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Baner
66
Jan 5, 2017
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I am not going to comment on the sound of the Teaks as Tyll did a decent review of these on Innerfidelity. My point is to provide feedback to Chan for the next drop. My biggest compliant about these headphones is with the quality of the cable and the headband, especially for the price; the cable is far too rigid, a bit heavy and is too sensitive to microphonics while the headband needs more clamping pressure - it also looks as though the material covering it could easily detach. I own a pair of Oppo PM2; if the E-MU could rival the build quality of those cans, which not only come with a better quality cable but a second cable designed for portable use and a carrying case, they would be the bargain that a Massdrop product is supposed to be. The Oppos retail for the same price as the E-MU Teak regular non Massdrop price and they use proprietary planer magnetic drivers that they designed and developed themselves, and they sound great (check out the many reviews). They seem to be built for very long term use, while the E-MU don't. My other big complaint is the amount of leakage from these supposedly sealed headphones - perhaps more clamping pressure might improve that. The Oppos are open backed and leak just a bit more. Quite honestly, if Massdrop were to offer the Oppo PM2 for the same price, they would be a much better purchase.
Cking96
145
Jan 5, 2017
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BanerThese are not "sealed"closed headphones...sorry you didn't know they leaked.
As far as "not built to last" comment I have to politely disagree....
As far as "not built to last" comment I have to politely disagree....
Baner
66
Jan 5, 2017
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Cking96These certainly are not "open back" headphones either - they are closed back headphones that leak, just like most of the Fostex variants. So the question one has to ask is: what is the point of a closed back headphone that leaks when you can buy an open back headphone like the HE 400i, HD 600, HD 650 and Oppo PM2, for roughly the same price or less?
Regarding build quality, I am not the only person who has posted that has commented on this. All the headphones I mentioned above are more sturdy than these.
Regarding build quality, I am not the only person who has posted that has commented on this. All the headphones I mentioned above are more sturdy than these.
Cking96
145
Jan 6, 2017
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BanerTo reply to your question:
Because of the Teaks spectacular sound signature...none of the above headphones that you mention have the low end bass of these phones!
Baner
66
Jan 6, 2017
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Cking96No, I just own a pair of pair of the Oppos and I used them as a comparison because they retail regularly for the exact same price as the E-MU Teak and both the build quality and comfort for the price are very impressive compared to the E-MU. Really, they are one of the best built headphones on the market. This is not to say that they don't have their flaws - the cups could be a bit bigger, mids are a bit too forward, the higher frequencies can sound a tad synthetic and they sound a bit closed for open back cans but other than that they sound fantastic.
Baner
66
Jan 6, 2017
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Cking96I am still burning mine in, so I cannot yet comment. Although, Tyll mentioned that there was a bit of bloom to the bass. The bass of the Oppos is very tight and controlled but probably does not have the same sub bass presence as the E-MU. Do you know if the mids with the ebony cups is more attenuated and warm than with the Teaks as it appears to be on the frequency response graph? The mids of the Oppos are fabulous - their best feature. But I guess it also all depends on what music one listens to.
fjrabon
456
Jan 11, 2017
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BanerJust buy a different headphone. This driver can't be sealed. Foster designed it to be vented. ive seen people seal this driver and it sounds like complete garbage that way.
If you want a sealed, closed back design then buy a sealed closed back design. This is not a sealed design. This is basically like telling the Sennheiser engineers "I'd like my HD6XX closed, please work on that for next drop."
again, I cant state enough: this driver is NOT DESIGNED TO BE SEALED. It will sound like garbage if you try to make it sealed. Buy a different headphone. Sell your headphone.
If you want a sealed, closed back design then buy a sealed closed back design. This is not a sealed design. This is basically like telling the Sennheiser engineers "I'd like my HD6XX closed, please work on that for next drop."
again, I cant state enough: this driver is NOT DESIGNED TO BE SEALED. It will sound like garbage if you try to make it sealed. Buy a different headphone. Sell your headphone.
wordfool
118
Jan 11, 2017
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BanerSounds like they're completely different sound signatures. The Em-U sound signature is u-shaped. The Oppo sound sig is most definitely not. Like comparing apples and oranges (and dynamic vs. planar). Price-wise, the PM-2 is significantly more expensive than the Massdrop EM-U price, at least in the US. It's sort of an odd comparison to be pushing.
Baner
66
Jan 11, 2017
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wordfoolThe regular non Massdrop price of E-MU Teak are the same as that of the PM2. My point was that if the PM2 were offered on Massdrop for the same discount, resulting in about the sane price they would be a good purchase because the build quality is so good. The ss of E-MU Teak are only slightly U shaped and played through the Burson Soloist MKII the mids are right up front, in your face, just like the PM2. No U shape at all.
fjrabon
456
Jan 11, 2017
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Banerno, it makes sense because the drivers were specifically designed to be used in a closed, vented back design. Just like the HD6XX drivers were designed to be used in an open back design, and just like the Audio Technica M50X drivers were designed to be used in a closed, sealed design. If you want to make a drastic change like going from vented to sealed, you have to completely re-design the actual transducer itself, not just "make it sealed." As you may or may not know, Chan doesn't design the driver on these, Foster does, and as such, he couldn't even do that if he wanted to.
If you were to take yours apart, you can see that the inner assembly is specifically made so that pressure can pass through the driver baffle and out through the venting ports. The design of the transducer is such that if this venting doesn't occur, it creates an interior standing wave and it kills the bass. You can test this out yourself if you want, just simply tape up the gap between the wood and headphone assembly around the edge of the headphone. Then you can enjoy awful sounding, but completely sealed headphones.
Believe me, I have heard people try to make these sealed, I've even seen people completely create sealed cups from scratch - even Mark Lawton tried it a few times, it just doesn't work with this driver. Things are more complex than your overly simplistic "it's closed, closed is closed." It needs precisely the venting it has. This design has been around for about 20 years now.
It's fine that you don't like the vented, closed design. Again, simply buy another headphone, these are not sealed, they aren't made to be sealed, and sealing them would destroy how they sound. If Foster was going to make this design sealed, they'd have done it 15 years ago.
If you were to take yours apart, you can see that the inner assembly is specifically made so that pressure can pass through the driver baffle and out through the venting ports. The design of the transducer is such that if this venting doesn't occur, it creates an interior standing wave and it kills the bass. You can test this out yourself if you want, just simply tape up the gap between the wood and headphone assembly around the edge of the headphone. Then you can enjoy awful sounding, but completely sealed headphones.
Believe me, I have heard people try to make these sealed, I've even seen people completely create sealed cups from scratch - even Mark Lawton tried it a few times, it just doesn't work with this driver. Things are more complex than your overly simplistic "it's closed, closed is closed." It needs precisely the venting it has. This design has been around for about 20 years now.
It's fine that you don't like the vented, closed design. Again, simply buy another headphone, these are not sealed, they aren't made to be sealed, and sealing them would destroy how they sound. If Foster was going to make this design sealed, they'd have done it 15 years ago.
Baner
66
Jan 11, 2017
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fjrabonThanks for explaining the nature and design of the Foster/Fostex driver used in these headphones. My "overly simplistic, it's closed, closed, closed" is nothing more than a reflection of the information provided in the Massdrop description/spec sheet, which said nothing more than, "Type: Circumaural, closed-back." No mention at all of venting. Tyll's review on Innerfidelity describes the original Denon AH-DX000 series, in the "Foster variants" article in which the E-MU Teaks are reviewed, as "semi-sealed." But I did not take that to mean, as it was not clear, that it was a design element of the driver used in all the variants, as opposed to just the Denon line of headphones. Add to that, I am not sure the drivers used in the E-MU are exactly the same as those used in Denons, even if they are Fosters. And if one had not read that article, how would one know that the drivers are a foster 443742 and designed to be in a semi-sealed enclosure? So, in all honesty, considering the dearth of information about these cans, is it fair ,and not somewhat arrogant, for you to characterise my comments as "simplistic"?
If, as you imply, the venting takes place through the gap between the cup and the frame, does that mean that the ss can be changed by tightening or loosening the screws that holds the cup to the frame? The reason I ask is that the gap was bigger on one part of the left phone than the right, so I tightened the screw. But I now wonder, were measurements taken and was there an engineering decision made to determine what the optimal gap should be? For example, the Mr. Speakers Ether C line of headphones is vented but I think that much thought was put into the nature of that vent in terms of how Dan Clark wanted to tune those headphones. Again, there is no information about this provided, especially to those who want swap out the cups. What size gap should they leave?
fjrabon
456
Jan 11, 2017
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BanerI didn't mean your understanding was over simplistic necessarily as any fault of yours, but rather that it just was that, overly simplistic.
Yes, these are definitely Foster OEMs.
The gap size seems to make not that big of a difference in size, as the ports aren't more or less sealed if they're tightened. But feel free to experiment, it shouldn't harm anything.
Yes, these are definitely Foster OEMs.
The gap size seems to make not that big of a difference in size, as the ports aren't more or less sealed if they're tightened. But feel free to experiment, it shouldn't harm anything.
Baner
66
Jan 11, 2017
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fjrabonOverly simplistic perhaps in the context of these specific drivers but semi-sealed headphones are rare and not even Innerfidelity recognizes them as a category. So for the most part, headphones are thought of as either sealed or not, no?
From what I understand, the venting takes place through that gap between the cup and frame, at least that's the how Tyll explains it in his review/description of the Denon AH-DX000 line of headphones. Would it not stand to reason that closing that gap would affect how these headphones vent and as such the resonances in the chamber?
From what I understand, the venting takes place through that gap between the cup and frame, at least that's the how Tyll explains it in his review/description of the Denon AH-DX000 line of headphones. Would it not stand to reason that closing that gap would affect how these headphones vent and as such the resonances in the chamber?
fjrabon
456
Jan 11, 2017
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BanerWell, sort of. That is the ultimate escape point yes, but it passes through a smaller vent before that gap, and since the gap around the edge of the cups is larger than the vent before, it doesn't significantly change the sound to screw it tighter. You can loosen it to the point where it rattles, and obviously that changes the sound. But based on experimenting, "gap size" seems to make little/no difference.
One interesting point to note is thay every significant design that has ever used bio cellulose drivers has been closed back and vented. This includes perhaps the greatest headphone of all time: Sony R10.
One interesting point to note is thay every significant design that has ever used bio cellulose drivers has been closed back and vented. This includes perhaps the greatest headphone of all time: Sony R10.
Baner
66
Jan 12, 2017
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I get all of that but considering the rarity of semi-sealed headphones, the fact that most consumers and reviewers alike generally categorize as either open back or closed (no semi-open category on Innerfidelity), I think it is incumbent upon both the retailer and manufacturer, in this case Massdrop and Creative/E-MU to specify that their headphones are semi-open. Nowhere on the E-MU or Massdrop website do they state that the headphones are semi-open let alone the fact that the drivers are a OEM Fosters. Independent research would have to be rather deep to make that discovery, considering the death of information about these headphones. There is now a new drop for these cans and while the Denons are mentioned, once again no mention of the fact that these are semi-open, which leads me to wonder if perhaps there is some deception involved.
fjrabon
456
Jan 12, 2017
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I agree the descriptions should be better. One thing I will give them slack on though is not stating these are Foster OEM. Typically the OEM agreement forbids statement of that by the company or any re-sellers.
dnzeiler
3
Jan 13, 2017
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BanerI think you will find several headphones on the inner fidelity site the the category "Closed" back that are also "vented" or "semi-closed", the best example is the V-moda M100. Who cares if it is vented or not? I agree what maters is how well it isolation the outside world. Even "open" or "closed" or "Sealed" to not describe it well enough to be useful, as ear pads also have a big effect on it. the best way to determineit to look at the measured graphs that Tyll makes on the isolation, as you can see it is always frequency dependent.
Baner
66
Jan 13, 2017
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dnzeilerI agree and disagree. If a vented closed back headphone provides the isolation I need then yeah, I don't care that it is vented. But whether a headphone is closed, open, semi-open, etc. is a design element of the headphone, as is the type of driver - dynamic, orthodynamic, etc. and earpad used - circumaural, supraaural, etc. and as such an indication as to the design objectives. When trying to decide what kind of headphone to buy I think most people begin by looking at a variety of design factors to give them a sense of how it will perform. If I needed a headphone to monitor while recording in a studio I wouldn't even think about looking at open or even semi-open headphones. Havining said that, if a headphones is designed to perform in a certain way does not mean that it will do it well. That's why we rely on people like Tyll to provide the results of their own measurements and impressions. The more information the better. Ideally, all manufacturers should provide the same kind of measurements and technical detail Tyll does but we would still need people like him to corroborate or refute the information. In absence of that information, we should at least be provided with the basic design characteristics of the headphone, no?
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