle of an office move, so most of the stuff is packed up though.
I see these cables have been shown with a smaller speaker set up. Are these cables okay with an Onkyo receiver and Pioneer 4 way floor speakers?
Homer
Yes, just make sure both the speakers and the amp output can take the banana connectors. It's pretty standard, so should be no issues.
By the way, we respect every opinion. Also, we have sold hundreds of these and not a single cable was returned. People like them.
CEntrance
Gotcha. Hundreds of gullible idiots served.
Holy wow. $100 for 2.5m of cable with some kitschy gimmick bananas?
Am I expected to scream TAKE MY MONEY! I'm an IDIOT! ?
This sure looks like many snakes and oils to me. Why not just buy 100m of 12AWG OFC and a pile of gold plated bananas? Costs about the same and doesn't have the janky screw on tips.
Hell, at the (listed) MSRP you can even buy the multimeter and accessories needed to validate said cables before hooking em up.
Love ya massdrop, but not for scam garbage like this. Just sayin.
Fayne
I'm waiting for the person that has the threads strip out with the banana plug in a terminal.
We might all want to review the (semi-controlled) experiment of using well-terminated coat-hangers for speaker wire. Let the searching begin!
davidcbuuck
Coat hangers forever! ;)
This thread is full of some of the most hilarious audiofool stuff I've ever seen.
I'll double blind my 10 dollar self-made cables against this stuff any day. Maybe the connectors are put on better than a cheap cable, but they're not put on 80 dollars better.
There's a reason why recording studios have settled on neutrik connectors and other INDUSTRY STANDARD stuff. It's because it works without having all the audiofool wankery in it.
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The increase in sound quality would be very minimal and not worth the price difference. However if your extreme-purist/audiophile then you'd probably be willing to spend that much.
If you run balanced signals in all cable runs too the amp you remove the noise. The runs from the amp to the speaker do not really need to be shielded as there is no amp to amplify the noise.
Having shielded cat-6 cable makes no difference unless there is an amplifier of sorts downstream.
Woof, fascinating discussion. However, this is all been well-analyzed and but firmly to bed long ago in the context of actual real-world applied physics, by a luminary in the high-end audio realm. Start here: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
davidcbuuck
Thanks for the link. It's a long read but the main premise is the author's strong conviction that a 5% increase in impedance is not audible. This is a coarse assumption -- people whose hearing is better trained will perceive smaller changes. The author further claims that 12 gauge wire is all you need and that nothing else matters, neither impedance, inductance or capacitance. Of course, this is an oversimplification. Again, this may not matter to a casual observer, but it matters to those who have a trained ear.
Strangely, although he correctly states that 24 gauge is insufficient, the author makes no mention of skin effect, which comes into existence when you crank up the amp and start playing loud (some people do). That puts a serious stress on the entire system and the poorly designed cable could actually be the first thing to fail, increasing the impedance, which the author correctly points out as the problem.
The author never mentions speakers with impedance lower than 8 Ohms. Most of the claims in the article would need to be revised with such more demanding speakers. Also, for all arguments, the author always assumes "a well-designed amp". Sadly, very few are designed well and they cost a lot of money. Most amps are not stellar in their impulse response, damping factor and output impedance under heavy load. In the real world, amps, speakers and cables are all weak links. So if you are building a good system, consider every element.
Lastly, the author claims that the human ear "hears like an oscilloscope." This is really hard to understand because oscilloscopes don't have hearing. To base most of the assumptions in the paper on oscilloscope measurements rather than listening tests means to disregard the controlled studies and abilities of trained subjects. And no, listening tests should not be done at trade shows, where its so loud, you cannot hear a conversation, so the so-called "demonstrations" are useless and are just designed to get people into the booth. Of course, if you work for the manufacturer, who is doing the demonstration, that doesn't add to your credibility and contributes to bias.
For an example from another industry, consider that a $3 bottle of wine is all you need, because grapes are grapes and water is water, same anywhere in the world and a 5% change in mineral composition doesn't matter. Then, a $30 wine would be sold primarily to fool people and $300 wine is definitely a total scam. If you believe that to be true, definitely don't join this drop ;)
But if details matter, then consider that we put years of research into making something that's much superior to the 28 gauge lamp cord, in underlying physics, construction and build quality.
And since the author supports our choice of 12 gauge wire, as well as correctly designed insulation and benefits of gold-plated contacts, then at least we agree on several things and the link actually serves as an endorsement, so definitely thanks for that.
For those who think cables don't matter. Get rid of that really expensive CAT 5 ethernet cable in your home and office networks. CAT 3 should be just fine! And you know, that CAT 7, it's just a total scam meant to take your money!
I've spent years working with supercomputers of various sorts. Cable quality matters, and quality is very complex - sometimes more copper is better, sometimes less. The type of insulation and isolation barriers is important, and different for different applications. More than once I've seen massive re-cabling of Beowulf clusters, because of performance deficits that weren't expected.
In computer applications, getting the cables wrong affects computational speed because problematic data gets detected and re-sent. In your home audio system, there's no error correction between your amp and speakers. Or between your turntable and pre-amp. You get to listen to all the errors.
You may not hear them. Absolutely true. Different people have different hearing abilities and skills. Back when I was a professional musician (brass instruments) when I listened to a trumpet or trombone player, I could tell you what type of metal their bell was made of. I suspect most people couldn't do that, but many of the people I performed with could. 15 years of training does that to you. When I raced cars, I could tell if a tire was two pounds off pressure. Others, my superiors by far, could tell half pound inflation errors. I know people who can taste wine and tell you the grapes involved, the geography or origin, and year. I can tell red from white. And I'm happy with that.
Perhaps more direct: just because you can't tell if a mole is cancerous doesn't mean no one can.
I can tell the difference between zip cord and engineered speaker cables. Not with my cheap garage speakers (12 gauge zip cord there), but in my two main listening systems, I have speaker cables that are specific for the amp/speaker combos. They're both about the same price point, but they perform very differently with different speaker/amp combinations. A couple years ago I swapped them between the two systems as an experiment - could my family, not musically trained, notice? About a half hour into our evening jazz, my wife, who's listening is mostly books on tape, asked me what was wrong with the system. She had no idea as to what or why, but she could tell that something wasn't right. Switched the cables back. Happiness ensued, except I took a lot of crap for assuming she couldn't tell.
If you can't tell the difference between 12 gauge zip cord and engineered speaker cables, good for you! You'll save so much money! But don't be a doofus and assume that the rest of the world's hearing abilities and skills are no better than yours. Assuming that all humans have equal abilities makes you look silly.
And unless you're a dermatologist, let someone else check that mole for you.
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While I think trained ears are more likely to notice the differences that cables can make, I've proven (to myself) that the differences aren't terribly subtle. I had four different pairs of RCA cables that I tried for connecting my DAC to my preamp. It was obvious to me which ones were the best. But a few people who don't really have trained ears also picked either the cables that I liked most, or the ones I liked second best. They had no idea which cable was which. They listened to two different songs with each cable, and said, wow, that third one (or second or whatever) really sounded better. Wasn't the most expensive (thankfully), or least.
In my experience, the better your speakers, the more difference engineered cables make. At the nosebleed end of equipment, there'll be a best or preferred cable among several alternatives for a speaker/amp combination. But for gear that most of us can afford, speakers and amps are so good these days that I think many people would notice an improvement with engineered cables. And if you don't... sell them to someone who does. Very few people I know still use zip cord.
EdinNJ
Massdrop generally means "affordable" and that doesn't always mean "best". Since we are able to offer a truly high-end cable to the massdrop customer, we are bucking the trend and that's bound to raise some eyebrows. No problem. The community will still benefit.
Funny how mnay people join an "audiophile community" and proceed to demonstrate that they never listen by jumping up and down claiming cables all sound the same. If they weren't such jokes it might be worth working my way down the list replying individually tot em. But they are and it isn't.
Bass frequencies travel in a solid central 12 AWG core conductor, which is surrounded by six stranded cores. These outside conductors carry the mid and high frequencies, resulting in solid imaging, enhanced sound staging, and true signal clarity. I do not see any mention of a passive frequency dividing network living inside of one end of the speaker cable plug. So how do they coerce the bass frequencies to travel down one conductor, the mids and highs down another? The answer is self evident. If there is not an electrical reason for the frequencies to travel down a particular conductor instead of another, the signal traverses both. In Pro sound, we use multi-conductor cable with physical seperation between the lows and mid/high signals. This is because the lows are powered by one amp, and the mid/high tops by another. So the output of the two amps must be kept electrically distinct from on anther to avoid blowing things up. These are probably nice cables. But in my experience I've never heard any difference between one copper cable and another when it comes to speaker cables. For line and mic level cables capacitance is more of an issue. In that case It's easy to hear the difference between Canare and monoprice due to the better dialectric used in Canare. As well as the research they have put into how they braid their balanced cables.
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At 60 Hz in copper, the skin depth is about 8 mm. Do you have 8mm thick conductors?
Calaverasgrande
60Hz is at the bottom of the audible spectrum. At high frequencies the skin depth becomes much smaller, which gives rise to cable impedance and makes the speaker less linear in the frequency domain. Any appreciable impedance change in the cable will affect the frequency response of the speaker. That's assuming an ideal amplifier on the other end. If you put a real world amp in the mix, it may have trouble adequately dealing with the resulting reactive load, which further messes up the frequency response of the system (amp/cable/speaker). This is not rocket science and while the delta differences are not huge, what's most important is they have been proven to be perceptible in a good system.
Ok I know I defend a lot of the high end cable drops. But this one is claiming serious sound improvements so this one does get the snake oil label. Once again only buy this if you want a really nice cable and be aware that this doesn’t improve sound.
Cokeman
I need to tread lightly -- This has become somewhat of an emotional thread for folks, so we won't get in the middle of all that, but these cables do offer great quality, solid construction and less sound degradation than the lamp cord. It's easily measured.
Note that ALL speaker cables will degrade the sound quality due to transmission losses -- you are pumping amps of transient current through a resistor, essentially. Copper is not a superconductor and it WILL degrade the signal. The metal heats up, capacitive losses between wires cause a reduction of high-end. The degree to which this actually matters is a personal preference. It's good to know that it IS possible to design the cable for lower impedance, phase distortion and high frequency losses, and this one is designed like that. This may not be a big deal to some people. I was perfectly happy with my tape deck in college, back in the day. But then, I got a better listening environment and the excessive noise became apparent, so I had to upgrade.
So I have to say this -- the cable should not be the first thing you upgrade. First get a good amp, DAC and decent speakers.
Cokeman
You gentlemen do realize that there are "special snakes" that are bred soley for their high quality oil. Almost 95% of it is furnished to the secret world of high end audio.
They are bred on the same farms as Mo's, which are known for their especially fine hair.
Snake oil!
These cables look very nice, but I can't afford to drop $100 on a cable.
JustFluxz
The drop is for a pair of cables.
It's been a couple years since these first dropped, and I still can't really tell if people actually buy these unironically.
I got these cables with my MasterClass 2504 speakers and I am quite happy with them. Without the cables, I couldn't hear anything, but once I added the CEntrance cables, the music just jumped right out of the speakers and into my ears. /s