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Mayrix
1
Dec 3, 2015
If I wanted to change the current wood cups with another type of lumber, i.e. walnut, grenadilla, maple, etc, would that have a significant effect on the sound signature or the sound in general? Thanks.
TheRealVlad
91
Dec 3, 2015
MayrixMahagoni is dense and perfect for cups. Save your money.
pwnerman
453
Dec 3, 2015
TheRealVladwhat's Mahagoni?
I kid I kid
luvmusik
120
Dec 3, 2015
MayrixThe headphones are currently tuned with the mahogany earcups. If you change the cups, you can experiment, but expect different sound results. Of the 40 types or more of tonewoods used in headphones, some have drastically differing audio results, and some are similar. If you listen to the cans and decide you'd like to bring out a subtle characteristic better, a different wood may achieve that. Some woods are bass heavy, others accentuate the highs, some roll off the bass, some roll off the highs, some roll off both bass and highs, some are very mid-focused. Others are mellow or smooth, some warm or full, others bright or clear. Some more articulate and detailed. Some have a softer sound, others attack dynamics well. Some have slightly muddied bass, some are very linear, others forward in signature. Some absorb overtones moreso. The music genres you like also bears on what type woods you may prefer. For a quick basic tutorial visit the sites of Lawton Audio (5 categories custom wood chambers & tone wheel for music genres) and Kennerton headphones (cups accessories) for descriptions on specific tonewoods and their resulting sonic effects for each type wood.
AdamS
53
Dec 3, 2015
luvmusikDo you work for Lawton Audio? Because you are selling that snake oil hard! I highly doubt someone could identify wood type on a head phone ear cup in a blind test. Also what isn't taken into consideration in your sales pitch is variance of density, moisture, grain within the species, which would probably have more affect that difference in wood species itself.
Jim_
155
Dec 3, 2015
AdamSthis is the audiophile community, Snake oil is what its made of. Oh by the way I have some oxygen free 100% silver cables to sell you and a dual leprechaun mod that actually vibrates the drivers by hand.
AdamS
53
Dec 3, 2015
Jim_Sounds legit, I'm in!
luvmusik
120
Dec 3, 2015
AdamSNo man, not affiliated with Lawton, Kennerton and I do not consult for them. Just factually helping others here. Am in the Pro music industry 46 years, own over 85 sets of headphones, 11 are STAX. They all get regular use at home & in the studio here. Different Tonewoods used in headphones and musical instruments factually fundamentally change the sound. Classical violinists & guitarists know this well. It's a basic fact timbre changes just between any 2 Stradivarius violins using the same wood. A loudspeaker model I own is used to test different Stradivarius violins against each other in blind testing, the same model at another location, to distinguish differences.
Far opposite of snake oil , even in headphones. Great acoustic guitars use different tonewoods within the same guitar to attenuate desired characteristics. Of all hifi gear, changing woods in headphones is the most evident resulting audio change for different woods. Crazy idea this is a sales pitch...this is factual hi-end headphone & instrument engineering. Chuckle at mention of density, moisture, grain...there is far more to it. Density, porosity, grain, weight, humidity content, specific gravity, dimensional stability, change coefficient, actual region & soil the tree was grown in, age of wood & tree, height & diameter of tree, torsional strength, dried weight, rupture modulus, hardness scale, tangential-volumetric-radial shrinkage, crushing strength, elastic modulus, janka hardness, weight bearing strength & more parameters distinguish where tonewood application is best used with their sonic properties.
Resonating bodies & sound chambers often blend woods and also engineer interior shaping and configuration to maximize desired characteristics. This is daily work in violin & guitar hi-end manufacturers. Headphones exhibit the easiest recognition of the wood differences in audio gear, moreso than in loudspeakers. Changing woods have profound differences in headphones...those who actually have done this many times will attest to changes. Some of the most renowned pro-reviewers in audio have proven this time & again, both thru their listening tests and very extensive measurements testings of many factors. Just helping others here.
luvmusik
120
Dec 3, 2015
Sorry, man, I have no affiliation with any headphone manufacturer or modding after-market sales company. After a few months when the TH-X00 are thoroughly listened to by all, mods will be reported on head-fi with measurements, and it will be interesting to see what some guys achieve with their modifications.
fjrabon
456
Dec 3, 2015
luvmusikI think you're somewhat overstating the difference it makes on headphones. It does make a difference, but a tiny one. You keep using instruments as proof, but there's a huge difference between how tone woods work in instruments and how they work in headphones. In instruments the wood is DESIGNED to resonate as *much* as possible, as that's where the volume comes from. You typically want a very alive, resonant wood, and you want to to move around and color the sound and resonate.
In headphones they're designed to resonate *as little as possible* because resonances in headphones are almost always bad and a cause of loss in detail. You'd never, for example, use sitka spruce on a headphone, despite it being one of the most desired tonewoods on guitars. I don't think it's pure snake oil, but comparing usage of wood in headphones to usage of wood in a violin wildly overstates the difference it makes.
If it made this big of a difference, think of how bad a plastic guitar sounds. Now realize that most of the best headphones in the world are plastic.
The usage of wood here is most certainly 99% about aesthetics, not the tonal properties of mahogany. They chose mahogany for the same reason most furniture makers do, not for the reason acoustic guitar makers very occasionally do.
Further, just looking at the cups, the grain doesn't seem like acoustic grade mahogany (very tight grain) but rather furniture grade mahogany (very figured wide grain).
Whitigir
17
Dec 3, 2015
fjrabonTone wood is only good for instruments as they use resonances within the housing to make sound. Different woods does give the headphones a "slight" differences in sound, but if somebody is "hard-core-picky" enough, any added resonances-color-distortions of the "reproduced sound" would be a killer. Kill it with everything you have got....! I hate resonances myself, and I don't believe the th-X00 to be free of resonances either. It is a common nature of "closed/contained space + moving waves". To people who is not picky, however, it may be good enough
Groch
73
Dec 3, 2015
WhitigirRE: Why wood is used in headphone cups: if your goal was truely to kill resonances you would either adjust the design, bracing etc, or most likely add damping materials, you would not just change the wood. Wood is incorporated 99% for looks, to increase sales. It worked on me, they look great. Lots of composites will have much better sound damping.....but would not be as aesthetically pleasing. We buy with emotion and justify with logic or snake-oil explanations. Luvmusic is doing the justify part.
Whitigir
17
Dec 3, 2015
GrochWood were used mainly for higher-end headphones which is relatively "flat out Neutral". Added wood resonances can tone the timbres of the headphones diaphragm to be more organic. Does it make sense ? But then, there will be specific regions where the wood resonances would color other instruments to sound different that what they really are, but this won't matter as the headphones were too flat and neutral to begin with.
Wood cups can also help different diaphragm material to sound more organic as well. Say, if you take MDR-z7 drivers and put in a wood cup instead of it plastic-aluminum, the "tint" of the headphones would sound different. The way MDR z7 sounds right now, being stock, there is "metallic tint" and bass distortion in complex bass. This is because the plastic in the chamber has no dampening property, and the resonances were not any "toned resonances, but plain 0 color resonances, so the aluminum coated diaphragm will give out metallic tint timbres"
Whitigir
17
Dec 3, 2015
GrochRemember that tone wood is used in instruments by the uses of many woods and not only one. For example guitar, it is because "tuning" of the timbres. Similar can be said for headphones.....but to make a headphones to be very very flat is simply almost impossible, by using tone wood there will be scarification of other aspects. Take MDR-r10 for example, eventhough wood was used, but it would still need some sound dampening inside the chamber and only leave out specific places exposed to the wood for this "unique timbres"
fjrabon
456
Dec 3, 2015
WhitigirSounding "more organic" isn't a real thing. I don't want to get into a flame war here, but using wood doesn't make something "sound more organic". Wood can be used somewhat for dampening a smidge, especially as compared to metal. But metal headphones don't "sound metallic" and wood headphones don't "sound organic." I suppose next the Sennheiser HD800 is going to "sound spacecraftish"
Whitigir
17
Dec 4, 2015
fjrabonDid you forget the part of very flat and neutral ? But anyways, however you look at it, added color or resonances are always bad for "reproductions of sound". I was just trying to answer why some high-end headphones used wood. Majority is for appearances, in some rare cases could be used for tone/dampening....whatever. It depends on how they engineer the headphones as a whole, period.
EniGmA1987
607
Dec 4, 2015
Jim_Oxygen Free has to do with the way the copper or whatever material is cast, not that the end cable has no oxygen inside of it... Also, silver cables do sound brighter than copper. Not to huge extents but they do, and not really worth the cost unless you make them yourself and want a brighter sound. Dont lump actual things in with your leprechaun jokes.
Whitigir
17
Dec 4, 2015
EniGmA1987Silver doesn't add brightness. Cables can not add additional informations when the informations were never there to begin with. Silver cables only make the conductive more efficient than copper, and that is that. However, the sound differences are real, and the cost vs DIY is also very true
fjrabon
456
Dec 4, 2015
Whitigirit's not additional information being added by a cable, it's an isometric transformation of the analog information in the cable. This is the same thing that happens when an analog signal goes through a tube. I think we can all agree that tubes change the frequency response. Tubes can't add additional information, they can only transform the information that's in there and add noise.
When the signal is in a headphone cable it's no longer digital, it's analog. Since different frequency signals will be effected differently by different types of cables, it can differentially effect different portions of the frequency response as transmitted to the driver. Now certainly USB cables can't change the sound at all, because they carry a digital signal.
That being said, the difference is certainly small, even at the extremes of copper vs silver.
Whitigir
17
Dec 4, 2015
fjrabonTubes work in a different way than cables which only conduct electricity instead of amplifying of short. These are not good example. Cables, like I said, is only about efficiency. Silver is the best conductance available on the market, and ofcourse better than copper. Therefore, the single digit of 3% or so will affects the sounds. Silver doesn't add informations or anything which were not originally there. 1 amp, 3 volt....etc...will be the same from the source, where as copper will be....reduced by 3% of efficiency, that is as simple as I can explain.
Copper is cheaper, more flexible, and readily available. OCC copper or OFC copper is all about efficiency war again. However the differences are minimal to the minutes, ofcourse the sound would be affected, but silver will bring out the most obvious differences.
Jim_
155
Dec 4, 2015
EniGmA1987I love that this discussion is exactly my point. On a related note I hear the leprechaun's actually put the air in the cables at the factory. Ive been to the meetups, compared them multiple times, I've talked to multiple audio engineers(who dont sell the cables), and I love hearing people justify it to themselves. Its so much fun! Thank you! In the end it doesnt matter as long as people are happy and think it adds something but it sure is fun to watch!
EniGmA1987
607
Dec 4, 2015
WhitigirYes you are correct they do not ADD brightness, but they do sound brighter. Never said cables add things to sound. Probably sounds brighter because silver has higher conductivity so the higher frequencies can transfer better. The higher the frequency the more it attenuates to resistance.
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