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guvnor
735
Jul 10, 2017
I have a pair of titanium chopsticks that gets carried with other Ti utensils for my camping bag.
I don't use them at home since they can leave marks on ceramic bowls and dishes.
Abohir
82
Jul 10, 2017
guvnorMy titanium watches are all scratched up while my stainless watches are flawless.
I really doubt you need to worry about your titanium utensils damaging your ceramic bowls. The stainless spoons are a much greater danger!
guvnor
735
Jul 10, 2017
AbohirTi utensils leave trail marks on ceramics precisely because it's softer than stainless steel. It's basically being ground away while the harder stainless utensils just skate over the surface.
Cyphre
2708
Jul 10, 2017
guvnorIncorrect, all stainless is softer than the titanium you'd find in use in commercial products. In fact the only stainless that even comes close to being as hard as Grade 5 titanium is 440, which you'll rarely ever find used other than in the blades of budget knives. Unless your particular items are stated as being somewhere in the 99% titanium range, which is not something often used because it doesn't have any particular advantages over traditional 6Al4V titanium.
That's not to say I don't believe whatever it is you are witnessing, but most ceramic dishware has a pretty shiny finish which wouldn't wear away at metals whatsoever. However, metal utensils will eventually scratch that finish and become scratched for a variety of reasons.
guvnor
735
Jul 11, 2017
CyphreYou'll have to link the source where you got your information from, because Grade 5 Ti will only get to about mid 40s on Rockwell C scale while 440A will easily get to mid 50s.
Cyphre
2708
Jul 11, 2017
guvnorMcmaster.com, or literally any source for raw material purchases. Obviously, depending on the source, will give you variations on hardness ratings. Doesn't change the fact that 440 is really only commonly found in budget pocket knives, and possibly kitchen cutlery (I rarely see metal types advertised in cutlery unless its VG-10 or something fancy). Feel free to link me to the source of whatever utensils (not knives) you are using that are harder than the average titanium.
guvnor
735
Jul 11, 2017
CyphreMcMaster lists their Grade 5 Ti hardness at 30 on the Rockwell C scale. 440 is harder than Ti, and still 440 isn't considered very hard by today's standards when compared to modern powdered alloys with high carbide content.
Which is why your comment of "the only stainless that even comes close to being as hard as Grade 5 titanium is 440" is as wrong as it can be.
Ti is very soft. It's why a cheap 440A blade will hold an edge longer than a blade made of Grade 5 Ti. It's why Ti blades are only typically found on diving knives, where corrosion resistance is far more important than wear resistance. And it's why the few Ti folders and fixed blades intended for EDC use are carbidized at the edge.
Here is a regular stainless chopstick on the left vs. a Ti chopstick on the right. A few swipes and look at that, the softer Ti leaves a mark as it's essentially being ground away.
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Cyphre
2708
Jul 11, 2017
guvnorTitanium isn't soft at all unless it's Grade 2, I even pointed you to a source and once again, only one steel comes close which is 440, something that isn't used in utensils. 440 and any Steel can be made in all various hardness ranges because it's partly down to chemistry and mostly down to heat treatment.
440 has pretty terrible edge retention and only barely qualifies as a proper knife steel. The only reason titanium wouldn't be used to substitute it at the same range is cost. However, it generally isn't used in knives because there are other better steels. Or more importantly, higher carbon steels (which are not stainless) such as those used in professional cutlery.
As I said, I don't doubt you have some sort of issue with whatever you happen to be using, but unless you were actually referencing the product on this page, your point is moot, as are your statements regardless titanium. Please don't spread misinformation about titanium if you don't know enough about it.
Cyphre
2708
Jul 11, 2017
guvnorGosh golly gee, you sure got me there with all your posted sources!
Except you didn't, because you've yet to refute any point I've made. Per the original response, I was stating 440 as a comparative because there really aren't any other harder stainless steel grades. Feel free to let me know what utensils you happen to have that are made from 440 though, because you also haven't indicated that is what your comparison image contains!
At the end of the day, you bought some cheaper titanium chop sticks which are most definitely softer and cheaper than 6Al4V titanium. But I tell you what, when I get back from vacation and if I still remember, I'll pick up a few pieces of the various grades of titanium I can find and test it on my own ceramic dishes to bring about a more scientific comparison as to why you get marks. If anything, I am just as interested in testing and seeing results as to what is more suitable.
guvnor
735
Jul 11, 2017
CyphreYou stated "the only stainless that even comes close to being as hard as Grade 5 titanium is 440". I showed with multiple references that even 440A is much harder than 6Al4V. That's called refuting.
My stainless chopsticks are decades old and definitely not as hard as 440. But that's the point. An unknown stainless obviously softer than 440 is still hard enough to not leave a mark, unlike Ti.
And you seem to have automatically assumed these Inspirs set of chopsticks are made of Grade 5, but it's not listed anywhere. Their kickstarter page does say "100% pure titanium", which would suggest Grade 1-4.
My Ti set probably are Grade 2, as manufacturers do in fact prefer pure unalloyed Ti for food related products. For example Vargo uses Grade 2 and Snow Peak uses Grade 1.
I definitely won't be holding my breath for you to remember doing anything beyond speculations based on imagination.