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SenorPlatano
389
Feb 28, 2017
Why doesn't anybody just buy this: http://schiit.com/products/jotunheim
Way more powerful. If you ask me there's no point of spending more than like $100 on a DAC. They all sound the same. If you listen to a $2300 DAC and can tell the difference it's either your mind lying to you, or they're playing 192kbps or less music when it's plugged into the computer and FLAC when you plug in the DAC. I'm not talking about amplifiers though, if you have a 600 ohm headphone then buy a $400 amp.
SenorPlatano
389
Feb 28, 2017
uhhhhh I guess. Pretty sure JDS Labs The Element is $349 and probably as powerful. It looks good too.
MrSpade
2
Feb 28, 2017
SenorPlatanoWell the only thing that i love about this is the design...but i heard plenty of people saying the Schiit Fulla 2 is as good with maybe some features dropped like fiber connexion... I am wondering since i do not feel confortable paying that huge amount of money for such piece as good as it looks... I would like to drive the 7xx from AKG and 6xx from Senheiser...I play mostly games and watch some movies/tv show...i would think in future for a pair of stereo case. What's the best quality/price i could get for that use? if possible in black? (Living in E.U)
SenorPlatano
389
Feb 28, 2017
MrSpadeWhat country? You could check on Amazon.
GUTB
238
Feb 28, 2017
SenorPlatanoI agree that all $100 DACs sound the same. They will also all sound the same when behind a $100 amp driving $100 lo-fi headphones.
I would be frankly shocked if you couldn't tell the difference between my $800 Gustard X20U and my $100 Schiit Modi 2. The difference is huge. But then I also own hi-fi headphones and quality amps which will clearly reveal the differences.
Why do expensive DACs sound better? Differential balanced topology (lower noise, greater performance), custom filtering, quality input stage (isolation from external noise, superior jitter supression, higher resolution dithering/sampling, etc), real output stage (zero feedback, dynamics, bass, analog filtering, etc) and a real power supply (overbuilt transformers, quality components for pristine power delivery, properly drives the high end clocks, analog/digital stage power isolation, etc). Your're little baby Chinese shovelware $100 junk is often nothing but a chip and an XMOS controller stamped onto a PCB running off god-awful USB power or off a power brick with outputs driven by some chip amp. Pure trash! They are only better than motherboard DACs for no other reason than motherboard DACs are completely compromised by EM/RFI and power rail noise in the PC...and generally newer DACs all at least have TCXOs.
MrSpade
2
Feb 28, 2017
MrSpade
2
Feb 28, 2017
SenorPlatanoi have seen lot of people recomended the fiio 10k but it does seem to drive cans above 100ohms to their limits...i really have low knowledge about hifi world...just barely the basics
ld100
181
Feb 28, 2017
MrSpadeFulla 2 is not in the same league... Don't fool yourself... Also Fulla 2 plagued by issues...
Uzuzu
1431
Mar 1, 2017
GUTB"baby chinese shovelware" -gustard (chinese made) user. I wasn't aware massdrop had become a place for youtube troll comments. The comparison was between mid-fi components at different prices, not luxury/hi-fi hardware compared to it.
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 1, 2017
ld100The Fulla 2 has 3 problems. There's no indication light, if you're listening to it at a high volume while playing music and you unplug it, it crashes the music player, and you can't plug in things sometimes in the back because the metal blocks the plug. The first 2 aren't a problem for me, and the 3rd one isn't really worth the extra $400 to fix.
ld100
181
Mar 1, 2017
SenorPlatanoHow about numerous complains about pops, channel imbalance, noises from volume pot, etc... Too many issues for one little device...
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 1, 2017
ld100Never heard of that.
ld100
181
Mar 1, 2017
SenorPlatanoRead up various Fulla 2 reviews comments on youtube and Fulla 2 discussion on HeadFi... Issues are common. I have not seen any complains of Grace quality. Thinking that two devices are on the same level is just silly...
JTrubs
195
Mar 2, 2017
SenorPlatanoI have both the Schiit stack (2 Uber) and the Grace m9XX. I like the sound signature of both but can definitely hear a difference between the two, and I don't have stratospherically-priced headphones or interconnects. And while the Jotunheim, Modi and Grace all utilize the same converter chip, I prefer the implementation and feature set that Grace has utilized with the DAC. Is the Grace unit ~$100-$200 better sounding? Maybe, maybe not. But everyone hears things differently and it comes down to what a person likes. Cheers!
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 2, 2017
JTrubsI'm gonna start an audiophile bullshit fund soon, and I'm probably gonna get the Eikon/Atticus bundle and sell the Atticus. I've heard using an XLR cable actually improved the sound quality. The m9xx doesn't have an XLR cable, for $500.
Dragon13
32
Mar 2, 2017
ld100I've had the Schiit Fulla 2 since Christmas. I have not had a single issue at all with it. Currently using mainly with the 6xx with the preamp outs to my powered speakers and only reason I'll buy another amp is to try tubes. Hey maybe you're right and I have the only fully functional Fulla 2 ever produced. I really, really doubt it.
ld100
181
Mar 2, 2017
Dragon13I never said all of them are faulty. The one that I had was faulty... Also the volume pot was way off center. Cables did not go in. Cosmetically it was a mess. Screws on the top of the unit were damaged. I never seen brand new audio equipment with exposed screw heads on the top of the unit messed up. If you read comments on youtube under Zeos review and Fulla 2 thread on HeadFi you will find that quite a lot of people are having the same issues: Noise, unbalanced channels, volume pot issues, build, driver crashes, etc. Simply based on the pool of people who complain on public forums it is obvious that there are issues. Simple statistics. If there are dozens and dozens complaints you bet that this is just a small part of the group of Fulla 2 owners who are having issues... And I am sure there are a lot of owners like you who are perfectly happy. Grace is a better device which is considerably more pricey. It does not have any of Fulla 2 issues. I never seen any complaints about it... I do not think they are in the same league and to think that Fulla 2 is as good is foolish. It is a $100 dac/amp and it is decent at that. With design flaws and build issues... I would take Grace over it any day if money is not a factor. Also I found Fulla 2 sound signature unappealing on higher end headphones and in a hundred dollars range I personally think Audioquest Dragonfly sounds better... By the way I do not own Grace. Planning to get it at some point. Entirely possible that I will not like it either.
Dragon13
32
Mar 2, 2017
ld100I'm just stating my first hand experience with the Fulla 2. Didn't know you had actually owned one. You didn't like it. Fine, but to say that it is not a contender in comparison to the Grace is foolish. Forget about the price. The amount of performance you get out of the Fulla 2 is pretty great in and of itself. Now, when you consider the price, it's pretty incredible. Again, I'm only speaking based on my personal experience.
ld100
181
Mar 2, 2017
Dragon13Have you tried Micca Origin +? Audioquest Dragonfly? Or gazillion other Dac/Amps in that price range? Soundwise or powerwise Fulla 2 is not better that the rest. There is nothing that incredible about it. It has a right form factor and good feature set. If executed properly would of been great device in that range... But we are talking about Grace and Fulla 2 is not on the same level. All I am saying...
Dragon13
32
Mar 2, 2017
ld100Says someone that does not even own Grace.
Dragon13
32
Mar 2, 2017
ld100And also, I don't care if the Fulla 2 is not better than Grace. It does everything I need it to do, exceptionally well and I'm sure it will satisfy the needs of those that can not or do not want to spend $500 on the Grace.
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 2, 2017
ld100I own the Micca Origen +
ld100
181
Mar 2, 2017
Dragon13I do not need to own it to know that it performs better than Fulla 2. My opinion is based on my research on both devices, ownership of Fulla 2, ownership of other similar devices. In terms of the quality it is quite obvious as Grace has been out there for a year and a half and I believe there has been one complain about it on Head Fi... Fulla 2 has been out for three months and there are at least 100+ complains that I seen before I stopped following the Fulla 2 thread on Head Fi weeks ago... In terms of the sound I read numerous positive reviews for Grace. Some say it is not a great match for things like Senn HD650, but vast majority of owners highly praises it and uses with variety of headphones. In terms of the Fulla 2 my personal experience the sound was nothing spectacular. Good. Better than onboard pc DAC, but in the price range of a $100 my Dragonfly Black sounds better to me. Could I live with it? Yes if the quality of the build was better. Basically it is not something I could take with me with my iphone as a dac... And it is not good enough as desktop solution. It is convenient in some situations and sounds ok. Would I recommend it? No. Even a Schiit stack is a much better option...
ld100
181
Mar 2, 2017
SenorPlatanoI had Micca Origin + too... Not super amazing. Channel imbalance at lower volume similar to Fulla 2... Pushes Sinn HD600 just fine... Fulla 2 is much closer to Micca than to Grace imho...
Dragon13
32
Mar 3, 2017
ld100Maybe one day I'll decide to move on to a Grace or something more 'higher end'. Until then, Fulla 2 will do just fine ;)
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 4, 2017
MrSpadeWhat's your budget in Euros?
MrSpade
2
Mar 4, 2017
SenorPlatanoAbout 100 maybe 200 if it can justify Such price tag.
MrSpade
2
Mar 4, 2017
SenorPlatanoWhat is the Best pick from your expertise ?
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 4, 2017
MrSpadeThe only amp/dac I've ever owned is the Micca Origen+. It's only available on Amazon, not in France though. I got advice for my headphones and amp/dac from ZeosPantera. I just went on his SubReddit, searched everything under $200 on Amazon.fr and shared with you everything that showed up. The most expensive one is probably better?
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 4, 2017
MrSpadeThe headphones you have are only $200. I personally wouldn't spend more than 25% of the price of the headphones on a amp/dac. There aren't any $50 dac/amps though. That's just me though, some people spend 125%.
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 4, 2017
MrSpadeAre you gonna use it mobiley? This one is powerful enough for the K7XX but it has to be plugged into a wall socket. https://www.amazon.fr/SD-793II-Convertisseur-lentr%C3%A9e-Coaxial-Optique/dp/B00NLYMYCY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488597935&sr=8-1&keywords=SMSL+SD793
MrSpade
2
Mar 4, 2017
SenorPlatanoI highly doubt i will but i want to be able to plug a pair of good case on it and be able to use like up to 250-300ohm cans like if i decide to take better quality... All those above can do that ? I seen you seem to like the Fulla 2 nop ?
Dragon13
32
Mar 4, 2017
ld100Now I remember. You're that dude from Head-fi that go 'banned' from buying Schiit products for complaining. It all makes perfect sense now. Guess Schiit just didn't work out for you.
JTrubs
195
Mar 4, 2017
MrSpadeSMSL makes decent budget gear but, to be blunt, the SD-793 is under powered for 250-300 ohm headphones. The output spec for the 793 is 130mW @ 32ohms which will push sound out of 300 ohm cans but will not really drive them properly or get the most out of them. The SMSL 793 won't really do the job for the AKG K7XX either; while those cans have an impedance of just 62 ohms, they aren't terribly efficient and need a good amount of current.
Frustrating as it might be to hear, consider saving up to purchase a setup that's more expensive but will have the power that you need, will do what you want it to, and won't leave you disappointed. Schiit Audio has been mentioned several times here, they make very good equipment, and have distribution in Europe. > http://schiit.com/faq/international The Magni 2/Modi 2 component "stack", while a little out of your budget, is a great combination that will meet your desktop requirements. And if you want a device that's built a little closer to home, look into the similarly priced, single-box Objective2+ODAC manufactured by Swiss-based Head 'n' HiFi. > http://www.headnhifi.com/
Take your time, do your research, read reviews and threads on Head-Fi.org. There's an old saying, "buy right or buy twice", and it's a very appropriate one when it comes to audio gear. Cheers!
Dragon13
32
Mar 4, 2017
MrSpadeEverything TherapistGarfield mentioned is absolutely correct. BUT if you really are adamant about budget, Fulla 2 will do. My hd6xx sound great through it.
MrSpade
2
Mar 4, 2017
Dragon13Do you think you will need an upgrade later? Also can you plug a pair of stéréo cases on it ? I think not right ? As for the choices the only thing that piss me. Off with Schiit is the fact they only do Grey/Silver...
Dragon13
32
Mar 4, 2017
MrSpadeThe only reason I will ever upgrade is to try a tube amp but that would be out of desire and not necessity. And even then, i will still use the Fulla 2 as a DAC and use it's fixed line out to feed the tube amp while still using it's variable line out for my powered speakers on my desk. Yes, I really really like the Fulla 2. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by stereo cases but if you can tell me what they are I'd be more than happy to answer.
MrSpade
2
Mar 4, 2017
JTrubsYea i was over viewing O2+ODAC is it really worth the price tag ?
JTrubs
195
Mar 4, 2017
MrSpadeIf you're comparing the O2+ODAC to the SMSL products then yes, I think it is superior. I'm of the opinion that the O2, Schiit, and Grace products are in a considerably better league than SMSL. Not only better specs but also in terms of design, implementation and overall quality. The Objective2 amp and ODAC DAC are based on the tried and true designs of NwAvGuy, and manufactured by several different companies under the Common Creative License. > http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/08/o2-summary.html
While I own several other amps and DACs, I've only spent a little time listening to the O2+ODAC and haven't owned it. Please look up and read a few of the threads on Head-Fi.org and other websites for lots of other perspectives. Cheers!
ld100
181
Mar 4, 2017
Dragon13Yes. My unit had variety of issues. Instead of rectifying the situation one of the owners was unnecessarily rude. I sent the unit back. My opinion is based on the experience with the device. It has nothing to do with the situation with Schiit... Grace M9XX is five times more expensive than Fulla two and imho overpriced, but the question was why people would not just buy Schiit Jotunheim instead. And that somehow got into comparing a $100 Schiit product with Grace M9XX. All I am saying that a $100 dollars Dac and specifically a $100 Schiit Dac - Fulla 2 - is not in the same league. Between Grace M9XX and Jotunheim it might be a toss based on features. Schiit's Jotunheim has power, balanced, etc... Grace has filters, display, form factor... I was planning to buy Jotunheim, but I went with another brand based on my experience with Schiit. Comparing Grace M9XX with Fulla 2 does not make any sense. Two devices not in the same league. You are happy with Fulla 2 which is perfectly fine. People hear things differently and enjoy different things... I was not impressed with it at all and for my money even if it just a $100 I will not accept faulty product and will not let any asshole be rude to me.
Dubharmonic
90
Mar 4, 2017
SenorPlatanoThere's a very noticeable difference between the Schiit Modi 2 and Modi Multibit.
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 4, 2017
MrSpadeCase? You means speakers? Or headphones?
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 4, 2017
DubharmonicPeople say there's a difference between 320 kbps and 3000 kbps and I can't tell a difference. I can tell the difference between an album that's been remastered however. For example, Slint's Spiderland rereleased in 2014 vs the original 1991 version.
Dubharmonic
90
Mar 4, 2017
SenorPlatanoDepends on the codecs and the source recordings. Old masters disintigrate, and the details get lost forever.
ld100
181
Mar 4, 2017
SenorPlatanoIt is quite normal. There is not much difference between mp3 quality and lossless files. Some people can hear it and some don't. If you compare directly you probably will hear switching between the two.. But just listening to a properly encoded 320 mp3 most will not notice that it is a lossy recording... For remastered it is very different. Modern remasters are often not as good as originals. They are louder as the loudness is increased and tweaked to sound good on mp3 players. It is quite common that older releases sound far superior to modern remasters.
Dubharmonic
90
Mar 4, 2017
Dragon13High end audio is never a necessity 😜
Kiiddo
96
Mar 4, 2017
SenorPlatanosome of the Fulla 2 problems were fixed, there's still no indication light but it doesn't crash when plugging in/unplugging headphones anymore. If you saw that on Z reviews he corrected that and said that was just some of the earlier models that had that problem. Also as far as the back plug, it makes it so things you plug in don't rest against it flush, but it doesn't stop them from working, it's purely a cosmetic problem. For $100 I think it's a pretty good bargain. The no LED power indicator and the cosmetic plug problem on the back aren't huge issues imo.
ld100
181
Mar 5, 2017
KiiddoI believe you are correct on the first issue. I had an early unit that crashed... And you are incorrect on two. My cables did not go in all the way and that produced just static. Fulla 2 case prevented cables from going in just about a millimeter or so (1/24 of an inch I guess) and that surely stopped the unit from working... I do agree that device does not really need a power indicator. Not a problem at all.
MrSpade
2
Mar 5, 2017
Zhiwen
16
Mar 7, 2017
SenorPlatanoIt's contradictory to believe that >$100 DACs are not better and recommend an AMP from the same company that also makes $2300 DAC. The same guys who made the Jotunheim, also makes the $2300 DAC. Are you indirectly also saying that the Modi2 sounds as good as Yggdrasil and Schiit guys while are great at making AMPs, are clueless and deceiving people with their DACs line?
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 7, 2017
ZhiwenThat's exactly what I'm saying. That's why I like the Jotunheim. It's a great $400 amp, that you can also get a $200 DAC with. The DAC costs $100 but it's pretty high quality.
Dubharmonic
90
Mar 7, 2017
Talking to yourself again? 😜
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 7, 2017
DubharmonicI really miss when you could reply to comments with emojies anonymously
Zhiwen
16
Mar 7, 2017
SenorPlatanoI think you didn't get my point. The company that makes the $400 amp that you highly recommend is making $2300 DAC that you think is rubbish. Maybe the company is not as great as you think? if that is the case, maybe the $400 amp is not that great either.
I personally heard big differences in DAC. Howeve, I hear very little to no differences between low end Dac. So I always recommend getting at least a mid level Dac (>$100). I'm not a big fan of jotunheim either. It's not bad, it just does't sound any better than its competitors and definitely not a high end amp. It's a versatile and powerful decent mid range amp at midrange price.
MrSpade
2
Mar 9, 2017
SenorPlatanoHello again well i have been looking again at your links since i was under lots of task at work which didn't let me to decide yet. The first links you gave me from Amazon the delivry is between 2 and 5 months(lol) it's the M6 and from the cheaper ones i only seen the M3 which maybe can do the job tho if it's like the E10K seen many people complaining it doesnt push enough to perform optimal...which i could try first... I have watch and read of lot review from Zeos and it seem the best to invest in a Fulla 2(now that they corrected those major issues people seem to complain about) since it has a really good DAC inside. after he seem to advice that one you got the Micca Origen+ & also the monoprice one a.k.a "the brick" but what kinda stop me to buy those is the fact its only available in US seem so...as the Schiit one i found out they got a small Wharehouse in the Netherlands! Those the Micca or Monoprice are better than the Fulla 2 to take the risk with the custom or not at all and they are pretty much the same? Sorry for the long text and really thank you to have take the time to help me out i appreciate it!
P.S: about the price+transport i checked it will hit about 150$ for micca origen+ & Monoprice and Fulla 2 from the european website hits 135€ so kinda the same price tag approx...
SenorPlatano
389
Mar 11, 2017
MrSpadeMaybe get the Schiit Fulla 1? It's only $60.
MrSpade
2
Mar 11, 2017
SenorPlatanoOut of stock on the european website.
md6576
5
Apr 3, 2017
SenorPlatanoI can't tell the difference between 320kbps mp3 and lossless CD, but the difference between 3000kbps Hi-Res and normal CD is quite noticeable. Hi-Res delivers more clean background and more concentrated image.
Scarce97
238
Apr 10, 2017
GUTBAh, GUTB again I see haha!
Well, its really a shame that you pick the wrong forum to go around shitting on $100 DACs when people like us find spending $800 on a DAC pretty insane!
But, in all honesty, I think what you said can be true also, just that this is the forum for people like me to get cheap audio gear and save with the masses, not go full out HD 800S insane haha!
I would strongly recommend you not to go around and crapping on the entry level stuff that we have, and recommend a few options that you feel sounds good at a reasonable price that we might consider! Maybe there may be a company that makes good products with quality components at a reasonable price?
Let's be optimistic! :) Hope you have a nice day!
Scarce97
238
Apr 10, 2017
SenorPlatanoHello, the metal blocking the plug can be resolved by loosening the screws at the bottom of the unit.
"JoshMorr JoshMorr Friend Friend
@Kattefjaes does the list of destroyed cables include the one that was provided with the Fulla? On my Fulla the PCB with the usb jack is mounted .5mm too high making it diffucult to insert and remove the micro usb cabe. I slightly loosened the crew on the bottom to fix this problem."
http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-fulla-2-released.3439/page-13
ld100
181
Apr 11, 2017
Scarce97He is just being honest. In reality good stuff can be had for reasonable price. Fulla 2 that I had was too bright and unpleasantly harsh and had build issues. Micca was bright and there was noticeable channel unbalance... The latest Dragonfly Black is a $100 and sounds better that Fulla 2 and Micca to my ears. And there are plenty of reviews that support that. There are many budget quality Dacs and Amps from Foster, JDS, Schiit, and numerous other companies that are much better than overhyped products that got way to much attention for this or that reason. A price, a review, a clever marketing. You need to try a few to find out what you like. Jumping on a Fulla 2 train and expecting it to be the best thing since sliced bread is foolish.
Unfortunately it is an expensive hobby even if you buy lower end stuff...
doktor
54
May 22, 2017
ZhiwenHi, where do you think should I invest my 500bucks in then? I wanted to order the jotunheim, but not too sure now.... Answer would be much appreciated
Uzuzu
1431
May 22, 2017
doktorDefinitely the Jotunheim.
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