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Danbstein
306
Mar 9, 2018
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I am copying a response I just gave listing tube combinations that I like in case anyone else may find it useful. Here's a list of tube combinations for the Dark Voice that I like. Obviously different people have different tastes....so for what it's worth, here's the list (with pics) A. With power tubes Tung Sol 7236 (better) or Tung Sol 6AS7G:
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1. National Union (CNU 6SN7GT) Grey Glass
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2. RCA VT231—Grey Glass
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3. Ken Rad VT231—Black Glass Staggered plates
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4. Sylvania 6SN7w
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5. Sylvania 6SN7GT “Bad Boy” (1952 vintage, bottom getter)
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6. Brimar 6SN7GT Black base
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7. Brimar CV1988 Brown base
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8. Tung Sol 6SN7GT Round plates
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B. With power tubes Sylvania Gold Brand 6080 or Tung Sol 5998/2399
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1. Sylvania VT231
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2. Raytheon VT231
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3. Raytheon 6SN7-W-GT Brown Base
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4. Tung Sol 6SN7GT—Mouse Ears
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5. Tung Sol 6SN7WGTA Brown Base
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6. CBS 5692 Brown Base
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7. Sylvania 6SN7GTA (“chrome dome”)
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8. Sylvania 6SN7GT (1950’s vintage, bottom getter)
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Mar 9, 2018
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9
Mar 11, 2018
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DanbsteinThanks for this post! Is the Tung-Sol 6SJ7GT compatible with the 336SE?
Mar 11, 2018
Danbstein
306
Mar 12, 2018
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Internal_Server_ErrorHi. First of all... great screen name. I actually thought I had an error message when a saw a notification that I got a message from "internal..."
In response to your question: Definitely not. Completely different tube with a much higher gain. The 6j is a single pentode and the 6n is a twin triode. Different pin outs.
There are a number of tubes that you can sub for the 6sn7 with various adapters. I've tried a 12ax7 to 6sn7, a 6cg7 (the mini 9 pin version of the 6sn7) to 6sn7, a 12au7 to 6sn7 and a 6f8g or 6c8g to 6sn7. Wasn't crazy about the 12ax7 or 12au7 with adapters in the DV. The 6cg7 is an interesting tube. Most of the ones I tried were too bright, but I have a mullard and Amperex that sound fantastic.
The 6f8g was the tube prior to the 6sn7. I've just recently gotten into these tubes and they are quite impressive. Some people (with way more knowledge than me) claim they are better than the 6sn7. I have a Tung Sol VT99 (Military version of the 6f8g) that is the same tube as the famed 6sn7gt round plates. IMO, the vt99 is a better tube. The national union 6f8g is also amazing. Prices for the 6f8g tubes are generally much lower than the equivalent 6sn7 tubes (the adapter is only about $15). I got the Tung Sol VT99 (nos) for $25 a year ago. Unfortunately that particular tube has skyrocketed in the past year.. but you can still get them much less than the 6sn7 (plus they are gorgeous to look at).
Also worth noting, the 6f8g adapter will also work with a 6c8g. These tubes are even cheaper. Look for the national union JAN version (I just picked up a NOS for $15 shipped that sounds better than the NU grey glass in my photo above that cost me $70 for NOS). Another great 6c8g is the RCA round plates (also just got that NOS for $20 shipped).
I'll try to post pics of these when I can.
Mar 12, 2018
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Mar 12, 2018
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DanbsteinThanks for your time and attention -much appreciated!!
Mar 12, 2018
Casey84
2
Mar 12, 2018
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DanbsteinAre these listed in your order of preference? Or are they in no particular order?
Mar 12, 2018
Danbstein
306
Mar 12, 2018
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Casey84No particular order. My favorite combination is the Brimar cv1988 with the 7236.
Mar 12, 2018
Davestef
239
Dec 29, 2018
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Danbsteini have the tung sol in the first pic and the tung sol with the mouse ears. It produces the sweetest mid range ive ever heard so far in my dark voice journey. thats using the hd6xx.
Dec 29, 2018
JKDjEdi
13
Apr 3, 2019
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DanbsteinInsane collection dude. Nice.
Apr 3, 2019
Danbstein
306
Apr 3, 2019
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JKDjEdiThanks! Hope it was helpful. Saw your posts on headfi. Good stuff
Apr 3, 2019
Nevermind100841
0
Jan 25, 2021
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DanbsteinHi Danbstein, i have so many questions regarding tubes. i need this info to make decision on buying the next one. i'm currently using 6xx with tungsol 6sn7gt mouse ear and tungsol 5998 and imo mouse ear is kidda too bright for me 1.First, i would like to know your impression and comparison of each other which are Melz 1578,Tungsol roundplate, tungsol 6f8g roundplate, Sophia blueglass 6sn7 and CV1988. If you dont have either of these, it's fine. 2.with the price of Tungsol roundplate, do you think this is over hyped tube? 3.see your profile and you are having a combo of CV1988 and 7236. is CV1988 better than Tungsol roundplate or just a change of favor? 4.heard alot about CV1988 and ECC33/32 being the best at vocal.Do you think is that true? If so, does it do anything else like bass sound stage and detail better? i'm sorry if i asked to many and some might overlap the others but i explored so many websites and still i cant make a final decision
Jan 25, 2021
Danbstein
306
Feb 20, 2021
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Nevermind100841Sorry for the late response. I haven't been on drop in awhile. I hope this is still useful: 1. Haven't heard the Melz, but I understand it's a wonderful tube IF you can find a genuine one. Many are listed as genuine that aren't. I haven't purchased one bc they are prohibitively expensive. After a certain price, there are diminishing returns. The tungsol round plates are very similar. Both are ridiculously expensive. I got a partially used one at a good price, but I wouldn't pay nos prices. I don't know the sophia, but in general I haven't liked many modern tubes, even the ones that are well respected. There are many types of CV1988 tubes. This is the British equivalent of the 6sn7. Some of my favorite tubes are brimar cv1988 tubes. Again they can be expensive but if you find uk dealers they can be reasonably priced. 2. I like the round plates, but not enough to justify the absurd prices. Again look for a used one. 3. The brimar cv1988 is a uniquely sounding tube. It's lush and warm with wonderful midrange. It's not as detailed as some other tubes, but I prefer warmth over detail. There's also a depth to the sound that I can't put into words. I combine it with the 7236 bc the 7236 has a very detailed almost solid state sound. I find the two tubes compliment each other beautifully. Paired with a 5998 however a cv1988 would sound muddy. I personally like the sound of the brimar more than the tungsol 4. I think the cv1988 excells at vocals. My personal favorite in that regard. Bass and soundstage are outstanding too. Treble is sometimes a little muted which is why I pair with the 7236. Keep in mind all of this varies with equipment and different people like different sounds. Hope this helps
Feb 20, 2021
Nevermind100841
0
Feb 24, 2021
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Danbsteinthx for ur reply.i guess i will go for tungsol roundplate(if i can find a used one) since i only have 5998. it is so hard these days to find 5998 and 7236. And if i have a luck i might find one and then i can get cv1988. i forget to ask if you have rca5692 red base or not. If so can you do the comparison for me between rca5692 and cv1988 ?since both of them seems to be regarded as sweet and lush sounding tube so i want to know some differences.
Feb 24, 2021
Danbstein
306
Feb 24, 2021
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Nevermind100841Hi. The 5998 is a warm tube. Personally I wouldn't match it with the round plate since it's warm as well. A good punchy dynamic tube like sylvania 6sntgt (pre 1959) or raytheon vt231 (version 2 or 3) or nu 6sn7gt would pair well. Be wary of any tube advertised as a sylvania bad boy. Very few are true bad boys and they are tough to identify. Also "chrome dome" is is usually misrepresented. Another great power tube (one of my favorites) is the mullard 6080. It's the only 6080 I like and I like it better than the 5998. The mullard also pairs well with a punchy tube.
Feb 24, 2021
Danbstein
306
Feb 24, 2021
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Nevermind100841Also the rca5692 is a MUCH different tube than the cv1988. Not warm at all. Definitely a bright tube. Tough to pair. Way over rated and over priced. The CBS 5692 brown base on the other hand is a wonderful tube that is generally much cheaper. That tube would pair nicely with the mullard 6080 or the 5998.
Feb 24, 2021
Nevermind100841
0
Feb 26, 2021
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Danbsteinreally appreciate all these info. i guess my journey of tube is still far from end. from what i research i always thought that tungsol round plate is one of legendary tubes that can do everything as a 6sn7 tube and 5998 as the best for 6as7. Do you think that the proper way to pair between preamp and power amp is to have them both opposite from each other ? and if 5998 and mullard 6080 consider warm tube does 7236 a warm tube as well since it is kidda similar to 5998? and what power amp do you think would match best with tungsol roundplate? i'm sorry if i ask way too many i hope you wouldnt mind this
Feb 26, 2021
Danbstein
306
Feb 26, 2021
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Nevermind100841I don't mind at all. I enjoy tube discussions (it's not a popular topic among friends :) ). First of all, keep in mind my recommendations are simply based on my trial and error experiments and extensive reading online. I am certainly not the final answer on any of this. A lot can also depend on your headphones which further complicates issues. Different tubes sound better with different headphones. Further, your DAC, your source, the specific recording you are using...ALL impact the sound. The reason I like tubes so much is there is so much flexibility and SO many possible sound combinations that you can use to offset sound signatures caused by other components. Here's the way I use tubes to tailor the sound to my liking: I like a warm, yet detailed sound (which is hard to achieve). I'm sensitive to excessive treble, so shy away from "bright" tubes, headphones, amps, etc. My favorite pair of headphones (and I have over 100 pairs) is the Sennheiser HD 650 (modified) to give you an idea of the sound signature I prefer. The problem with "warmth" is that it can sound muddy without enough detail (imaging in particular). So my approach with all component matching, including tubes, is to offset warm and bright. So for tubes, I like to offset a warm tube with a brighter tube and vice versa. After experimenting with many combinations, I found that having a brighter power tube gave me more flexibility with the driver tube. I like the 7236 so much because it is a very clean sounding tube. Not overly bright. Almost solid state in its clarity. Excellent imaging. To tame the solid state aspect, I pair it with a warmer driver tube. My favorite combination is the 7236 and the brimar cv1988. To me, it's magical. it also pairs well with the tungsol round plate, which is a wonderful tube, but I like the british tubes better. The roundplate is also absurdly priced. You end up paying more for the tube than the amp, which is nuts. The darkvoice is a great amp because of its price. However, if you are investing hundreds of dollars in tubes, I think it would make sense to put that money into an amp with better quality control (like something made by Feliks Audio). If you can find a roundplate used for a good price, then by all means, get one. But that's hard to find. I think you need to determine how much you are willing to spend and how much you are willing to experiment. You also need to determine what kind of sound you tend to like. Do you like a more clinical detailed sound or a warmer sound or something in between. I personally like switching out tubes and trying new combinations--I do it regularly. I also like switching headphones. But that's me. Some people just want one set up that they can listen to without having to switch tubes constantly. Before you invest a lot of money I think you need to determine what exactly you are looking for--unless of course you are willing to experiment (I have boxes of tubes I don't use often because I tried MANY different combinations until I figured out what worked. But that was part of the fun for me and why I like tubes). I'm not sure if any of this is helping. I just think it's worth thinking about. Getting back to your original question: If I remember correctly, you already have a 5998, right? Let's assume that you only want ONE pair of tubes for the moment and that you are looking for a good driver tube to match. You have a mouse ears that you aren't crazy about (again, correct me if I'm not remembering correctly) and are looking for a replacement. The roundplate is excellent, but I don't think it's the best combination with the 5998. They are both too similar (on the warmer side). And price wise, it's a huge investment. With the 5998, I would go with a more mid-range sounding tube. I think the best bang for the buck and great all around tubes for a driver tube are the Sylvania 6sn7gt or 6sn7gta (not gtb). The 1950s vintage gt tubes are excellent (bottom getter--meaning the flashing is on the bottom and the top is clear). The top getter gta tubes are also great (that's with the flashing on the top). Sometimes sellers try to pass these off as "chrome domes" or "bad boys" and then jack up the prices. Avoid those. It's unlikely that they are actually true chrome domes or bad boys and if they are, you are back in roundplate territory pricewise. You should be able to get excellent "very good" used or even NOS tubes from $15-$50. Another tube worth looking at is the Raytheon VT 231. This is a dynamite tube with great dynamics. they are usually a little more than the sylvanias but still reasonable. Another great tube is the NU 6sn7gt (sometimes sold as Admiral or Silvertone). Three other great tubes that are usually reasonable: tungsol 6sn7wgta, cbs/hytron (or just hytron) 6sn7gt, rca 6sn7gt (1950s vintage--great all rounder and inexpensive). All of these have similar sound signatures and would compliment the 5998. I just checked ebay--slim pickings! prices are way too high on many tubes. But I did find these which would be great: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-TUBES-Sylvania-6SN7GT-6SN7GTA-chrome-dome-black-plates-factory-matching-H3M/192781523575?epid=1439799996&hash=item2ce2ac9a77:g:jWMAAOSw8R9cMR4B (note these are not true chrome domes thus the lower price...still great tubes, especially the JAN version, which is military grade) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-1952-Sylvania-6SN7GT-Test-NOS-Near-Offset-Black-Plates-Serious-Tubes-N351/174654420654?hash=item28aa36f6ae:g:2bUAAOSw0sxgOKMt (make an offer for $25 and maybe you will land on $30. I've purchased from this seller) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Hytron-Made-6SN7GT-Black-Plate-Tubes-Good-Enough-for-Government/154346950681?hash=item23efcb9019:g:4rMAAOSwtnpaFMom (used, but at this price worth it and will give you plenty of life) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raytheon-JAN-CRP-6SN7GT-VT-231-1951-Vintage/303855687366?hash=item46bf35d6c6:g:XBEAAOSwNVRgBOZK (make an offer for $30 or just buy now for $40. very good deal) https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NATIONAL-UNION-6SN7GT-TESTED-BLACK-GLASS-BALANCED-NICE-TUBE/124587506108?hash=item1d01fe79bc:g:TxYAAOSwLEJgM5dK

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-RCA-6SN7GT-AUDIO-PREAMPLIFIER-TUBES-TV7-TESTED-STRONG/264971092108?hash=item3db182008c:g:axQAAOSw6a5fib12 (very good price) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Tung-Sol-USN-CTL-6SN7WGTA-Military-Electron-Tube-NOS-NIB-1957/203255383490?hash=item2f52f705c2:g:m7EAAOSwcsJgCgLn (make an offer of $35) I looked for 7236 tubes on ebay, but there are very few and way over priced. I did find one used one on ETSY that is reasonable (LeedsRadio is 100% reliable): It's a Sylvania but nearly identical sound wise to a tungsol https://www.etsy.com/listing/952076244/sylvania-7236-vacuum-tube-black-plates?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_a-craft_supplies_and_tools-tools_and_equipment-parts-electrical_parts-bulbs_and_tubes&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAiA1eKBBhBZEiwAX3gql865nNYWIeB0y5HSv43U-WX7-PqbBZxzAuAiHqLaY6SRKl4MWgElEhoCncMQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_11502762680_117987343091_476135477659_pla-295472667347_c__952076244_125010449&utm_custom2=11502762680&gclid=CjwKCAiA1eKBBhBZEiwAX3gql865nNYWIeB0y5HSv43U-WX7-PqbBZxzAuAiHqLaY6SRKl4MWgElEhoCncMQAvD_BwE I recommend picking one or two of the driver tubes I suggested above (perhaps the pair of sylvanias--first link, and the hytron, NU, or RCA given their low prices). I also recommend reading through Brent Jesse's description of 6sn7 tubes to learn the different types (http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm). He is one of the best tube sellers out there. Anything from him will be top notch. Generally, he is more expensive, but if you scroll toward the bottom of his price list (description on top, tubes for sale toward bottom), there are quite a few very reasonably prices NOS or slightly used tubes, all under $50. I saw this listing: "6SN7GT Sylvania black STAGGERED Plates" for $35. This is a Ken-Rad tube and is outstanding. Very hard to find--especially at this price. Great thing about Brent is you can email him and ask if he thinks this tube will pair well with your 5998. He's very honest and helpful. Best in the business. This website is probably the most helpful description of 6sn7 tubes out there. I learned so much from going through the first few pages. It will save you a huge amount of time if you learn what you are looking at (reading date codes, brand codes, etc) and the specific types of tubes that are worth looking for. I strongly recommend spending time on this page: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/ If you decide to go with the 7236, we can then discuss possible warm tubes for it. Still, I think your best bet is to start small and decide what sound works best. There's no reason to spend 100's of dollars on the best of the best. Let me know if this helps and if you have other questions. Also curious what you end up with. Good luck
Feb 26, 2021
Nevermind100841
0
Feb 27, 2021
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Danbsteini'm sorry that i didnt introduce my gears before asking questions. i also have 6xx as the main daily driver after i got 58x and i moded it untill it broke lol. i have topping d10 as a budget dac (this is my first dac though) and darkvoice as the main tube amp (i only have soundcard blaster AE-5 before having this tube amp and its sound horribly bright in comparison. with that said i consider myself to be a novice for an audiophile world. when i got darkvoice i felt very dissappointed on how it doesnt change much from my soundcard and it got hum as well. i did some research and found out that stock tube are kidda suck so i change just only power tube into rca 6as7(most people recommend this as the first change) to see if it would do anything and with only that it blew me away with sense of smoothness, warmth and sense of bigger soundstage and 3D holographic(this is probably the first time i got to know what soundstage is as my 6xx is so narrow with soundcard in comparison). i thought of myself that time i wouldnt need anything else anymore but as you can see the curiosity got the better of me and i thought i should replace preamp with a better tube as well and i ended up with tungsol mouse ear because i saw from someone do this setup from the darkvoice top review . after that i spent alot of time doing the research. i went alot to https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/ , https://www.head-fi.org/threads/darkvoice-336i-336se-tuberolling-partii.348833/ , drop review(thats where i met u and felt like of all reviewer you are the best here) and some other post from my own country (Thailand) as well as http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm etc etc. i really thank you for ur effort to find link and put recommedation tube for me and i'm very sorry that i didnt introduce this first. at the present time here are the lists of tube i have for power amp rca 6as7 tungsol 5998 for preamp tube tungsol 6sn7gt mouse ear then cbs/hython 5692 and melz 1578 which i doubt if it is real or not because if doesnt have stamp but internal structure look very close the the real one from what i mention below i might use the wrong term due to being a novice to this audio world. i'm sorry if i made mistake here i listen to my setup and have the volume knob very close to 9 o clock so i consider my self listen to loud or maybe very loud volume from my impression for power tube i categorize in to three section which are 1.rca 6as7 (i own this)or other 6as7 brand are good power amp for the beginner. it is a good introduction that will bring you a sense of warmth smoothness and 3D soundstage and if you want a next step i feel like you should go for either number two or three down below here. 2.tungsol 5998 (i own this)and 7236 is the best of power amp in my opinion. the change from rca 6as7 to 5998,it has all the trait of rca 6as7 with the additional that the background instrument become more vivid and detailed is more and seperation is perceived better while remain the warmth of vocal as well as bass going deeper. it is a huge change for me. from what i heard the only difference from 5998 and 7236 is the bass department. 5998 is going deeper while 7236 has tighter bass and more slam which i'm not really sure what that is. 3.6080 series and i heard mullard is the best among them. i dont own this tube yet so i cant really give off my first impression but from what i heard that it gives more body than tungsol5998 and some of people from Tubemaze also praise this one more than5998 i feel like you can settle with either 5998/7236 or 6080 there is no more upgrade after this for my impression for preamp tube that i own 1.tungsol mouse ear i feel like it can do everything okay just only okay except for it being bright sound even though i pair with warm tube like 5998 i heard that this mouse ear is very solid state like and i'm not sure if being bright sound a part of being solid state sound like which is a turn off for me 2.cbs/hyton 5692 is very neutral sounding. it doesnt offend u with brightness from time to time like mouse ear. i can perceive more details just a bit and soundstage being wider than mouse ear. mouse ear feel like the sound is around your head but 5692 being very far than that (if the layer of the instrument is far). it is very fast as well. i can perceive the song that is very busy better but the down side of this tube is that the bass feel lacking comparing to mouse ear. 3.melz1578 is considered to be a hidden gem tube that deserves to be among round plate cv1988 or 6sn7w metal base from what i heard. i have one and not sure if its real or not but with that being said it is currently the best of all three. melz1578 to my ears is cbs5692 with more bass and its going deep with more slam perhaps? that 5692 lacks with the sacrifice of midrange being a little bit dry. my goal for now is to find the true end game tube that doesnt cost as the tube like B65 or 6sn7w metal base my preference is like u which is very warmth yet detailed which is why roundplate really caught my attention since it seems to do everything as well as cv1988 that seems to be very unique tube that do super realistic vocal and being lush and thats very interesting to me. for now i plan to get roundplate(if in good price ) then maybe i can go with 7236 to pair roundplate if its not what i expect i might go for cv1988 and mullard 6080 to pair with other preamp tube i have thx u again for ur suggestion and everything
Feb 27, 2021
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