Click to view our Accessibility Statement or contact us with accessibility-related questions
Showing 1 of 1034 conversations about:
olbez
109
May 2, 2017
bookmark_border
JellyfishDoughnut
36
May 4, 2017
bookmark_border
olbezTo be fair, it's not like they have choices of suppliers. There is literally only the one. It might be possible in the future for Maxkeys to step up, but the don't have the quality, consistency, or tooling to do a run like this.
Massdrop is who will deal with the fallout, but this isn't their fault. Signature Plastics failing to plan an appropriate production timeline, choosing to overbooked SA production, and putting business to business sales ahead of enthusiasts promised timeline is the real issue.
Massdrop is who will deal with the fallout, but this isn't their fault. Signature Plastics failing to plan an appropriate production timeline, choosing to overbooked SA production, and putting business to business sales ahead of enthusiasts promised timeline is the real issue.
olbez
109
May 9, 2017
bookmark_border
JellyfishDoughnutSignature Plastics sale to Massdrop is a business to business sale.
JellyfishDoughnut
36
May 9, 2017
bookmark_border
olbezTechnically, yes it is. But I'm differentiating group buys from b2b sales on purpose. And example of b2b would be SP supplying caps for all PoS machines and fuel control systems to Tesoro gas stations.
Simply put, we don't buy enough stuff often enough to make them get a second set of SA molds. That means our percentage of their overall business is so small that they won't invest $60,000 to double their output because it wouldn't be profitable. I'm making a couple assumptions with that explanation: 1) they want to make money. 2) $60,000 doesn't account for manpower, so it's likely more to actually run that machines.
So yes, technically it's business to business to sell to massdrop. But it's less profitable, consistent, and takes a lot more time to make than any of their traditional business. Why would they prioritize us over their regular customers?
Simply put, we don't buy enough stuff often enough to make them get a second set of SA molds. That means our percentage of their overall business is so small that they won't invest $60,000 to double their output because it wouldn't be profitable. I'm making a couple assumptions with that explanation: 1) they want to make money. 2) $60,000 doesn't account for manpower, so it's likely more to actually run that machines.
So yes, technically it's business to business to sell to massdrop. But it's less profitable, consistent, and takes a lot more time to make than any of their traditional business. Why would they prioritize us over their regular customers?
olbez
109
May 9, 2017
bookmark_border
JellyfishDoughnutI'd have to respectfully disagree with your assessment. The arrangement between Massdrop and SP is not just "technically" B2B, but is also Legally so in the sense that it is covered by a contract law, instead of consumer protections.
A year ago there have been allegations that SP favors Massdrop orders as they are high volume. This prompted their CEO, Bob Guenser to respond on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4351fd/president_of_signature_plastics_response_to/
This speaks to the fact that SP would absolutely have enough volume from Massdrop to justify investing in tooling necessary to support the orders, however it is up to Massdrop to ensure that they protect their customers (i.e. you and me) by aligning their suppliers appropriately and not force us to wait for 9 months to get a "we dunno when we will send you the stuff you paid for..."
A year ago there have been allegations that SP favors Massdrop orders as they are high volume. This prompted their CEO, Bob Guenser to respond on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4351fd/president_of_signature_plastics_response_to/
This speaks to the fact that SP would absolutely have enough volume from Massdrop to justify investing in tooling necessary to support the orders, however it is up to Massdrop to ensure that they protect their customers (i.e. you and me) by aligning their suppliers appropriately and not force us to wait for 9 months to get a "we dunno when we will send you the stuff you paid for..."
JellyfishDoughnut
36
May 9, 2017
bookmark_border
olbezCompletely reasonable point about the legalities. It is 100% a business selling to a business. But regardless of the nomenclature, Massdrop and other group buys ran by companies do seem to be given second rate service compared to SP's other b2b sales.
I remember reading that on Reddit when it happened. I believe there was a part about special pricing being given to Massdrop, but I don't remember mention of increasing their production capabilities to meet the demand. I'll have to re-read it later when I have a bit more time.
Keep in mind 9 months for a Signature Plastics has been the queue for almost a year and has only gotten longer. When we agreed to the buy we all understood the wait time. If you know much about SP's historic timeline, none of this was a surprise. It doesn't mean I think it's right, just unsurprising.
I agree that Massdrop should do something to make sure SP follows through with their timeline, but short of making their own caps, there simply aren't any other options in the market place. Maxkeys is up and coming but they don't have the quality, color selection, consistency, or tooling to be able to handle a set like this.
With a product like this where only one company has the capability to even offer it, what could Massdrop even do to correct the situation?
I remember reading that on Reddit when it happened. I believe there was a part about special pricing being given to Massdrop, but I don't remember mention of increasing their production capabilities to meet the demand. I'll have to re-read it later when I have a bit more time.
Keep in mind 9 months for a Signature Plastics has been the queue for almost a year and has only gotten longer. When we agreed to the buy we all understood the wait time. If you know much about SP's historic timeline, none of this was a surprise. It doesn't mean I think it's right, just unsurprising.
I agree that Massdrop should do something to make sure SP follows through with their timeline, but short of making their own caps, there simply aren't any other options in the market place. Maxkeys is up and coming but they don't have the quality, color selection, consistency, or tooling to be able to handle a set like this.
With a product like this where only one company has the capability to even offer it, what could Massdrop even do to correct the situation?
olbez
109
May 9, 2017
bookmark_border
JellyfishDoughnutA number of things Massdrop could do in this situation. For example, when contracting Signature Plastics to produce the caps, they can include a provision of financial penalty in case of production delays. It is very likely that they did, indeed include such provisions anyway. Which will effectively just increase the profit margin for MD...
I agree with you that these delays are not surprising at all. My primary issue is with the way Massdrop is handling it: first they sold us the caps and promptly collected our cash in exchange for a promise to ship them by the end of March. Then, they sent us an email informing of the delay and that we should expect to hear from them by the end of April. Finally, on May 1st (so technically late on their promise) they tell us that manufacturing of the caps hasn't even started and they don't have a new date at all for us.
For Massdrop to show that they care about us as their customers, they could use the money or discounts they (could/should/would) get from Signature Plastics and distribute them as a partial refund for the broken promise. One can dream...
I agree with you that these delays are not surprising at all. My primary issue is with the way Massdrop is handling it: first they sold us the caps and promptly collected our cash in exchange for a promise to ship them by the end of March. Then, they sent us an email informing of the delay and that we should expect to hear from them by the end of April. Finally, on May 1st (so technically late on their promise) they tell us that manufacturing of the caps hasn't even started and they don't have a new date at all for us.
For Massdrop to show that they care about us as their customers, they could use the money or discounts they (could/should/would) get from Signature Plastics and distribute them as a partial refund for the broken promise. One can dream...
JellyfishDoughnut
36
May 9, 2017
bookmark_border
olbezI can completely get behind that. Massdrop can be awful about communication and in this case worse than normal. I know I'll get my caps, but I also understand that neither SP or Massdrop has any intention of giving us a reasonable time frame on shipping.
I'm not convinced that SP would be willing to sign a contract like that, since they're in the position of power. But it would be nice.
I'm not convinced that SP would be willing to sign a contract like that, since they're in the position of power. But it would be nice.
Related Products
Drop Refurbished
Like-new products you can trustDrop Rewards
Get $5 for every 500 points you earn! Learn more
Drop Keyboard Club
Become a member and expand your keycap collectionCollaborate With Us
For Brands & DesignersFollow Drop
They can't line up a supplier to produce what they sold and got prepaid for.