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pvrse
54
Mar 19, 2018
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B1gdee05
341
Mar 19, 2018
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pvrseCould you advise on where you can purchase the named tubes for the DV?
pvrse
54
Mar 19, 2018
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B1gdee05http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/Shuguang-Treasure/Shuguang-Treasure-CV181-Z
https://m.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-TUNG-SOL-7236-TUBES-BLACK-LABEL-METAL-BASE-5998-6AS7-7236/312071881729?epid=166838416&hash=item48a8ef0401:g:reAAAOSwXQZZdRTD
That's where I acquired both, and I belive it's the best all around set up to date as a power tube and 6ns7 tube combo
https://m.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-TUNG-SOL-7236-TUBES-BLACK-LABEL-METAL-BASE-5998-6AS7-7236/312071881729?epid=166838416&hash=item48a8ef0401:g:reAAAOSwXQZZdRTD
That's where I acquired both, and I belive it's the best all around set up to date as a power tube and 6ns7 tube combo
B1gdee05
341
Mar 19, 2018
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pvrseMany thanks for the attached information..
I was thinking of using the Chord Mojo as a DAC (line out).
B1gdee05
341
Mar 28, 2018
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pvrseI totally agree with you, however the DV isn't portable. I also use the Mojo with the Little Bear B4 which is also a vacuum tube and totally portable, unlike the Woo Wa8
I prefer the warm sound compared the transistor state amp which sharp precise.
B1gdee05
341
Mar 28, 2018
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pvrseBTW I have ordered the recommended rolling tube for the DV, when recieved and installed i shall let you know how it sounds...
Question:
How long do you recommend the burning time for the tube or it doesn't require burning in?
Eli35
653
Mar 28, 2018
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B1gdee05I own a hybrid LD I+ amp, and I've rolled several tubes on it. Most tubes burn-in takes a few days (around 8h / day), but for instance the Voskhod 6zh1p-ev took around two weeks to get rid of some strange noises and "open up" a bit more. Difference isn't dramatic, but the noise was clearly audible then and now it's almost dead silent (not as much as other models, but way better than before). I know my LD is not a OTL amp, YMMV, but I think most tubes behave like that according to my readings.
Edit: I did burn-in by just listening to it, there's nothing wrong with the stock sound and you also can notice the small difference before & after burn-in on several tubes to judge by yourself. For me, it's a fundamental part of the tube rolling, I would never advise to let some gear burn-in without listening to it because it kills the experience.
BTW I'm also waiting for my DV to arrive, so hyped! Next month I'll buy some tubes, thanks @pvrse for the suggestion!
Edit: I did burn-in by just listening to it, there's nothing wrong with the stock sound and you also can notice the small difference before & after burn-in on several tubes to judge by yourself. For me, it's a fundamental part of the tube rolling, I would never advise to let some gear burn-in without listening to it because it kills the experience.
BTW I'm also waiting for my DV to arrive, so hyped! Next month I'll buy some tubes, thanks @pvrse for the suggestion!
mindhead1
599
Apr 1, 2018
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pvrseWhat specifically do you like about this combo? How do they affect the sound relative to the stock tubed?
B1gdee05
341
Apr 4, 2018
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pvrseConclusion:
I had the recommended tube burning in for about 10 hours, however I noticed a slight hum in the left ear of the 6XX.
Very slight hum when the volume is at minimum I tried reseating the tube but to no avail. When the volume is at 10 o'clock I don't hear the humming. The sound experience is a lot softer and warmer than the stock tubes.
Everyone listening experience is different however I prefer the stock tubes on this particular 336SE with total silence and no humming whatsoever.
I will try and play about with the tubes that I have purchased and mix it up a bit.
A bit of philosophy "if it isn't broken why fix it". But the mark of excellence has been set.
Everyone listening experience is different however I prefer the stock tubes on this particular 336SE with total silence and no humming whatsoever.
I will try and play about with the tubes that I have purchased and mix it up a bit.
A bit of philosophy "if it isn't broken why fix it". But the mark of excellence has been set.
mindhead1
599
Apr 4, 2018
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B1gdee05I have been using my DV with the stock tubes and have no hum or buzzing. Early on I experienced some static in the channels, but that has subsided since day 2. I have some additional tubes on order and am interested to see how they change the sound.
mindhead1
599
Apr 5, 2018
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pvrseI guess this is part of the fun. I'll give the Tung-Sol 6sn7 a go and then try some others as I descend further down the rabbit hole.
mindhead1
599
Apr 6, 2018
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pvrseWhat's a good price for the shanguang treasure for the 6ns7? I'm seeing them from $55 - $150.
pvrse
54
Apr 6, 2018
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mindhead1http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/Shuguang-Treasure/Shuguang-Treasure-CV181-Z
trusted and your final stop
trusted and your final stop
mindhead1
599
Apr 9, 2018
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pvrseSome initial feedback on my new tubes.
The Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB has some serious hum. I am on day 3 of the burn in and it's starting to subside. I am following the instructions from http://blog.thetubestore.com/burning-in-6sn7-tubes-for-the-dark-voice-336se-headphone-amp/ Hopefully, the hum will completely disappear in another day or 2. I'll wait a while longer before passing judgement on the Tung-Sol 6sN7GTB.
I have listened to the Tung-Sol 6sN7GTB paired with the stock 6AS7 and the 6AS7G I purchased which is labeled as an Hewlett-Packard by RCA tube. At this point it seems that the HP/RCA 6AS7G tube is having the biggest impact on sound which I didn't think would be the case. I noticed an expanded soundstage, greater detail/separation and more mid-range and treble when I use the HP/RCA 6AS7G with either the stock 6SN7 or the Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB. The HP/RCA 6AS7G also seem to tighten up the low end and bass and snare drums seem to hit a little harder which I like.
I am hoping that some additional burn in time takes some of the edge off of the highs I'm getting from the HP/RCA 6AS7G. The highs on songs like Stevie Wonder - I Wish and RHCP - Give it Away are a little irritating to me when using the 6AS7G. I don't have this problem with the stock 6AS7 tube.
With regard to the DV336SE -> 6xx chain, I continue to be impressed. I used the 6xx with my Aune X1S the other day and think I finally understand "the veil". I have been using the X1S as a DAC for the DV336SE and decided to do a little A/B between the X1S Amp and the DV336SE. The 6xx sounded like something was being held back via the X1S Amp. When I switched the headphones to the DV336SE "the veil" lifted and the vocals and highs seemed much more clear and open. I had heard about "the veil", but never realized what it was until now. Fun stuff.
The Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB has some serious hum. I am on day 3 of the burn in and it's starting to subside. I am following the instructions from http://blog.thetubestore.com/burning-in-6sn7-tubes-for-the-dark-voice-336se-headphone-amp/ Hopefully, the hum will completely disappear in another day or 2. I'll wait a while longer before passing judgement on the Tung-Sol 6sN7GTB.
I have listened to the Tung-Sol 6sN7GTB paired with the stock 6AS7 and the 6AS7G I purchased which is labeled as an Hewlett-Packard by RCA tube. At this point it seems that the HP/RCA 6AS7G tube is having the biggest impact on sound which I didn't think would be the case. I noticed an expanded soundstage, greater detail/separation and more mid-range and treble when I use the HP/RCA 6AS7G with either the stock 6SN7 or the Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB. The HP/RCA 6AS7G also seem to tighten up the low end and bass and snare drums seem to hit a little harder which I like.
I am hoping that some additional burn in time takes some of the edge off of the highs I'm getting from the HP/RCA 6AS7G. The highs on songs like Stevie Wonder - I Wish and RHCP - Give it Away are a little irritating to me when using the 6AS7G. I don't have this problem with the stock 6AS7 tube.
With regard to the DV336SE -> 6xx chain, I continue to be impressed. I used the 6xx with my Aune X1S the other day and think I finally understand "the veil". I have been using the X1S as a DAC for the DV336SE and decided to do a little A/B between the X1S Amp and the DV336SE. The 6xx sounded like something was being held back via the X1S Amp. When I switched the headphones to the DV336SE "the veil" lifted and the vocals and highs seemed much more clear and open. I had heard about "the veil", but never realized what it was until now. Fun stuff.
B1gdee05
341
Apr 9, 2018
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mindhead1How are you burning the tungsol in?
1. Are you playing music through the tube?
2. Are you putting various pitch frequencies through the tube?
3. Are you just leaving the tube on? I had the same experience hum on the right ear of my 6xx.
(Please note that the first two option is what I use for burning in headphones).
1. Are you playing music through the tube?
2. Are you putting various pitch frequencies through the tube?
3. Are you just leaving the tube on? I had the same experience hum on the right ear of my 6xx.
(Please note that the first two option is what I use for burning in headphones).
mindhead1
599
Apr 9, 2018
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B1gdee05My hum is in the left channel.
I am using the technique described in the following link to burn in the Tung-Sol. http://blog.thetubestore.com/burning-in-6sn7-tubes-for-the-dark-voice-336se-headphone-amp/
I have just left the the Amp on without the power tube (6AS7) in it. It seems to be working because the hum is much lower than it was initially. Today was the first day I could listen with the Tung-Sol tube in and not be distracted by the hum. The stock 6SN7 is nearly silent.
I am using the technique described in the following link to burn in the Tung-Sol. http://blog.thetubestore.com/burning-in-6sn7-tubes-for-the-dark-voice-336se-headphone-amp/
I have just left the the Amp on without the power tube (6AS7) in it. It seems to be working because the hum is much lower than it was initially. Today was the first day I could listen with the Tung-Sol tube in and not be distracted by the hum. The stock 6SN7 is nearly silent.
B1gdee05
341
Apr 10, 2018
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pvrseEureka.... I think I have cracked it.
After burning the tung-sol the hum has subside tremendously, and in fact tolerable listening..
Thank you pvrse and mind head1.
You must listen to a track called "Night Mood" by Sylvester Harper with this tube set up and 6XX.. OMG...
Let me know your listening experience..
After burning the tung-sol the hum has subside tremendously, and in fact tolerable listening..
Thank you pvrse and mind head1.
You must listen to a track called "Night Mood" by Sylvester Harper with this tube set up and 6XX.. OMG...
Let me know your listening experience..
pvrse
54
Apr 10, 2018
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B1gdee05 "Night Mood" by Sylvester Harper... The bass and sax with the clarity of the vocals are an incredible example of how this tube combo functions with the 600 line.... even the keys and triangle resonate so god damn warm with a solid state feel. Glad to hear the tube is working. How do you like the treasure tube!?!
mindhead1
599
Apr 11, 2018
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B1gdee05Right on schedule. After about 72 hours the hum from my Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB is gone. My issue now is with the HP/RCA 6AS7G. Music sounds very clear and detailed with it, but the treble peaks a little to high for my liking. The stock tube doesn't have the same thump or clarity, but doesn't hurt my ears. I can see how this tube stuff can get out of hand quick.
mindhead1
599
Apr 12, 2018
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pvrseGreat song.
I bit the bullet and ordered the Shuguang Treasure. I should have it by Friday.
Also, found this post. Everything you ever wanted to know about the 6SN7 tubes.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/
I bit the bullet and ordered the Shuguang Treasure. I should have it by Friday.
Also, found this post. Everything you ever wanted to know about the 6SN7 tubes.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/
B1gdee05
341
Apr 12, 2018
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pvrsePvrse... I take my hat off to you because the combination of the rolling tubes that was recommended for the Dark voice 336se is the business..
The sound and imaging is something else. I cannot explain in words however its like 3d coming from the top of my head and then from behind. The highs is precise but not piercing where it becomes uncomfortable, and the middle and lows is present in but not overwhelming. The Sennheiser 6XX is not known for lows but boy this is the business.
Yes I am now a believer, a convertor. Absolutely top notch.
The volume doesn't even have to be any more than 8 o'clock. So I know this has power to go even higher.
The sound and imaging is something else. I cannot explain in words however its like 3d coming from the top of my head and then from behind. The highs is precise but not piercing where it becomes uncomfortable, and the middle and lows is present in but not overwhelming. The Sennheiser 6XX is not known for lows but boy this is the business.
Yes I am now a believer, a convertor. Absolutely top notch.
The volume doesn't even have to be any more than 8 o'clock. So I know this has power to go even higher.
pvrse
54
Apr 13, 2018
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B1gdee05And thanks man, i do audio shit all day. so I should know my shit. I found these two tubes give the most invredible sound to most tube amps even the woo 22 for instance, and clear any issue with the sen HD 600 line lacking bass. The tubes in combo restore the low end perfectly with tight precise sound
mindhead1
599
Apr 14, 2018
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B1gdee05The Treasurer arrived this afternoon. It's awesome. No hum. Paired with the RCA 6AS7 it takes the edge of the treble. The low end is full and the snare and bass drums hit hard. Amy Winehouse - You Know I'm No Good sounds sweet. Stevie Wonder - I Wish is my treble test and with the Treasurer in the DV336SE it passes with flying colors. The highs are present and exciting but not harsh and irritating.
I've only listened for a couple of hours, but so far I'm impressed.
Chain: Google Play Music -> Chromecast Audio -> DV336SE -> 6xx
I've only listened for a couple of hours, but so far I'm impressed.
Chain: Google Play Music -> Chromecast Audio -> DV336SE -> 6xx
tunejunky
24
Apr 14, 2018
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mindhead1the RCA 6AS7 is legendary. in fact you can still get N.O.S.(new old stock) tubes made in the 80's in the U.S.A.
and between the RCA and the telefunken (N.O.S.) there is a wide gulf, with a severe drop off in reliability and sound quality to every Chinese tube i've ever heard.
pvrse
54
Apr 18, 2018
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pvrse@mindhead1 you as well, try the song you'll understand why these tubes need to be in every DV with the senn 600 line
Eli35
653
Jun 12, 2018
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PEW272First of all, the DV 336se is meant to drive high impedance headphones (let's say >200ohm), and it won't sound good driving anything with lower impedance, so you could only drive the DT770 and HD6XX.
Second, the difference is very subjective: some people might prefer the more detailed & analytical sound of the LD, some other might enjoy the warmth & soundstage of the DV. Both have more than enought power to drive high impedance headphones like the DT770 or HD600/650/6XX, specially the DV: LD is meant to drive lower impedances, like planar magnetics, but is capable of driving higher impedances pretty good, while DV won't drive any low impedance headphones without sounding like crap.
Third, my comparison is not "fair", because I've rolled tubes & opamps on the LD until finding a good setup for both my HD6XX and HE-4XX (ask for suggestions if you wanna know, those sell really cheap and difference is 100% worth), while my DV has stock chinese crappy tubes (I wanted to buy better tubes, but couldn't afford it until a few days ago).
Now, from my experience, I prefer the DV for the HD6XX but not by a huge margin. It sounds more pleasant from the DV, indeed, and has way better bass (and a bit more sub-bass too). Soundstage is bigger too, and DV adds more "tube sound" (aka harmonic distortion) and warmth than LD. But on the other hand LD sounds more "accurate", has more clarity & detail and it's easier to tell minor sonic differences between records. I'd say LD is better for analytical listening, and DV better for relaxed listening. And since HD6XX are not too analytical per se, both bring something to the table: a bit more detail to compensate for the natural character of the headphones, or even more warmth and forgiveness for the ultimate relaxed listening experience.
It also depends a lot on the music you listen: for bassy genres like EDM, hip hop or anything like, DV is clearly the way to go, giving the HD6XX a much more impactful, beefy, textured bass (but controlled and non intrusive). On the other hand, for classical music LD might be more revealing and richer in detail, allowing you to hear nuances that DV will probably not.
I guess better tubes on DV will improve the sound even further: according to my readings there's a huge difference after upgrading tubes, way more than on hybrid amps like the LD I+, and you can also customize the sound according to your preferences by using different models.
To sum up, I'd say LD I+ stock vs DV stock is a unfair comparison: LD can be bought for <$100 while DV drops for ~$200. And LD with better tubes and opamp is still cheaper than stock DV (maybe you can spend ~$130-150 for the full package), and tubes for the DV are way more expensive too, so they play on different leagues. Is it worth the upgrade? It depends on a lot of things, it's hard to tell. What I can tell you, is that if you plan to drive several high impedance headphones and you enjoy the "tube sound", DV is probably the best price-performance "budget-ish" amp right now. But get your wallet ready, because stock tubes must be replaced in order to enjoy the "full experience", and replacements are not cheap: after a lot of searching on eBay, I found power + driver tube for ~$80 total, inc. shipping, because I'm splitting shipping costs with a friend; but those are not the best tubes you can find, by far.
Second, the difference is very subjective: some people might prefer the more detailed & analytical sound of the LD, some other might enjoy the warmth & soundstage of the DV. Both have more than enought power to drive high impedance headphones like the DT770 or HD600/650/6XX, specially the DV: LD is meant to drive lower impedances, like planar magnetics, but is capable of driving higher impedances pretty good, while DV won't drive any low impedance headphones without sounding like crap.
Third, my comparison is not "fair", because I've rolled tubes & opamps on the LD until finding a good setup for both my HD6XX and HE-4XX (ask for suggestions if you wanna know, those sell really cheap and difference is 100% worth), while my DV has stock chinese crappy tubes (I wanted to buy better tubes, but couldn't afford it until a few days ago).
Now, from my experience, I prefer the DV for the HD6XX but not by a huge margin. It sounds more pleasant from the DV, indeed, and has way better bass (and a bit more sub-bass too). Soundstage is bigger too, and DV adds more "tube sound" (aka harmonic distortion) and warmth than LD. But on the other hand LD sounds more "accurate", has more clarity & detail and it's easier to tell minor sonic differences between records. I'd say LD is better for analytical listening, and DV better for relaxed listening. And since HD6XX are not too analytical per se, both bring something to the table: a bit more detail to compensate for the natural character of the headphones, or even more warmth and forgiveness for the ultimate relaxed listening experience.
It also depends a lot on the music you listen: for bassy genres like EDM, hip hop or anything like, DV is clearly the way to go, giving the HD6XX a much more impactful, beefy, textured bass (but controlled and non intrusive). On the other hand, for classical music LD might be more revealing and richer in detail, allowing you to hear nuances that DV will probably not.
I guess better tubes on DV will improve the sound even further: according to my readings there's a huge difference after upgrading tubes, way more than on hybrid amps like the LD I+, and you can also customize the sound according to your preferences by using different models.
To sum up, I'd say LD I+ stock vs DV stock is a unfair comparison: LD can be bought for <$100 while DV drops for ~$200. And LD with better tubes and opamp is still cheaper than stock DV (maybe you can spend ~$130-150 for the full package), and tubes for the DV are way more expensive too, so they play on different leagues. Is it worth the upgrade? It depends on a lot of things, it's hard to tell. What I can tell you, is that if you plan to drive several high impedance headphones and you enjoy the "tube sound", DV is probably the best price-performance "budget-ish" amp right now. But get your wallet ready, because stock tubes must be replaced in order to enjoy the "full experience", and replacements are not cheap: after a lot of searching on eBay, I found power + driver tube for ~$80 total, inc. shipping, because I'm splitting shipping costs with a friend; but those are not the best tubes you can find, by far.
PEW272
46
Jun 12, 2018
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Eli35Thank you, that is one of the most informative reads I've had.
I guess I'll have to go around listening to more tube amps for the "tube sound". I bought the LD I+ initially for the tube sound, then found that I could not hear much difference between the amp and from my computer directly. I guess I'm just too new to all this. Thank you though!
I guess I'll have to go around listening to more tube amps for the "tube sound". I bought the LD I+ initially for the tube sound, then found that I could not hear much difference between the amp and from my computer directly. I guess I'm just too new to all this. Thank you though!
Eli35
653
Jun 12, 2018
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PEW272Since you already have the LD I+, I strongly encourage you to buy better tubes and opamp in order to get a much better sound for just a little money. Let me know if you need some suggestions, my current setup for the HD6XX are Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV tubes (often misspelled "Voshkod") and 2x BB OPA627 op amps (with a dual to single DIP-8 adapter). Upgrade your LD, and if you still can't hear a difference don't even consider getting a DV because that might be a waste of money. There's nothing wrong with that, sound is subjective and what sounds different or better for ones might sound the same or worse for others, so if you like the sound of your headphones from the LD stick to that and enjoy, it's not a bad amp by any means.
laurencerobinsontenor1
9
Jul 9, 2020
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pvrsehi mate isn't the shuguang treasure just beautiful!!! wonderful sound immediately great tube!!!
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6080 tung sol NOS shanguang treasure for the 6ns7
That is where you can stop the tube rolling and call it there's nothing like it with the senheiser 600 series line. Trust me get those tubes and be amazed.
As for a dac I've tried high to low end, anything from the modi uber to the dragonfly cost area of a dac will suffice there's no need for anything costlier