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pkjames
7
Sep 25, 2016
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I won't trust fostex on this MD exclusive model anymore. Again based on my experience with Japanese manufacturers, this model has way too many defects that you know they cut too many corners. Could even be they just asked some random supplier outside of Japan for these cups.
So I won't take these cans at a discount. Just my opinion.
Now I need a pair of cans, preferably closed. Any suggestions? Is the akg k553 half decent?
rwrogier
59
Sep 25, 2016
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pkjamesPKjames,
I don't know what type of music you're listening to and what you're looking for in a set of cans. I own a set of Audio-Technica ATH-A2000X. Audio-Technica is known for making absolutely flat response headphones -- whatever the person mixing the track put in is what you'll hear, nothing more, nothing less. I do find that they sound a bit better when driven by a decent DAC and Amp. I've plugged them into my OPPO BDP-105D and played some DSD and DSD-Double, one DSD-Quad rate, and then FLAC (the majority of my HD library is either DSD or FLAC, the Double and Quad just takes too much space to make it worth it.) I will say though, listening to Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture in DSD with actual cannons at the end is amazing. Also amazing is a piece of music I have called Magnificat which you can get for free from here: http://www.2l.no/hires/.
The ATs are really good at female vocals, orchestra, and classical guitar. Male vocals still sound amazing, but for some reason, female vocals, especially in songs like Magnificant are almost tear jerking. The A2000X are no longer made (sadly), but the AT line has everything from the upper end ATH-W5000 which are ebony (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/5215eb84d110cad5/index.html) down to the ATH-M70 and ATH-M50 line. The M70/50 are what audio mixers use. My father was a sound engineer and used a pair of those for years to mix with.
The reason I joined this drop was to get a slightly different tuned audio response. The reviews I heard about the Fostex sounded like they would be what I was looking for. I think the issue is not "Japanese" manufacturing. The issue here was something about Fostex and fulfilling (or lack thereof) this order. I would think the normal Fostex are probably OK, but then again I don't know for a fact, I can just look at what I see on Amazon, Head-Fi, and the like.
If you're wanting to stay with MD for your order, you'll have to just look around and see. I actually have considered getting a pair of open back, but want to get a set of wood cans first. Eventually, I'll get the bonus of a life time and pick up a pair of Stax!
JimK
139
Sep 25, 2016
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pkjamespk....... the guys in the PH drop said their headphones said "made in China" ..... so yes, Fostex is a Japanese company, but the TH-x00 headphones are being manufactured in China. Hence, the longer lead times, glue rather than screws, poor packaging, etc. Not an indictment of Fostex or Massdrop, just pointing out the situation and shedding some light on all of this.
SevenLtrs
8
Sep 25, 2016
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JimKWelp I wanted Japanese headphones not Chinese, kinda disappointed :(
JimK
139
Sep 25, 2016
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SevenLtrsI'm in (or was in) the Mahogany / Purple Heart drop that ended in June and after reading all the horror stories from the folks receiving the PH's I figured I would ask somebody who got them to tell me what their box said because Japanese quality is usually great.
This isn't a reflection on Massdrop but a reflection on society in general ........ who can produce something the cheapest. Astronauts ride rockets into space made by the company who put in the cheapest bid :)
I'm in the food distribution business and live on the West Coast ~ Halibut and Salmon that is caught up in Alaska is actually brought to China for cleaning and processing and then shipped back to the U.S. ~ because ~ it's cheaper overall to do that >>> pretty sad but pennies add up to companies and, when the better Fostex headphones start around $600 and go up to $1,400 while we were paying $400 its going to add up to a "made in China" product using *Fostex parts and Fostex specs* but quality and craftsmanship ........... not so much,
But yeah, I think we were all hoping for great quality sound components (from Fostex) with decent to good craftsmanship
**I know what MD shows as a "list price" and how much people saved but that's kind of sales fluff, like buying a car ~ anyways, figured I would share the question and answer I got back
This isn't a reflection on Massdrop but a reflection on society in general ........ who can produce something the cheapest. Astronauts ride rockets into space made by the company who put in the cheapest bid :)
I'm in the food distribution business and live on the West Coast ~ Halibut and Salmon that is caught up in Alaska is actually brought to China for cleaning and processing and then shipped back to the U.S. ~ because ~ it's cheaper overall to do that >>> pretty sad but pennies add up to companies and, when the better Fostex headphones start around $600 and go up to $1,400 while we were paying $400 its going to add up to a "made in China" product using *Fostex parts and Fostex specs* but quality and craftsmanship ........... not so much,
But yeah, I think we were all hoping for great quality sound components (from Fostex) with decent to good craftsmanship
**I know what MD shows as a "list price" and how much people saved but that's kind of sales fluff, like buying a car ~ anyways, figured I would share the question and answer I got back
pkjames
7
Sep 26, 2016
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JimKJim,
I didn't look into the previous Drop, thanks for confirming my theory. Made in China is by no means bad, it is really how the manufacturer does the QC and how much they care about their reputation. In this case, probably MD just wanted something really cheap and asked Fostex to come up with something "exclusive": likely to be the TH600/610 driver, with sub-quality made in china (there are great stuff out of Chinese manufacturing like the iPhone, just another issue all together) cups and dodgy assembly quality.
It is Fostex to blame, I thank MD to stop the shipment at the last minute. I will buy from MD in the future, but paying close attention to these super cheap "exclusive" models, and DEFINITELY not anything associated with FOSTEX.
rwrogier
59
Sep 26, 2016
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pkjamesI don't know where you live but you might want to see if there's a local high-end installer in your area that represents various brands. I live in North Carolina and there are several upper-end installers in my area, one of whom sells Audeze, Audioquest, B&W, Grado, HIFIMAN, Master & Dynamic, PSB, Sennheiser, and Sony. I demoed a few pair last time I was over there and actually came away impressed with the M&D (but didn't feel like handing over the title to my car to get a pair from them) :), as well as a pair of Sony's which are the MDR1ADAC/B. These are closed back, have a built-in rechargeable battery for use with a phone. The reason for the battery is not for noise cancellation like most are but rather are for a built-in DAC. The description of it is "Premium DAC supports full Hi-Res audio: PCM 192kHz/24 bit, DSD 2.8/5.6MHz, Direct Digital Connection for PC, Walkman, Xperia, and Apple devices, 2 in 1 integrated use: Hi-Res Headphones + Headphone DAC and amplifier". I almost want to get a pair from Amazon and just risk having to pay the return shipping/restocking fee if I don't like them to see how they compare to my 2000X with my Fiio Alpen 2 DAC. Per the guide, you should be able to go direct from your phone to the headset using a USB cable and use the DAC in the headset. This would be really attractive to me since I already own the music to handle it. My only real concern is I'm not a huge bass-head (most of what I have is classical or Jazz) and don't want to end up with a set that just gives me this throbbing bass which wasn't in the original, leaving me with a throbbing headache which most certainly wasn't in the original.
These Fostex were going to be my first venture into the territory of a more bass enhanced (I was really hoping not bass dominant) set. I do own several albums of Movie scores and there are some parts in these ("Interstellar" is a great example) where a full-flat response does leave a bit to be desired. I know that theaters do pull the sub's up a bit to give you a mental impact (research what happens when extremely low notes are played – hint, horror movies use it a lot). Because of the bass not being pulled up, the opening piece from "Interstellar", "Dreaming of the Crash" loses a lot due to the thunder not being present. I can always put it back in with my DAC, but would love to get a set of cans that have that minimal bass extension without going over to the other extreme of totally dropping mid/treble and just playing loud, obnoxious bass.
So, after that, probably too long, post, my recommendation would be to try to find somewhere close that you can go listen to some of these upper-end brands. Call the manufacturer if needed and see who is an authorized reseller for them. Once you've done that, see if there's a set that really grabs your eardrums and then shop around. If you haven't seen Audiogon, check it out too. I still stand behind my initial recommendation of the ATs because I just love mine, but know they aren't everyone's cup of bean or leaf juice so you may find something you like better from one of the 200,000 other companies out there, of which 199,953 are all assembled in the same 4 factories in China. :D
These Fostex were going to be my first venture into the territory of a more bass enhanced (I was really hoping not bass dominant) set. I do own several albums of Movie scores and there are some parts in these ("Interstellar" is a great example) where a full-flat response does leave a bit to be desired. I know that theaters do pull the sub's up a bit to give you a mental impact (research what happens when extremely low notes are played – hint, horror movies use it a lot). Because of the bass not being pulled up, the opening piece from "Interstellar", "Dreaming of the Crash" loses a lot due to the thunder not being present. I can always put it back in with my DAC, but would love to get a set of cans that have that minimal bass extension without going over to the other extreme of totally dropping mid/treble and just playing loud, obnoxious bass.
So, after that, probably too long, post, my recommendation would be to try to find somewhere close that you can go listen to some of these upper-end brands. Call the manufacturer if needed and see who is an authorized reseller for them. Once you've done that, see if there's a set that really grabs your eardrums and then shop around. If you haven't seen Audiogon, check it out too. I still stand behind my initial recommendation of the ATs because I just love mine, but know they aren't everyone's cup of bean or leaf juice so you may find something you like better from one of the 200,000 other companies out there, of which 199,953 are all assembled in the same 4 factories in China. :D
rwrogier
59
Sep 26, 2016
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JimKI definitely agree with you, Jim. I feel there were a lot of missteps/miscues in this drop but in the end, MD has owned up to most if not all of them and have been polite and helpful. I do hope that things will go much better in the future. The only outstanding concern I have right now is that my profile doesn't show that I ever purchased anything (and therefore have the available credit). I would think that ideally, our profile should look something like what is below.
Note: I'm completely making everything above up based on normal accountancy practice since I can't see any details in my profile about this drop.
It would also be good if you showed the amount in the Account Detail section which is currently outstanding until you deliver the product. For example, so long as the headphones were not delivered, the Account Details section should show an outstanding balance of $399.99. I created a fake drop to show how this would look. While I can't do any sort of linking into this, the "Shipping info here" would have a link to the shipping carrier and the shipment tracking details where available or at least the amount of detail possible. The whole point is just to make everything, 1.) as transparent as possible, 2.) as detailed as possible, and 3.) as easy to use as possible. If the profile and account details looked like the screen below does, when you go to pay for your next drop, you should have a prompt asking "you have an outstanding credit, would you like to apply it here?" and then the option to apply all or part of the credit. With a DOT com, one should NEVER have to contact customer service to get an account credit applied to a purchase. In this case, it's only $100.00. What happens if you end up with a bigger issue and have to credit people's accounts for more than this? It's going to turn into a nightmare to administer.
The only remaining question I have for Massdrop about this credit is, do I have to use this all at one time? There are several drops on your site which are not $100.00. If I use any part of my credit does that use it all? If not, then the ability to know the exact amount of my outstanding balance becomes more and more critical. If I go in on a $75.00 drop and then want to apply the rest of that credit to a drop which is $125 a few weeks/months later, I'm really hoping that it won't become a nightmare to get that done.
In the end, thank you MD for being involved in the discussion board, please just look back over this drop and learn from it.
Here is my example Profile page showing the Faux transactions... Account Details: Transactions: Transaction ID Date & Time Drop ID Description Amount Details 1002021P Jan 12, 2016, 11:16:42 EDT 281 ASUS Maximus VIII $325.00 Payment for Drop ending Jan 15, 2016 1002021F Feb 23, 2016, 13:15:22 EDT 281 ASUS Maximus VIII ($325.00) Fulfillment for Drop 281. Shipping Info here. 1003309P Jun 16, 2016, 17:42:50 EDT 452 Fostex TH-X00 Mah $399.99 Payment for Drop ending Jun 24, 2016 1003309R Sep 23, 2016, 19:53:06 EDT 452 Fostex TH-X00 Mah ($399.00) Refund due to delivery issues 1003309C Sep 23, 2016, 19:53:06 EDT CREDIT Special Credit ($100.00) One-time credit due to drop
Current Balance: ($100.00)
Here is my example Profile page showing the Faux transactions... Account Details: Transactions: Transaction ID Date & Time Drop ID Description Amount Details 1002021P Jan 12, 2016, 11:16:42 EDT 281 ASUS Maximus VIII $325.00 Payment for Drop ending Jan 15, 2016 1002021F Feb 23, 2016, 13:15:22 EDT 281 ASUS Maximus VIII ($325.00) Fulfillment for Drop 281. Shipping Info here. 1003309P Jun 16, 2016, 17:42:50 EDT 452 Fostex TH-X00 Mah $399.99 Payment for Drop ending Jun 24, 2016 1003309R Sep 23, 2016, 19:53:06 EDT 452 Fostex TH-X00 Mah ($399.00) Refund due to delivery issues 1003309C Sep 23, 2016, 19:53:06 EDT CREDIT Special Credit ($100.00) One-time credit due to drop
Current Balance: ($100.00)
SevenLtrs
8
Sep 26, 2016
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rwrogierI was wondering the same thing on how to use the MD credit. There are some things that I want but are under $100, if I buy one of those things does the rest of credit go away. Also, do we have to spend a minimum amount of money on a drop or can we just get free product? We need more details on the help page.
JimK
139
Sep 26, 2016
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rwrogierrw, you had me at "I definitely agree with you jim" ~ LOL
just teasing, I read it all and you are (again) spot on
right now, if we buy something and want to use the credit we have to pay full price (apparently) and then after our card or bank is charged full price, then a credit of $100 is returned to our card or bank (????) still kind of guessing that that is how they have it set up
if we all have an "account" set up with MD, i.e. we are "an MD member" then we should show a $100 credit available so that when we decide to make a purchase (example: for a $500 item) only $400 is required to complete the purchase
anyways ~ good to have you in the same boat because you know your sh*t :) :) :) *those are 3 smiley faces*
just teasing, I read it all and you are (again) spot on
right now, if we buy something and want to use the credit we have to pay full price (apparently) and then after our card or bank is charged full price, then a credit of $100 is returned to our card or bank (????) still kind of guessing that that is how they have it set up
if we all have an "account" set up with MD, i.e. we are "an MD member" then we should show a $100 credit available so that when we decide to make a purchase (example: for a $500 item) only $400 is required to complete the purchase
anyways ~ good to have you in the same boat because you know your sh*t :) :) :) *those are 3 smiley faces*
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