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IanAnderson
2590
Aug 20, 2015
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The difference in cost comes from the material. Barenia® is much more comparable to shell in terms of cost and rarity as opposed to CXL or something of that nature. If you do some googling on it you'll see how amazing it is! I mean if Hermes uses it, it must be pretty good :)
And to be clear, this wallet is saddle stitched, not "saddlestitched". I'm not sure why you'd think we're faking it here.
Pic of Barenia Birkin by Hermes (I won't mention the price because it's insane):
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Aug 20, 2015
andreewlee
40
Aug 20, 2015
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IanAndersonActually, the cost is comparable to CXL, if not cheaper if you live in Europe. Hermes' exorbitant prices are due to the fact that each bag is handmade by a single artisan from start to finish, not because of the material they use (though they will not settle for anything less than the best). Anyone can make leather goods out of Barenia/shell cordovan; I just find it ridiculous that rather than pricing something for it's craftsmanship, the trendy leather market has been pricing things based on material alone (more cordovan, anyone?) coupled with mediocre attention to detail.
Proper saddle stitching (edited my comment, forgot a [space] ), if you take a look at the photo you attached, has a distinct angled pattern. If someone's going to use the esteemed Barenia for their product, it should be respectfully crafted.
So, $40 for a leather pocket?
Aug 20, 2015
IanAnderson
2590
Aug 20, 2015
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andreewleeYes, agreed that most of the cost of Hermes comes from the brand name and the craftsmanship. But I digress.
I don't want to get in to an argument over this, as you're certainly entitled to your opinion and I'm not trying to make you buy this. I'm just trying to say that $40 shipped for a cardholder made by hand by a single dude in the US out of a famous leather is an extremely fair price as far as I'm concerned. Look at brands like Ashland, Tanner Goods, etc - great products and great materials, but even those are machine stitched in a factory rather hand made by an artisan, and cost twice as much. Go on Amazon, etc and you'll see bonded leather wallets from Fossil, Calvin Klein, whatever at the same price as this one.
Nobody's getting rich off of this, we're just working with a guy that makes products that we like and giving the community an opportunity to get them at a lower price. If you like the design, that's cool, if not no worries. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Aug 20, 2015
GuardedGoods
158
Guarded Goods
Aug 20, 2015
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andreewleeTrust me when I say my pricing isn't solely based on what is "popular" or "trendy". There are lots of other costs that go into pricing a product. Time is certainly a big factor.
I have a similar pricing model for all my items that I sell and this follows the same one. It isn't anything different because it is Barenia Calf. To suggest I'm merely another "trendy" leather worker trying to capitalize on popular leathers wouldn't be fair. Massdrop is a wonderful platform to offer products that can reach a wide range of people that otherwise wouldn't normally see your product. It needs to be priced fairly to market standards (which this is) and something that I can actually fulfill since this is my side hobby.
I can go ahead and offer a more complex product ( http://imgur.com/a/4aGIq ) but people aren't going to shell out (bad joke) $400 - $500 for a full Shell Cordovan wallet. Mainly because it isn't a price point most people are comfortable with as well as I just don't have the time to fulfill a large scale order seeing as I'm one guy doing every single step by hand (It's not just a few steps either... please look into this 104 image gallery of the process of making a wallet: http://imgur.com/a/ugB91 ).
There isn't such a thing as "proper saddle stitching" either. The angle of the thread is caused by how you're piercing the hole with your awl. To get the angle, you need to pierce the hole like: / / / / / / while I prefer to pierce my holes like - - - - - because I like the aesthetic of the straight stitches (more "American" style) rather than angled (more European). It's the exact same resiliency but just has a different aesthetic.
If you don't want to pay $36 - $40 for a "leather pocket", then don't. I'm just one guy making wallets with my hands because it is fun.
Aug 20, 2015
andreewlee
40
Aug 20, 2015
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IanAndersonYep! We are all entitled to our own opinions. I really enjoy the discussion board per product, as I am always learning new things and allows discussions with the vendors as well. You'll be seeing me more often on your future leather products' discussion boards ;)
I'm just biased cause I recently started doing leather as a hobby, and as I joked earlier, I should consider devoting more time to this for some side cash.
Aug 20, 2015
GuardedGoods
158
Guarded Goods
Aug 20, 2015
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andreewleeTotally fair!
Well let me know if you ever have any questions on your new hobby. While a lot of people do this for a living and are hesitant to helping out future "competition", I do this primarily as a hobby so I always like helping new people out.
I have tons of resources on tools, vendors and some patterns over on /r/leathercraft on reddit.
Aug 20, 2015
andreewlee
40
Aug 20, 2015
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GuardedGoodsNice pun *thumbs up* Nice tutorial too! That's a lot of money you have invested into your hobby, especially for the dies.
Well Ian mentioned it was priced due to the Barenia calf, and that was one of my main points. As for the straight pierces with the awl, maybe I just haven't seen enough/been in the hobby long enough. I lean towards the European-eque look, so that's all I see from the people I follow on social media platforms.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that people aren't going to dish out $300+ for a wallet here, but it's just that if I sold something like this, I would personally price it at $25-30.
In the end, we're different people with different ideals. I don't have a degree in economics, nor do I have any experience in the leather business, so my opinion is worth about as much as a scrap of leather. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Aug 20, 2015
andreewlee
40
Aug 20, 2015
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GuardedGoodsOops just saw this reply as I posted my response to your first reply.
Thanks! I recently joined /r/leathercraft a few weeks back, and recognized your imgur handle immediately haha.
Aug 20, 2015
GuardedGoods
158
Guarded Goods
Aug 21, 2015
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andreewleeYou also have to keep in mind the cost to source leathers from European tanneries. Yes, if you compare CXL to Barenia just on a square foot pricing basis, they're relatively close. Then you need to factor in shipping (which ends up being nearly the same cost as the leather), banking foreign transaction fees and wire transfers, and then any additional costs from customs that may follow. It adds up and it isn't as easy to source as CXL.
Aug 21, 2015
Penguinsoda
3
Aug 21, 2015
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GuardedGoodsActually, Barenia is probably easier to obtain than Chromexcel, if we're speaking on a "First" quality hide straight from the tannery. The Tannery Row can take easily from 1-3 months to ship out some run-of-the-mill Chromexcel or Dublin to hobbyist leatherworkers.
On the other hand, Tannery Degermann, which is the only tannery selling Barenia to non-corporate entities, has no minimum order requirement and will sell to literally anyone who gives them a call, and will likely get their leather to your doorstep faster than Horween could. Last time I checked, their pricing was something like 100$/sq.meter, which puts it a couple dollars cheaper than Chromexcel per sq.foot. Furthermore, the cost of logistics involved in obtaining an object does not in any way increase the inherent value of it.
Aug 21, 2015
GuardedGoods
158
Guarded Goods
Aug 21, 2015
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PenguinsodaI'm guessing you're Fides?
I would fully disagree unless you've actually ordered Barenia Calf. I can call Shelley from Horween on the phone, give her my credit card and tell her what I want. My leather will arrive 2 weeks - 2 months later. Pretty simple process.
Tannerie Degermann was only available via email (at least to me) and often went 3 - 4 days between contact. You can't just give them your credit card either. Payment needs to be done via wire transfer which requires going to the bank and working with an agent. Shipping took about 1 - 2 weeks on top of that.
The cost to acquire raw material doesn't increase the inherent value of it but it certainly does make it more expensive in the long run. Not by much but it certainly affects the price. I'm not just pulling these prices out of thin air. I'm an analyst by trade and have P&Ls built for all of my products. I can tell you exactly what I'm using in terms of cost for glue, thread, gum tragacanth for each product. I can tell you exactly how long in hours/minutes each product will take based on the stitches per inch I'm using and the style of the wallet and what the cost of labor is. When selling on Massdrop, another factor is their percentage cut which is also factored into the final pricing tiers.
I don't take lightly the fact that my prices are being called into question based on "trendy market influences". My pricing is incredibly well thought out from an analytical stand point.
There are only a few other makers on the market I've found making similar card wallets in Barenia Calf to mine and it'll run you nearly 1.5x - 2x the cost.
Like I said before, if you don't like the pricing, don't buy it (not that you would anyway since you also have your own leather business).
Aug 21, 2015
andreewlee
40
Aug 22, 2015
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GuardedGoodsActually, A-side chromexcel/leather was pretty hard to get directly from Horween/tannery, as their price/sq. ft were simply out of my budget for smaller orders. Had to resort to looking around local shops, and even then, it's difficult to source decent sides as a small hobbyist. Maybe it's easier for you since you make larger orders/run a business?
As for @penguinsoda, let's see if he's the famous /u/give_me_candy I see on /r/leathercraft (I doubt it)
*grabs popcorn
Aug 22, 2015
chris_was_taken
24
Aug 23, 2015
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GuardedGoodsIt's priced very well. And it's beautiful. Great design, great leather choice - looks like a perfect balance between being thin but still rigid. $40 for a hand-made good out of a very premium leather that will last a lifetime and age with you.
Aug 23, 2015
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