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Wuthoqquan
80
Nov 29, 2015
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Not really sure if joining the drop or not... How does this Fostex compare to the Hifiman HE400i, which is now on sale at US$299 only? That really seems to be an incredible bargain ... and it is holding me from joining this drop, since many positive reviews on the HE400i are available on the web.
Nov 29, 2015
Kozic
30
Nov 29, 2015
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WuthoqquanYou are looking at two very different headphones one is a planar and open ones not. One is very neutral one is a more fun sound. One needs a amp one can work with almost anything. It comes down to what you want or maybe looking for to fill a spot in your collection.
Nov 29, 2015
Wuthoqquan
80
Nov 29, 2015
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KozicYou're absolutely correct... I'm comparing two whole completely different headphones, in terms of tech, sound and amp requirements (even though the HE400i are reported to sound quite well even without amp). I'm well equipped in terms of amps, hence why it's not a factor that would influence my choice anyway... the real and personal consideration that is holding me back from joining this drop is related to the actual retail price these Fostex TH-X00 would be sold at, if they were on the market, which is in my opinion more realistically in the order of US$ 500/550 rather than the alleged US$ 1,000. The Hifiman HE400i normally retails exactly at US$ 499, while they are currently on sale for US$ 299, which makes them quite appealing... probably even more than these Fostex, since with the HE400i there would be a tangible discount of US$ 200, for a pair of headphones that are highly praised by almost everybody! I have the feeling that the real saving with the TH-X00 is much less pronounced than it would appear at first glance. While this drop will be still available for the next few days, the sale on the Hifiman store will end tomorrow, so I'll to come up with a decision at the soonest...
Nov 29, 2015
Kozic
30
Nov 29, 2015
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WuthoqquanI'm willing to bet the fair market value if sold in stores would be $799 . They would fall in-between the TH600 and 900.
Nov 29, 2015
OnePunchMan
330
Nov 29, 2015
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WuthoqquanRetail would be double, imo. We are getting these nearly at cost+$$$ that MD and Fostex would make off then (rightfully so). Add retail distribution channels/logistics/marketing I can see it go for double. And according to what early reviews have indicated, these cans punch above their weight in terms of what they cost here due to their performance as "fun" cans. Sounds like you made your decision with the he400i. If you're a flipper, then these would be the better buy since you cant "buy" these phones off retail.
Nov 29, 2015
fortiter
172
Nov 29, 2015
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WuthoqquanNot sure if this is a factor for you, but I use my HE-400 a lot, but the weight is starting to drive me insane. I sit at my desk for many hours at a time either listening to music or playing games, and the planar headphones' weight is pretty insane after that long of a session, causing neck pain in some cases.
Nov 29, 2015
Wuthoqquan
80
Nov 29, 2015
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fortiterMany thanks for chiming in with your warning about the weight of the HE400! This is something I was also trying to check... long listening sessions do occur from time to time. I shall weigh in this factor too! Thank you!
Nov 29, 2015
ZALHERA
843
Nov 29, 2015
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WuthoqquanThe thing with Massdrop exclusives is, you have to look at the drop price as the retail price. Simply put, no other stores would carry these headphones, therefore with Massdrop being the only source, its price is the only price. These are not $500 retail, nor $1000 retail. They're $400 at regular price, and that is as low as they go as well. No hope of sales, no hope of clearnaces. Just... $400. Always will be.
In other words, what I'm trying to say is don't base your decision based on the "savings" criteria. Look at the prices presented to you at this moment: $399 vs $299. $100 difference, period. Because in the end, savings don't mean anything if you're settling for headphones you don't want. $150 for the Beats Pro that retail for $500 or whatever dumb price they have, but I still will not drop that cash on those. I will choose, for example, the DT990s we see on Massdrop for $200-$250, but I can usually get locally for $300.
Now if I did want the Beats Pro, sure, I'll bite. But I won't do it because of the savings, I'd do it because I wanted those headphones. Same for you. Do you want the TH-X00 or the HE400i? Don't think about the savings, pick what you want to have.
Nov 29, 2015
dwane5
292
Nov 29, 2015
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Wuthoqquanwhat on earth is keeping you from getting them both? perhaps its the FOMO factor. 400i will continue to drop in price as the months go by (maybe). this is an exclusive with fostex. soooooooo
Nov 29, 2015
Wuthoqquan
80
Nov 29, 2015
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ZALHERAYour comment is spot on and absolutely well received! The point is that I've been on the fence for a good pair of cans since quite some time and, had I never heard of this drop, I would have probably clicked on the buy button on the Hifiman website and taken the route of the HE400i. Although very different headphones, what I'm questioning is how they really compare to each other... while in terms of investment, the HE400i would objectively be a nice purchase at the current sale price of $299. As you also mentioned, the price of this TH-X00 cannot be really put against a real retail price for comparison purposes only. Of course, I fully agree with your words and the wise suggestion that any choice should never be based on the price factor only! Thanks again!
Nov 29, 2015
bjw
290
Nov 29, 2015
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WuthoqquanAww man now you have me looking at the HE400i's now.
Even though they are 299 right now. You would still need to update the cable since it's got a godawful 90° angle on the end plus getting better ear pads is a must.
SO in reality, you will be paying more for those than these unless you end up modding the cable on these like I am wanting dual mini xlr (which I am having doubts will work the way the cup is made)
But if the 400i is your first ever pair of Planar Magnetic Headphones. It may be worth it.
Nov 29, 2015
Uzuzu
1431
Nov 29, 2015
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Wuthoqquanthe 400i is way less heavy than the he-400. I don't know what the guy above was even talking about, they are completely different looking and sounding headphones. The 400i retailed for 500 and is going to probably sound pretty amazing, and about as easy to drive as the x00 here. X00 isn't amp picky at all and neither is the 400i really. You gotta just make your choice based on preference. I'd say the two headphones are about equal in comfort and both are going to be pretty balanced. The x00 is going to sound more intimate and natural and overall be pretty engaging. But so is the 400i. That's what the 400i was made to be. Also planar bass is pretty amazing and different than what you get from a dynamic can. I'd say get the 400is, they are a steal at 299 with the new 2.5mm plugs. The x00 is going to drop several more times and when people resell them they will go for way below 400. I own fostex th-600s and have auditioned the th-900s. They're great but even knowing the fostex sound I'm buying myself a pair of 400is this season.
Nov 29, 2015
AdamJ
52
Nov 29, 2015
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WuthoqquanI am getting the both TH-X00 and the 400i, which is a lot of money I know, and I have to say - I'm more excited about getting the 400i. I've never heard a planar headphone, which adds to the excitement, and am expecting the 400i to be the technically superior headphone, although I could be wrong about that. Also, I don't see the 400i dropping far below $500 after the sale because it seems like a popular, successful headphone; it's pretty new as well having only been released for a year or so with numerous very good reviews on it. As far as sound signature goes, I believe the 400i is supposed to be closer to neutral, while the TH-X00 has elevated treble and bass (but not as much as the TH-600 / 900). Also @ Whiskey: I've read the ear pads ("focus pads" I believe) are supposed to be actually pretty decent, although I'm sure that varies from person to person. Also, the 90° angle connector will not affect sound quality so you don't really NEED to get a new cable. Anyways, excited for the TH-X00 I can't wait to hear it, good luck on your decisions!
Nov 29, 2015
Fairingrey
102
Nov 29, 2015
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ZALHERAThe way you put it reminds me of Schiit and their stance on deals.
http://schiit.com/about/on-deals
I think I like it this way (both Massdrop exclusives and Schiit products) because then I don't worry myself on if I'm paying "full price" for something that might go on sale in the future. Plus resale value stays relatively constant. It's just a lot less to worry about. The MSRP of a product I oftentimes look upon with skepticism since some can be deceptively high, such as with the case of the K7XX's sold here. Those are advertised with an MSRP of $600, but they're only really clones of a $450 product. Still great value, but it's just misleading and I wish they could change that.
As for this product's MSRP, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt since it's supposed to have performance on par with the other Fostex TH series headphones (which do cost upwards of $1k USD). But beside that, I still think these offer great value because they're a much more affordable rendition of a sadly discontinued headphone, the Denon D5000/7000.
Sorry for going on about that, but thank you for your wonderful comment!
Nov 29, 2015
ZALHERA
843
Nov 29, 2015
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WuthoqquanYou're welcome. That being said, seeing how you were on the fence on getting the H400i anyway, and this drop kinda just smudged your plans, I'd say get yourself the H400i. When the hype settles and there's 2000 TH-X00s in the public's hands to review, you can then decide if you want these pair down the road. It's pretty much guaranteed to make a return like the K7XX, and if not, used pairs will start selling eventually.
Nov 29, 2015
fjrabon
456
Nov 30, 2015
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bjwWhy would you change the pads on the 400i? The hybrid focus pads were the result of tons of testing to figure out the right pad for the 400i. They're much better than pleather, leather or velour, IMHO. Get the added bass impact of pleather/leather with the comfort and fit of velour.
Nov 30, 2015
bjw
290
Nov 30, 2015
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fjrabonSo because they tested and tested those ear pads I suppose to just use them?
I have sampled them with those pads and I think, in my own opinion, sound to bland to me.
I heard them with pleather hm5 pads and the mr speaker lamb skin pads and they sound more neutral, which to me is good. The pads were able to bring out the detail in the lows and highs without overfilling it
My opinion though
Nov 30, 2015
ColdCoffee
2
Nov 30, 2015
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bjwThe Fulla seems interesting. I might just give it a shot! Thanks for your help!
Nov 30, 2015
Fairingrey
102
Nov 30, 2015
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ColdCoffeeI know I might be singing too much praise about Massdrop but try the CEntrance DACport Slim when its next drop comes around! I'm listening to it right now and I really like it. I think it offers more bang for the buck than the Schiit fulla. Not that Schiit's products are bad (I own a Magni 2) but I think it's another option you could consider within the same price range.
Nov 30, 2015
ColdCoffee
2
Nov 30, 2015
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FairingreyI did check that out too after reading some of the other comments. How much did they drop for?
Also, I have never had an amp/dac, but do they usually color the sound? If so, what would be a good neutral sounding dac/amp combo. I only want the headphones to have any coloration.
Thanks!
Nov 30, 2015
Mshenay
135
Nov 30, 2015
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ColdCoffeeSome amps an dac do add color as others have mentioned the JdsLabs O2/oDac stack is an excellent one to start with! Schiits Magni Modi are also good entry level solid state stacks as well!
If you have a good standing on sites like eBay you can also browse some of the Gently Used gear on some of the Headphone Hobby websites
Nov 30, 2015
ColdCoffee
2
Nov 30, 2015
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MshenayI just might give the schiit stack a go once I get the headphones! Thanks!
Nov 30, 2015
ColdCoffee
2
Nov 30, 2015
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I'll probably wait for the reactions and get the schiit stack! Thanks! These shouldn't be bad without an amp when I get them though, I hope~
Nov 30, 2015
pordssam89
85
Nov 30, 2015
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ColdCoffeeThey won't be bad. Just not optimal. Do you have a particular price range that you want to stay within for your DAC and amp?
Nov 30, 2015
ColdCoffee
2
Nov 30, 2015
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pordssam89As long as they end up sounding better than ath m50s out of the box without an amp, I don't really want to get an amp /dac for now and save enough to get a good one for the future. But if I must get one absolutely, it shouldn't be over 200
Nov 30, 2015
Fairingrey
102
Nov 30, 2015
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ColdCoffee$100 USD, I believe.
Most Solid State amps you usually do not want to color the sound -- it stays relatively transparent. All that's happening is the signal getting louder, neither less in some places or more in other places.
Nov 30, 2015
ZALHERA
843
Nov 30, 2015
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ColdCoffeeYou'll be fine then. Wait and make your DAC/amp purchase when you are ready.
Nov 30, 2015
Fairingrey
102
Nov 30, 2015
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ColdCoffeeI'm going to say right now -- just be patient. You don't necessarily need an amp or a DAC to pair up with these as these are relatively friendly with most audio sources.
If your audio codec or your sound card on your computer sounds particularly bad, then sure, get an amp/dac combo unit.
Anyways, just to summarize some of the options...
* JDS Labs O2/ODAC separate/combo. I find them a bit too expensive, but given what you're paying for (including the support) it's probably worth it. Also comes with the option of customizing it -- you can laser etch your own selected artwork on the O2/combo enclosure with a few extra bucks. * Massdrop O2/ODAC separate/combo. Great bang for the buck. That being said, it costs... $15 extra to have the O2 RCA inputs and power on the back? I prefer that option since I don't like everything on the front. Alas, I don't own this unit, but I have listened to it. * Schiit Magni 2/Modi 2. Both the O2/ODAC are well-known for being a reliable dac/amp combo, but the Magni 2 is almost twice as powerful as the O2 amp, in case in the future you buy any REALLY inefficient headphones. Both units are $100, so they're very competitively priced with the O2/ODAC and have similar performance. * CEntrance DACport Slim. This is seriously amazing -- it has a lot of juice for such a small unit and it just sounds so clean. Huge bang for the buck for $100 -- I would highly recommend you get this as a starter. Although it is advertised as portable, and it certainly doesn't look like the prettiest piece of furniture on your desk, it just performs so well.
My preference for starter desktop dac/amps lie on the Schiit side. I love the way they advertise their products. However, as others have said, I would highly recommend waiting for the CEntrance DACport Slim to redrop on Massdrop. It shouldn't take too long, given how popular they are.
Best of luck to you, hope this was informative...
Nov 30, 2015
AgentTran
2
Nov 30, 2015
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FairingreyHey I had a question to ask. I'm just looking for the best valued headphone that will last me for years to come. Budget isn't such a big deal as is quality sound for money. I don't have a long history with quality headphones, currently I use SRH440's for my desktop computer, but they're far to uncomfortable for my preference. For in-ears and on the go I use a pair of RHA 750i's. Some have said this would be the best headphone for $400, "ever." Is this a better choice over HD598's for $180? Or possibly HD600's +Apure sound cable for $430? I just need a seperate opinion before I drop $415 on this. Let me know, thanks! (and quickly! supply is running out :')
Nov 30, 2015
ColdCoffee
2
Nov 30, 2015
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FairingreyThanks! I have decided not to get an amp/dac for now and probably get an O2 or schiit stack when I want to test the waters!
Thanks everyone for their responses, appreciate it!
Nov 30, 2015
jeffri
139
Nov 30, 2015
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AgentTranIf any, my only concern with this headphone for lasting years is the leatherette pads. I haven't had good experience with fake leather so far, they tend to be flaking in 1-2 year of intensive use. I hope this one isn't the case though, but even then, there is plenty of aftermarket replacement pads that fit this. :)
Nov 30, 2015
pwnerman
453
Nov 30, 2015
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AgentTranQuality sound for the money is about as an unanswerable question as you can ask. Not saying it as an insult but of course everyone has different preferences. I mean these headphones could very well sound well worth the 1000 dollar MSRP or they could make your brain hemorrhage. That's the kicker with these nobody knows yet.
Also just a note but I have a brand new pair of 598's and I just got them for 95 on amazon. If you buy them I would wait for a sale.
I wish I could answer your question to the best I could but to be honest it really is impossible at this stage. Not enough people have reviewed it yet.
You could even look at the Hifiman HE400i that are on sale for 100 less then these.
Nov 30, 2015
JamesX
552
Nov 30, 2015
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ColdCoffeeOr just start even cheaper. Fiio E10K would work well and it has a hardware bass boost option to bring out that epic Fostex Bass potential. $75.
Nov 30, 2015
Fairingrey
102
Nov 30, 2015
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AgentTranWell, I can't say for sure that these will be the best headphones for $400 "ever" as that's mostly a subjective thing. I also cannot predict the future so that's another.
But what's for sure is that for most of the people here joining this drop, this pair of headphones will have some incredible value, as we're getting the Fostex TH series signature sound that would normally cost upwards of at least $600 for something like the TH-600.
Nobody knows for sure how these sound like except for those that went to the HF meet in San Francisco last month and got to preview some of Massdrop's unreleased products, one of which included this. A friend I know in person who is a fellow "Massdropper", if you will, got to demo the prototypes and he said he really liked them, but could not join this drop because he already spent money on the WA7.
Is this a better choice over HD598's? Well, a few days ago on Black Friday the HD598SE was on sale on amazon, and that went for something like $100. I think it's safe to say these will probably have a lot more fidelity (and craftsmanship for that matter also), but the HD598 is of course a slightly different sounding headphone. HD600's are also pretty good, but those also compete with the K7XX's offered here on Massdrop. I'd recommend the K7XX's over the HD600's, but that's a matter of preference, as both sound pretty much identical save for a few bumps in the highs, past 7K or so.
Regarding the cable... don't consider it. Cables will impact so little of your experience. Unless you have a cable with really high impedance such as the likes of the Fidelio X1, there is really no reason to get a special "audiophile"-grade cable, because that's just a lot of snake oil being harvested.
EDIT: That being said, the only pair of cables that I might buy are bespoke custom headphone cables from the likes of bestintheverse.com or so. Those look gorgeous, and I'm considering a pair if ever my K7XX cable breaks. That's the exception to the rule, however.
Nov 30, 2015
Jas0n
36
Nov 30, 2015
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AgentTranThe "best headphone for $400" is the one you'd enjoy putting on your head the most; that would vary massively based on when and where you'd be using your headphones, what sound signature you enjoy most, your physical features which would affect comfort levels, the gear your have to feed the headphones etc.
As boring as this answer might sound it will ultimately ensure that you get what you're after. If you're a fan of fun sounding headphones with a V shaped sound signature the TH-X00 may very well be the biggest bang for your buck going around at the moment (keep in mind that only select few who have their own preferences have tested these phones this far so there is a certain level of risk/trust that you'll have to tolerate); otherwise there are plenty of very well received and reviewed headphones that offer amazing value particularly during the current sales period that may be to your liking and have withstood the test of time - HE400i, HD598, HD600, HD650, X2s, DT990s (massdrop all black edition) etc; you really can't go wrong with any of these choices as far as durability.
Nov 30, 2015
needhelp
331
Nov 30, 2015
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AgentTran598 was $99 yesterday and hd600 you do not need to change the cable. and yes, this drop is good. way better than hd600+ cable change. but i wont say this drop is better than hd600/hd650, because imho, open headphone is better than closed. thats just me.
Nov 30, 2015
AgentTran
2
Nov 30, 2015
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pwnermanthanks for the input!
Nov 30, 2015
OnePunchMan
330
Nov 30, 2015
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jeffriyea no worries there plus, so easy to switch out as well
Nov 30, 2015
AgentTran
2
Nov 30, 2015
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Fairingreythanks for the advice, I have made the decision to just make the leap and put down the $415. My end decision was the bass factor. While I'm not a young-bass head who assumes beat's are the best quality headphone on the market, I still appreciate some bass here and there, as well as a detailed sound when I would like. Balance is pretty important to me, and a neutral sound stage is the only thing I've ever been accustomed too, as shown by my ownership of my SRH440's. Thanks again for all the help.
Nov 30, 2015
JamesX
552
Nov 30, 2015
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needhelpI'd rather have one of each. You're giving up Pros in different categories only having open or closed.
Nov 30, 2015
OnePunchMan
330
Nov 30, 2015
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AgentTranif you're a basshead, listen to edm/pop/metal, then yes. you'll lvoe the bass these pump out and how accurate (enough) they are. if you're not a basshead and listen to classical, jazz, basically music where you need to be clinically accurate (like u can tell where da drummer sits etc) then no.
Nov 30, 2015
needhelp
331
Nov 30, 2015
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JamesXhey, we always need another headphone ;)
Nov 30, 2015
Fairingrey
102
Nov 30, 2015
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AgentTranNo problem. And yeah, the HD600's and AKG K7xx's are both neutral sounding, so they probably would occupy a gap owned by a headphone you already own -- that wouldn't be too great.
I think everyone appreciates a little bit bass, whether it's warm or V-shaped. They're just so fun to listen to. Nothing wrong with upsetting the balance just a teeny bit :)
Nov 30, 2015
Fairingrey
102
Nov 30, 2015
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needhelpI'm somewhat glad I have some self control over this kinda stuff, although I get seriously impulsive when I see things like this.
I remember last Friday the HD598SE's were on sale and /r/headphones was getting really excited, thinking "Those look really nice but... I already have K7xx's..." And so I kept reading the thread and came across veni_vidi_vale saying something along the lines of: if one already has the K7xx, the HD598SE would be marginally more euphoric but exhibit less detail.
If you're reading this veni_vidi_vale, I just wanted to thank you for saving me some anxiety. You're awesome.
Nov 30, 2015
RShack
180
Nov 30, 2015
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AgentTranThere are any number of "right decisions". Unless you want headbanger loud-bass stuff, if you get HD600's, you'll be happy... and if you get these you'll be happy. In either case, when a friend comes to your place, you'll say, "Here... put these on, and listen to this!"
But if you start comparing them to each other, side-by-side, you'll just wind up spending a fortune and you'll wind up with too many headphones, like me.
If I was facing your choice, I wouldn't spend an extra $100 to get the HD600's with fancy cables. The cables are the very last thing you need to think about at this point. To me, the choice would be the HD600's for ~$300 (US price @ amazon) vs. these at $400. I have nothing but good things to say about the HD600's, they've been around a long time for a very good reason: they're excellent. I'm getting these Fostex because I expect they'll be a bit better, and because I've got the GAS disease ("Gear Acquisition Syndrome").
If you're a mostly normal person, probably the best thing is to decide whether you want to spend $300 on something excellent or $400 on something excellent-plus. There's also the question of whether you want to spend $100 on a great little dac/amp. Then, once you decide, just enjoy whatever it is and don't second-guess yourself about your choice of headphones... unless you really want to spend a fortune on this kind of stuff.
Bottom line: Both the HD600 and these will be better than fine. But I wouldn't blow an extra $100 on HD600 cables unless you have everything else sorted out. People get way too crazy about that kind of stuff.
Nov 30, 2015
needhelp
331
Nov 30, 2015
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Fairingreythat guy is pretty active in /r :D
Nov 30, 2015
needhelp
331
Nov 30, 2015
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RShackyea, and i am getting this closed can because i think my beyer custom one pro is not good enough :P
Nov 30, 2015
Fairingrey
102
Nov 30, 2015
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needhelpHe is -- I love his posts. Most of them are just so lighthearted. I'm also glad he takes the time to moderate the sub too.
Nov 30, 2015
dimic
31
Nov 30, 2015
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JamesXAgreed as for Fiio E10K. I had it and have Chord Mojo, and differences are subtle. I may have misspelled somewhere else it was E18, but it WAS E10K. _Awesome_ little thing, light and powerful
Nov 30, 2015
dimic
31
Nov 30, 2015
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RShackSo say we all!
Nov 30, 2015
needhelp
331
Nov 30, 2015
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dimicoh, now you shattered my dream of getting a mojo to achieve audio nirvana!!!!
Nov 30, 2015
OnePunchMan
330
Nov 30, 2015
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RShackTrue dat son
Nov 30, 2015
thegrizzlie
1
Dec 2, 2015
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WuthoqquanBoth will sound great. A potential issues with the 400i's are their durability. Many people complain that hifiman headphones are not built to last.
Dec 2, 2015
crimbo
2
Dec 5, 2015
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Don't listen to 'reviewers' who make claims that a certain headphone doesn't suit genres as enormous as jazz and classical, thats just ridiculous.
Dec 5, 2015
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