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A community member
Jul 25, 2016
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I know wages are up in the big manufacturing centers like Zhongshan, but not enough to justify this. People can buy "premium" Chinese jeans at Gap, Uniqlo, etc. for half this price or less. Jeans are worth this much ONLY when they're made in countries that enforce protection for workers and the environment. Massdrop is (was?) one of few places where we could get the real thing affordably. I'm hoping to see it again soon.
Jul 25, 2016
Doublewood_Denim
46
DoubleWood
Jul 25, 2016
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@Kinami Agreed there will always be denim that cost as low as $20-80. To illustrate as a food analogy, there will always be a value burger from MCD (or any chain for that matter) vs a $10+ gourmet burger. While we don't anticipate to compete in the lowest spectrum, we see our denim craftsmanship/ details differently & here's why:
In essence, nothing wrong with Gap/ Uniqlo type of denim (simply refer as denim choices, not touching on the whole corporate/mass-driven mfg process topic, lets save it for a different day, shall we? ;) I wud always like to think ours are a bit more tangible. To put this in context, our regular standard details: hidden rivets/ lined backpocket/ raised belt loop/ slanted button opening/ batch specific single felled inseam color/ hand stamped, numbered small batch production..etc. all these required special tooling/ skill set/ extra dedication, to get done right. And that's why these details may not be as often seen on a pair of denim w/ lower price pt.
These seemingly subtle details are critical to us and to many of the fellow denimheads, from both aesthetic and heritage perspective.
Also, we did not just randomly pick a CN factory for cost sake. The reason we started this denim project is primarily because of the family heritage: the Zhongshan denim workshop is our family owned & operated, w/ 30 yrs experience in denim making and now helmed by its 3rd generation. With this strong collaborative connection, we can assure our jeans went thru more stringent QC in lieu of cutting corners (with the understanding that the convention CN-made goods often come w/ such bad rap). More importantly, being family owned, we can ensure our tailors are ethically treated in a safe working environment. As a quick eg, our dedicated team of (3) Doublewood head tailors have been with us for almost 10 years. Since you have pointed out labor cost inflation in ZS, presumably you would also understand how difficult it became to retain experience talents, particular for garment making that required a higher level of skill set.
We strive to offer a pair of solid (and yet still somewhat reasonably priced) denim that take a step further in terms of details/back story & passion, than the usual-chain-store type of denim.
But then these are really just our words. Hopefully you will be able to pick up a pair of ours one day and compare side by side with your own fav pair of denim. Wishfully you will then share our vision and acknowledge where we stand.
Appreciate your read thru to this pt (lol), we always enjoy an engaging dialogue. Cheers!
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Jul 25, 2016
A community member
Jul 26, 2016
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Doublewood_DenimI'm not saying that other people shouldn't buy these--I don't doubt the quality, and I wish the Lin family the best in their move up the value chain. If MD needs to make a little extra profit off products like this so they can offer drops with a smaller customer base, I don't mind. But Massdrop should know that they'll lose credibility if every Men's Style drop starts coming out of a "small factory" in Dhaka or Ho Chi Minh or some other center of outsourced manufacturing. I won't pay more for a "gourmet burger" with beef from the same farm as McDonalds. It's OK if other people think there's enough of a difference for them. But MD needs to know that some of us will never settle for a manufacturing location that isn't transparently socially responsible.
Jul 26, 2016
IanAnderson
2590
Jul 26, 2016
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If you don't want to buy these because they're made in China, that's totally fine. With that said, I want to make sure that people aren't making claims or assumptions based solely on this fact. I can assure you that if you held these in one hand and a pair of Uniqlo jeans in the other, you would immediately notice the differences. The reason Doublewood is considered a high-value jean is because they have a lot of great construction details (mentioned above and in the copy) that you don't normally see on jeans in this price range. I was just at a trade show in NYC talking with denim brands from the US and Japan, and when I said we worked with Doublewood, they all said basically the same thing - "oh nice - they make a great jean at a solid price".
I want to have a great discussion here that welcomes opinions and feedback but I also want to make sure that no assumptions are being stated as fact. Please keep this in mind when posting, especially when referring to sensitive topics like country of origin. We work with many different types of brands here - from single artisans to huge multi-million dollar companies - and we'll always do as much as we can to portray the products honestly and accurately.
Jul 26, 2016
A community member
Jul 27, 2016
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IanAndersonAs I said in my original post, I'm sure the craftsmanship of these jeans is fine. Country of origin is sensitive because it matters--here in Korea most of our air pollution comes across the sea from Chinese factories (I track it with a great Chinese app). I used to think that responsibly made clothes always meant $100 t-shirts and $300 jeans, and it was Massdrop that showed me that there are more affordable options. I don't mind that this drop is offered. I have Chinese clothes that I'm happy with. But I'll mind if MD gives up ALL the drops made in places with environmental and worker protection. All I'm saying is, please don't go down that road.
Jul 27, 2016
IanAnderson
2590
Jul 27, 2016
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We'll continue to offer products in a variety of styles, pricepoints, and countries of origin, don't worry :)
Jul 27, 2016
Elsid
697
Jul 17, 2017
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Doublewood_DenimThey could save money on denim and sell more, by offering reasonable lengths.
Jul 17, 2017
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