Eterna Grace Open Art Automatic Ladies' Watch Discussions | Drop

Dec 8, 2018

A lovely Swatch, but 26 jewel seems excessive when the ébauche has so few complications. Worth maybe 300 to 500, but not more than that.

boozed

297

Dec 9, 2018

SDanteWhy do you keep calling this a Swatch? And why do you say that what is probably the most popular Swiss automatic movement in history has too many jewels?

(Edited)

Dec 9, 2018

boozedI call it a swatch because it is, at least a 60% swatch, ébauche inside a flashy case. The rest could be just Chinese parts. The case doesn't matter nearly as much as the movement. This is far from a spectacular watch, even if it is popular amongst people who don't know about watches. A wheel needs 2 jewels, not all wheels require jewels. 26 jewel implies a minimum of 12 wheels and one balance. The watch has a date complication but doesn't need 12 wheels to operate. This is not the best self-winder, it's made by a good company, but it's mediocre. Look at the movement, assay marks will show the maker to be ETA, which is swatch, your second watch, not your good watch.

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Dec 9, 2018

SDanteexcuse me what does your "swatch" mean?

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Dec 10, 2018

guisess93Like I said, swatch is a S'Watch, second watch, since they were always meant to be of disposable quality. It's called a contraction. Swatch owns ETA, ETA produces the majority of ébauches and parts, other companies but their brand on the outside. Inside, it is still a Swatch, even if it's an Omega or Tag Heur, it's actually a rebadged Swatch. Most off my collection predates Swatch, though I do have one given to be on the day I was born, 1983, which is one of the first Swatches to be made. What did you think Swatch meant? It's always symbolised disposability.

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Dec 10, 2018

SDanteso you're saying ETA only worth to be in "second watch"?

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Dec 10, 2018

guisess93No. ETA is a subsidiary of Swatch. ETA, which Swatch owns, makes ébauche movements and other parts. The name "Swatch" is a contraction of Second WATCH because they were intended to be cheap and disposable. ETA SA acquired a very large portion of watch makers who were facing bankruptcy. Many of the best watchmakers moved from London, France and Germany to Switzerland to join. The quartz revolution saw a decline in popularity of mechanical movements, Swatch was created to meet the new demand and produced large quantities of cheap watches and acquired ETA SA. ETA and Swatch different but the same. ETA make some very good movements. You could call ETA Swatch if you want since it's entirely owned by Swatch. Which returns us to the contraction "Swatch", your second watch only worth a little and intended as a throw away item. Companies are not just one man and modern high-end watches are overpriced.

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Dec 10, 2018

SDantewell I do agree that Swatch watches only deserve to be "second watch", but why did you say that this Eterna model is a Swatch as well?

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Dec 10, 2018

guisess93Eterna do not make their own mechanisms. Inside this watch you will find an ETA ébauche movement, which is Swatch. At least 60% of the movement is Swiss, which allows it to be called Swiss made.

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Dec 10, 2018

SDanteETA belongs to Swatch Group, Swatch belongs to Swatch Group. ETA is a movement company, Swatch is a watch company. They are 2 different companies, only that both belong to the same Swatch Group. Eterna is NOT Swatch, and does NOT belong to Swatch Group for that matter. Please use your term carefully.

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Dec 10, 2018

guisess93Eterna does not belong to Swatch. The mechanism inside is produced by ETA and sold in ébauche form to eternal. ETA is a wholly owned SUBSIDIARY of Swatch. ETA primary build ébauche movements and parts but also just enough watches to be classed as a watch manufacturer. 3 companies are involved, ETA is just a subsidiary of Swatch. Eterna is just a finisher, they buy and assemble parts then put their name on it. I prefer solid gold to a gilt rock. You will learn to look past how shiny things are and focus on value and quality.

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Dec 10, 2018

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Dec 10, 2018

SDanteETA is NOT a subsidiary of Swatch. ETA is a subsidiary of Swatch Group. As I said, please use the terms correctly before preaching about value and quality. And may I ask what is your definition and example of "solid gold"?

boozed

297

Dec 11, 2018

SDanteBoy, are you loopy. Either way, Eterna does make its own movements, just not the one in this watch.

Dec 11, 2018

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Dec 11, 2018

boozedthinking positively, I guess he's not silly, just a bit careless/sloppy in using terms, but that is enough to make his arguments invalid and confusing as hell. Especially with that part of "swatch = second watch" jesus :)))

(Edited)

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Dec 11, 2018

guisess93If you prefer that I stick to strictly horological terminology I assure you I can. I prefer more lay terms for the salad user like yourself because I find grandiloquence unbecoming. Swatch is not "Swatch Group" sic., it is Swatch Group Ltd., they own Nestle, Colgate and an ébauche company commonly known as ETA, or ETA SA to give their full name. It is common practice to refer to a company by their generic name instead of their full title. I quote "...the company (ETA SA) is headquartered in Grenchen, Switzerland and is a wholly owned subsidiary of The Swatch Group Ltd." Something being made of solid gold, as opposed to simply having a thin covering of gold (gilt), is another idiom whereby the person is being advised to look beyond just the surface and consider what lays beneath. Perhaps Robert Plant put it best. "There's a lady who's sure, all that glitters is gold. And she's buying a stairway to heaven." You, are the lady he speaks of.

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Dec 11, 2018

SDanteI guess you're too smart for me to catch up :)) Everytime you say "swatch", I have to guess whether you mean it as a watch company, as a group, or as "second watch". But well, not like I can do anything about your language use or attitude anyway. You don't even know what watches I have, and already judged me as glitter-lover. But well, not like I care about your judgementalism anyway. What I'm curious to know (which I asked but you seemed to miss my point), is your specific example of a "solid gold" watch? By specific example, I mean the exact name/model of the watch, i.e. "watch brand" + "model number/series". Hope I made myself clear :)

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Dec 11, 2018

guisess93You have confused yourself. Second Watch is where the name Swatch came from, always has been, that's just a historical fact. If I say Swatch I am referring to the group, which owns ETA SA. If I say Swatch watch, I am referring to a watch which is branded as Swatch. If I say Swatch movement, I am referring to one of the ébauche Swatch produces at ETA SA. I never said a solid gold watch, I said something may be made of solid gold, metaphorically it was a comparison between 2 objects of equal appearance but different value. A piece of solid gold and a piece of gilt rock both look the same outwardly. If you have knowledge, you won't be fooled, if not then you may buy something that looks precious but has no actual value. I never said you were a glitter lover, only that you seem easily impressed by outward appearance. Gold watches aren't a smart buy. The case may be gold or gilt, but the wheels in the movement are brass or steel or more recently titanium. Gold is weak and wears quickly, I only have one gold watch, over 150 years and it's still accurate. The assay mark will either show carat, parts per 1000 or time the plating is expected to last. It depends on when it was made but newer watches tend to lack proper marking beyond case maker mark and movement maker mark. I do believe Saddam Hussein gave some of his friends gold watches,

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Dec 11, 2018

SDantejesus this feels like we don't speak the same language. Ok so which model(s)/brand(s) do you think represent "value and quality"?

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Dec 11, 2018

guisess93Look at the history of Swatch and how they came up with their name. You will find it was named by combining the words second and watch to form the contraction Swatch. Google it, go to a library, ask a watch dealer talk to your horologist,... Whatever you think is a reliable source, ask them and they will give you the same story.

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Dec 11, 2018

SDantedude I already moved on from the swatch thingy. I just wanna know which model(s)/brand(s) do you think represent "value and quality"?

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Dec 11, 2018

guisess93It depends on the year and type of watch. You can't simply say one brand is the best. For accuracy, a simple quartz watch is perfect, with the bonus of being cheap. If you want mechanical, there are a few Cartier I like but a double tourbillon is simply flair and they are only needed in pocket watches, if at all. Early Omega were good but the new ones use ébauche movements. 18th and most 19th century watches made in London are excellent, German and French trades in the watch making field were also excellent. The influx of cheap poorly made watches from America means you need to learn your metals and marks. With a suit, you carry a pocket watch. Very few men can wear a double breasted suit and still exude confidence. Wrist watches were intended for women, but were found to be useful in combat. I have an old Rolex being serviced, it's a hunting watch but the face is still uncracked. The wheels all look in good condition and the balance is temperature compensating. Model/brand does not determine value/quality. Quality determines value, model and brand determines how much people will pay.

Dec 11, 2018

guisess93Brands just represent how much someone will pay. Whenever I book a viewing for a watch, I make sure I know every detail so I can examine the quality. There are a lot of models I like, though I prefer an hour and minute hand with a separate second hand. A quarter repeater is nice. Date, tide, et cetera are not important and only serve to add friction. If you are actually after a watch, I can definitely find a model that will do what you want,

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Dec 11, 2018

SDanteyes now we're talking in the same language! Yes I agree with your quality/value point. Just wanna add that both are largely determined by price as well. For eg, in their price point, Omega (early models like you said - speedmaster in particular) had great quality and great value. The same thing can be said about Orient Bambino, Seiko Alpinist, Steinhart Ocean, etc.. in their respective price ranges. But, the thing I've learnt, after years of pursuing value and value and value, is that we ourselves play a tremendous part in the true value of the product. Quality and value of the product is one thing, but we have to understand and appreciate such thing, and IMO above all, we need to like/love it. For eg, the more I like one particular watch, the more I wear it, and thus the more utility it produces, and the more value it has. This is even more true when talking about women's watch. Many of them don't actually care about what movement is inside the watch, but instead how it looks on the outside. I can buy for my wife some good quality mechanical watch, but if she doesn't like its design, then it won't be worn, and then what's the point? Or, get her something fancier, something maybe a bit overpriced, i.e. not good value in the usual definition, but, it also can be something that she truly likes, and she is happy wearing it (provided that the quality is still good enough in my standard). If she's happy, then I'm happy, and that's the real value for me. PS: I myself love power reserve indicator. My 1st watch is Orient Star with PR indicator. 2nd watch is Speake-Marin Wing Commander. Still waiting for JLC to re-produce their discontinued Caliber 924 which all the complications I like: PR indicator, specific master calendar (date hand, month window, day window), and moonphase. Inherited a $20-30k something Rolex from my father, but I don't like it. All of it is gold in color and coupled with some diamond, and the whole thing look horrific in my eyes.

(Edited)

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leopadron

761

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Dec 11, 2018

SDanteSDante, a clarification if I may: Eterna sources ETA movements for some models, but you may be surprised to hear it actually makes its own in house movements for some of its other ones. Eterna is not owned by Swatch. At all. This is simply not a "Swatch watch" as you put it. (Not that that this would even be a bad thing) What's more, in a high form of irony, Eterna is the company responsible for not only creating Eta SA itself, but the very calibre that became the very movement they are now sourcing from ETA for this timepiece. The Eterna-Matic was the original ETA 2800 series movement. They are actually sourcing the descendant of their own creation. :-) The Eterna 12825 (developed in 1975 is the original design for this very movement model) http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Eterna_12825

(Edited)

Dec 11, 2018

leopadronI knew that Eterna originally created ETA SA, but didnt know about the movement story you just said. Such a nice irony :))

Dec 12, 2018

guisess93Eterna did eventually start a subsidiary called ETA SA, it is the best thing they achieved. Eterna started out as a Swiss manufacturer before it was bought by citychamp in Hong Kong. Or, Citychamp Watch & Jewellery Group Ltd. if you prefer the full name. It was an ébauche factory to begin and started declining in value and quality towards the end of the 19th century. They had luck with 20th century watches, but it was never a high quality brand and the company was very poorly run. It has a long history, not a good one. So, in a twist of fate Eterna buys ébauches from an ébauche company that was theirs. The company was started an an ébauche company too. The ETA 2824-3 movement, which is the heart and soul of the watch, is produced by a subsidiary of Swatch. So, while I never actually said this is a Swatch Watch, it is a watch, with the important parts made by Swatch, rebadged as Eterna.

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Dec 12, 2018

leopadronASUAG, now Swatch started the conglomeration known as ETA SA in 1931. Eterna jumped on board a year later and split into two companies, Eterna made watches and ETA SA made ébauches. The conglomeration became later known as ETA SA but was no longer owned by Eterna. So half of what was Eterna is owned by Swatch. The 12825 was also called the ETA2824. It is part of the ETA2004 family. They're a decent movement, nothing to get excited about. Eterna didn't create what we know today as ETA SA, they split their company after its creation and ETA SA Joined what is now a subsidiary of Swatch. All the while selling their best assets to their competition.

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Dec 12, 2018

guisess93Price does not determine quality. Remember, a fool and his money are soon parted. When I say early model Omega, I mean over 100 years ago at least. The old Omega I have are great, the new ones I returned. Even though they are mainly coin silver, they keep time to a second a week or so. I bought a half dozen Rolex from a dealer because they didn't run. Cost a gorilla but after I repaired them I paid off my mortgage. Old watches are profitable. My daily watch I wind each morning and each evening as a matter of ritual. The power reserve indicator is ok the form that I can see the spring. I just remember how tight it needs to be now. I do have a watch with the complications you are after, aside from pr. It also has a gong and quarter repeater. Fully serviced, pin set, key wound, 18k, hunter hinge. Very well made but valuation was high enough I'd throw in a gold chain. It's not a wrist watch, it's a high end watch with all the things you SHOULD get when you pay a small fortune.

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leopadron

761

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Dec 12, 2018

SDante Question to you: Were you thinking about buying this watch for yourself? Because I'm trying to understand your concern over an ETA 2824, which might not impress you as you put it, but otherwise is an incredibly well respected, Swiss Made movement with a long and established track record of success and reliability in many Swiss watches. Obviously people have the right to be enthusiastic about different things. Watch people know it especially.

(Edited)

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