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Jcarry
13
Mar 13, 2017
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What a crock of shit, this thing sounds like GARBAGE compared to a YAS-203. Why do people/businesses still think it's ok to overcharge for glorified bullshit, oh yeah becuase we still buy their shit.
Mar 13, 2017
CyborgHobbit
7
Mar 13, 2017
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JcarryThis is nearly $100 cheaper.
Mar 13, 2017
DigitalRonyn
558
Creative Labs
Mar 13, 2017
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JcarryAudio is a very personal and subjective thing...and you're certainly entitled your opinion...but you're in the minority with this assessment. We have a large number of very happy users and reviewers.
Not sure why you felt it was necessary to be quite so angry here though. Enjoy your setup!
Mar 13, 2017
Jcarry
13
Mar 14, 2017
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CyborgHobbitThis is true, but they claim this is better because it's got chroma lights!!! It's a freaking speaker bar, add better speakers if you want to make your product better not flashy/gawdy lights.
Mar 14, 2017
Jcarry
13
Mar 14, 2017
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DigitalRonynMy anger sprouts from my YEARS of owning Creative Labs equitment and the ENDLESS problems that are nestled neatly beneath your companies flashy policies. This product does not represent a forward step in the Computer Audio arena, you are adding features that do not add to the quality of the product. Can you verify exactly what size and how many drivers are in the bar itself? Can you verify exactly what the output of the sub is? Can you verify if this is true DTS and not an upscaled DTS? Can you verify this will be Atmos capable?

I 100% understand keeping your company in business, what is impossible to understand is putting out a product that isn't representative of the claims you surround it with.
Mar 14, 2017
DigitalRonyn
558
Creative Labs
Mar 14, 2017
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JcarryJcarry, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not looking to jump into an argument with you on your preferences for audio products. I've gone down this route before and I know how passionate we are all about our preferences.
We designed the Katana with a certain person / customer in mind. This person / customer will appreciate the design aesthetic of the Katana as well as the audio output. The RGB on the Katana is a feature that caters to a very large segment of PC users right now who wish to customize their desktop and systems with lighting. There are those that love it and those that do not. We designed the Katana with those that love it in mind, and also offer the ability to flip a switch and turn it off if they prefer no lighting at all. We have plans and are working with developers on some unique things that the lighting can do beyond just adding an RGB aesthetic to the desktop as well.
We've innovated in the PC audio space for over 30 years now. We believe we have done so again with Katana which is the first product to merge a sound bar and a digital audio processor into one system. Not a dac..a PROCESSOR.
We merged our multi-core processor with a tri-amplified speaker design and effectively deployed a new category of product to the market.
As I noted in my previous statement, there are several reviewers and customers out there that are more than impressed with what the Katana brings to the table. The features may not be for you (as you've made pretty well known here)..it's obvious those features are in the other product you mention and that's perfectly fine and cool. I'm glad you have an audio system you feel so passionate about. Good audio is important. That's one thing we can definitely see eye to eye on.
I've been around the audio business more than long enough to realize that there are several schools of thought and camps, and debating between those schools of thought can be fun in person but can devolve into pretty useless squabble rather quickly when done in forums and in text.
I'm not sure what "claims" you are saying I'm making (or my company is). The specs you're looking for are all in the content and in fact you are actually making up features that we don't claim we support.
1. The dimensions of the speakers are in the content posted: 2.5″ (63.5mm) Upfiring Midbass Drivers (2 of these in the main chassis) 1.3″ (34mm) High-excursion Tweeters (2 of these in the main chassis)
That's 4 total speakers in the main desktop chassis.
5.25″ (133mm) Subwoofer Driver (1 of these in the subwoofer chassis)
Total of 5 speakers (which we say in the content of the page and on our webpage, etc)>
2. I will get the subwoofer exact output. The RMS for the system is 75RMS / 150w Peak Power. Powered by tri-amplified design (each set of speakers + subwoofer has it's own amplification circuit).
3. We don't claim support for DTS. We claim support for Dolby Digital. It's a certified implementation.
4. Atmos is not supported at this time. We've typically added features to our processor enabled products in the past (as we have and continue to do with the X7 and E5 as examples). This is the benefit of having a product that is processor enabled versus codec enabled. We can add / tweak and improve the product as time goes on. Something the users of our E5 and X7 have appreciated (many of which are Massdrop customers)
At the end of the day the only "claim" we're making is that we've created a speaker product unlike anything else on the market. It merges a "soundbar" design with a multi-core dedicated audio processor with RGB lighting (programmable). If this product doesn't work for you that's perfect fine. There are several others that have found this product to be exactly what they want on their desktop and we will keep working to improve and expand on this product in support of them, and hopefully maybe even make something that you'd seriously consider as well in the future.
Mar 14, 2017
Jcarry
13
Mar 14, 2017
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DigitalRonynI'm glad you went through the loops on this, I respect the effort. I also respect that you mentioned the DTS bit too, this was my real skin crawler.
However Your site neglects to note that it is an Upscaled 5.1 that you are getting since your forward facing tweeders cannot reach mid>low ranges at a level that is perceivable by the human ear based on the physical dimmensions and the power imputs. Stating that you give your customer a Dolby digital 5.1 system in any sense is completely misleading. If you were to add upscaled into that bit I wouldn't have an issue because it is an upscaled system. Saying that you aren't using a DAC is silly as well, you just broke it up and incorporated it into the unit via more modern technology that does exactly what oldschool dacs used to do.
This info that I found at the very bottom in the specifications is the only mention that it is a 2.1 system Specifications System Configuration 2.1 system



The yamaha yas-203 that I mentioned earlier is a perfect example of doing what you guys wanted to without the size restriction, which is very very important to the accustics of the system, if you think you get the same quality in a smaller box you are just crazy harmonics do not work that way. I know why you used the tweeders instead of using 4x of the 2.5's but i'll let you dive into that if you feel obliged.
You guys have good products, you also have blatantly bad ones. Everyone does, the difference being a good company will own them and improve upon them without putting it's own approval first. I just want you guys to be absolutely honest about what it is you are selling. Just because it's legal to berrate your customers with buzzwords/smoke and mirrors doesn't mean you should use them as your go to option for everything. At the end of the day I don't really care about the katana, what I care about is flagrant smoke and mirrors/ buzz words being used to sell a product instead of the product selling itself because of how good it actually is. Is the Yas-203 the best soundbar? hell no! Does it physically/acustically sound better? Objectively Yes. Does it look as flashy? No! Does it cost more? Yes! Is it also upscaled?Yes! Does it state that it is upscaled? Hell YES!
Also I 1000000% agree on your example of why not to discuss this over forums/text and have a go at it in person as it is the only way to convey context properly.
Mar 14, 2017
DigitalRonyn
558
Creative Labs
Mar 15, 2017
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JcarryI'm not here to convert you Jcarry. You have your subjective opinion on what "sounds better" and what "is better". It's clear those beliefs are entrenched
We have not berated any customer with buzzwords or smoke.
All of the features are clearly identified in the product content that we have here and on our website. Dimensions, specs, features, etc.
The simple fact is the YAS-203 does not have an audio processor inside of it that is built on 30+ years of proprietary and PROVEN virtual surround technologies. Ours does. I think your issue here primarily has to do with the word upscaled?
Well we're NOT upscaling...we take ALL of the streams that the product is delivered via USB or Optical and process them and apply a virtualization effect that utilizes realtime HRTFS to simulate a surround space. These HRTF's have been defined and refined over decades of audio expertise. Something essentially no other PC audio vendor can claim. We've been here since the beginning.
We can do that because we have a processor that can do this. We're not taking a simple stereo stream and applying a lame pre-rendered reverb to it via a dumb codec. This is real-time processing of multiple audio channels. The ONLY instance that it will apply an "upscaled" effect is if the source is ONLY stereo and the user decides that they want us to attempt to spatialize and widen the stereo source. With less information than a 5.1 or 7.1 stream the effect is of course not going to be as convincing, but can definitely create a wider simulated sound field than something that doesn't have the intelligent processing.
So to be completely clear in Windows..the Katana is recognized as a 7.1 device..and as such games(or other multi channel content) will deliver 7.1 streams to the Katana and we will accept all of those streams and apply the virtual effect to be rendered out by the 4.1 speakers of the Katana. (2 mids / 2 tweeters / 1 subwoofer).
This product rocks in our and many others opinions. We feel we've delivered on what we are saying (and many many others who were skeptical (some QUITE) also felt we delivered as well. We will continue to advance and improve on the product over time as we have with our X7 and E5 products and of course for iterations to come.
We may even make something you actually like in the future and feel like it is worthy of replacing the YAS-203. I know we won't get there if we don't take feedback from everyone. So I appreciate the feedback you've provided here (no sarcasm at all in that, honestly).
Mar 15, 2017
Jcarry
13
Mar 15, 2017
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DigitalRonynThere you go with the misleading buzzwords again, your system is a 2.1 not a 4.1 your site even specifies this. You comepletely ignore the glarring issue that you are only processing the audio stream at a higher sample rate than waht is originally given to the katana hence the upscaling that you are calling non-upscaling . It's clear you will not say the katana is a 2.1(barely 2.1 in terms of accoustics/ Yas-203 is in that same boat FYI) you say that windows pick up the katana as a 7.1 system yet you refuse to say its upscaled, you say your optical in gives a feed back in 5.1 but you wont say it's upscaled. This is simple, your audio engine does the upscaling instead of a DAC, dancing around that by saying your unique audio processor supplies the needed information to make 5.1 /7.1 available is a fancier way of saying my previous statement. You cannot and should not mislead your customers like this. Proprietary software/hardware makes this a grey area for you guys though so you of course being business savy you take advantage of that legal limbo to slightly mislead without ultimately obfuscating what it is you are selling . It's ok to say you can do those things, it's not alright to say you have something you do not. Even if you paint a duck to look like geese it's still a duck man. I am angry for all the people who have purchased this thinking they are getting a legit 5.1 system when the hardware supplied with this system Barely meets 2.1 criteria in terms of accoustics. Paint the picture however you want, at the end of the day you are ultimately misleading your customers and that is not an okay business practice, even if your company has perfected it.
Mar 15, 2017
DigitalRonyn
558
Creative Labs
Mar 15, 2017
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JcarryThere is nothing misleading about my comments Jcarry. I've explained how the technology works and how we process the information and apply a digital effect to it.
Audio simply does not work the way you are saying it does.
Your terminology of "upscaling" is being used incorrectly. When you "upscale" in audio you are taking a limited number of streams and simulating additional streams.
So to be clear for all that are following..the correct use of "upscaling" in the audio sense is if we were taking STEREO signals and then applying filters to those strereo signals and creating a 5.1 effect from stereo signals. We can do that through our processor..and do do that IF the user sets their Katana to do as such (by setting the interface to wide).
HOWEVER, the big difference is...
The Katana RECEIVES audio streams from content . It gets 7.1 streams from Windows content. That's either a game engine or a media player that is delivering 7.1 in a recognized format (or 5.1 or stereo or whatever). If the Katana were not recognized as a 7.1 device in Windows the game engines wouldn't even deliver the audio streams to the Katana. So it's critical that it is recognized as a surround device for us to receive all of that additional information.
We then take those streams...DELIVERED FROM THE CONTENT OR GAME ENGINE our processor recognizes and applies an HRTF (Head Related Transfer Fucntion) to those streams to create a simulated surround effect. The more streams we receive the better the HRTF effect is because our processor is able to apply the algorithm using additional positional information.
This is something that is IMPOSSIBLE TO DO IN REAL TIME WITHOUT ACTUAL AUDIO PROCESSING. The Katana puts the processor INTO the actual unit so you are not using your CPU on your PC or an internal card, or USB hardware accelerated device like our E5 or G5 to do this processing. It's an all in one device and this is the reason why we coined the phrase Under Monitor Audio System.
Of course you can't create a discreet 7.1 experience with a single physical object sitting in front of someone because in a discreet situation you have 7 speakers (and a subwoofer) present. With Katana you have one speaker. If someone wants a discreet 7.1 experience then they are going to need to buy a discreet 7.1 system and place the speakers around the room .
The Katana has been designed to allow users that don't have the room or desire to place 7 speakers around their station or room but still want a surround experience to have one. Albeit simulated. Just like if someone wants a "surround" experience using a headset / headphone. That technology uses HRTF's as well to create a virtual surround experience as well.
That is EXACTLY how the Katana is working. There is no misleading information there or in any of our marketing materials. We lay it out exactly for people to understand and see. We're not naive enough to think that in this day and age people don't have access to factual information. And ESPECIALLY on Massdrop where we know there are users that will call you on BS the moment you try to smoke screen them. I suggest you read my community post I made a while back. I'm a user and fan of this site myself. I know the user base and its nature. You don't come to this place with a product that doesn't perform because it is a COMMUNITY that speaks to each other and you will be outed rather quickly as a BS artist if you are one. My reputation here speaks for itself and I'm proud of that.
And once again, I'll point out that the reviews of Katana also speak for themselves. By and large people are having a great time experiencing it and are frankly surprised by the quality and power of the experience. We're already working on improvements based on user feedback of things that would be nice to have or to adjust. That's who we are as a company. That's something we take pride in as a company that has designed and pushed the envelope for 30 YEARS in the space. And we will keep doing so and keep improving our products even after launch adding features as we have done with our X7 and E5 (which a great number of Massdroppers own and love).
Mar 15, 2017
Jcarry
13
Mar 15, 2017
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DigitalRonynI was wrong about how your audio processor handles the Input, I was not wrong about it being upscaled as an end result. Unless you are saying your processor can magically turn a 16khz sample into a 24khz sample without any upscaling of any form(numbers are for an example not an actual reference). This , from how you explained it, does exactly what the Yas-203 does but with Your audio processor instead of thiers. Chew on this for a bit--
Head related transfer function (HRTF) enhancement for improved vertical-polar localization in spatial audio systems US 8428269 B1 Abstract A spatial audio system for implementing a head-related transfer function (HRTF). A first stage implements a lateral HRTF that reproduces the median frequency response for a sound source located at a particular lateral distance from a listener, and second stage implements a vertical HRTF that reproduces the spectral changes when the vertical distance of a sound source changes relative to the listener. The system improves the vertical localization accuracy provided by an arbitrary measured HRTF by introducing an enhancement factor into the second processing stage. The enhancement factor increases the spectral differentiation between simulated sound sources located at different positions within the same “cone of confusion.”
by definition you are upscaling part of the HRTF to replicate/enhance(this is the upscaling part buddy) . Unless you guys have completely redesigned how HRTF is being implimented.
Like I said before, you can paint a duck to look like a goose but it's still a duck man.
Mar 15, 2017
Jcarry
13
Mar 16, 2017
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JcarryWas I wrong here? I'll happily do more research I just thought I had a pretty decent Idea of what the technology was meant to do.
Mar 16, 2017
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