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Wodan
643
Jul 29, 2016
Finally got mine today! LOL those Dyesub PBT Keycaps are one of the biggest disapointments ever. Not only did I get the legendary Backspase keycap, My "S" keycap is also the wrong row profile!
But there's more. I don't know how many of you have gotten Gateron switches with their KC60. Well I did. And together with the Costar stabilizers used by the manufacturer collide with the CRAPPY Gateron switches. Once again Gateron is dropping the ball. The lower switch shell is a tiny bit larger than original Cherry MX switches (did a comparison) and the stabilizer wire rests on that tiny bit of overhand the lower shell has:
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This prevents ANY stabilized keys from raising all the way up. My Backspase, Enter and both Shift keys were 1-2mm lower than the rest of the row. Fortunately, the plate allows switch top removal so I removed the switch top and cut off the lower shell overhang with a x-acto knife:
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Put the switches back together and the stabilizer bar can finally raise all the way up:
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Still like the keyboard ... wouldn't ever even consider getting these poor excuses for dyesub PBT caps. Last picture also nicely shows the wrong profile "S" keycap. Had to do this with all stabilized keys except for the space bar.
Tsuruya
27
Jul 30, 2016
WodanI have the same problem on mine. I should have gone for cherry mx.
dixius99
19
Aug 3, 2016
WodanI just finished cutting the overhang off of my stabilized keys too, and they all seem to be working fine now. FYI, I didn't even bother taking the tops off. I used the harder plastic on the top as a guide to know how much of the bottom to trim away. Seemed to work out okay.
Wodan
643
Aug 3, 2016
dixius99Oh that's cool. Guess I just wanted to brag a little with my top opening skills ;)
dixius99
19
Aug 3, 2016
WodanI was the opposite: I was afraid if I tried to take the top off, I'd ruin it! Figured I'd do the least amount of work first and then look at breaking the switch apart if I had to :)
elFick
319
Aug 3, 2016
dixius99I went the opposite direction and bent the stab wires. It seemed to work fine and was more reversible than cutting the switch tops.
noroadsleft
34
Aug 4, 2016
dixius99I did the same as you did.
My board arrived this morning and I gave it a pre-installation inspection before connecting it to my computer. Noticed the same stabilizer issue as has been well-documented at this point, so I pulled the keycaps and trimmed the switch housings with an X-Acto knife. Also opened the case and inspected the PCB to make sure I didn't have any missing diodes/resistors or things like that. All was in order.
Gateron Brown switches White case White LEDs White PBT Laser Engraved keycaps
I was getting fairly envious of everybody who went for the dye-sublimated keycaps (they look gorgeous, and I find the "Backspase" rather endearing), but having these I'm actually quite enjoying how they look. I'm kind of a sucker for monochromatic themes and I'm totally pleased with these keycaps. I realize they won't last like dyesubs but I'm okay with that, and the dyesub set is available on both eBay and AliExpress so I can always order them later.
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weinbee
5
Aug 5, 2016
noroadsleftMine is finally shipped today and I have the same setup minus LEDs. How do the Gateron Browns feel to type on with this board? Not excited to have to modify the switch housings to make the stabilized keys feel right, but that's not the worst thing ever.
noroadsleft
34
Aug 5, 2016
weinbeeI'm typing on it now. So much nicer than the rubber dome keyboard it's replacing. The tactility is a bit faint, but not unseen. MX Clears or an equivalent switch might be more my style. But I'm loving the experience. I feel like typing ALL THE THINGS.
This is my first mechanical keyboard, so I might not be the best person to ask. But I can already tell I'm going to want more boards.
weinbee
5
Aug 5, 2016
noroadsleftAwesome! I think it's a pretty great place to start. I started with a Logitech G710 with Cherry browns, then got a WASD Code TKL with Cherry clears for work, and just recently switched to a Leopold FC660C with topre so my KC60 is going to be joining a happy little family. Glad to hear you're liking the mechanical life so far - I can definitely recommend Cherry clears or browns. Cherry browns are pretty soft but the clears are a little stiffer and really fun. Topre is amazing of course, but $200 entry level for those boards mean you probably have to already have a keyboard problem to join that club. You'll be there soon enough! :D
noroadsleft
34
Aug 5, 2016
weinbeeI have the Cooler Master Switch Tester from a Massdrop buy that was right about the time of this one and the Topre Novatouch stem was the most surprising of the six (also MX Red, Black, Brown, Blue and Green). I'm thinking at some point I'm going to want a Novatouch.
I'm loving all the desk space I have now. I've only ever had fullsize boards (three or four of them), and now I have an extra 8 inches of desk space that I didn't know I was missing. I'm already getting a bit used to the function layer, but I will need some more time with it because I did use all the keys on my fullsize (including the numpad). I'm a frequent user of keyboard shortcuts and I have a history of using things like Ctrl-(Shift-)Left Arrow which are totally muscle memory on a fullsize, but take a bit more mental energy on a 60%.
ProtoTRD
46
Aug 6, 2016
noroadsleftI think the biggest thing that held me off was holding on to the caps lock. If you reprogram the caps lock into an Fn key, it will make reaching your special functions much much easier.
billnye
65
Aug 6, 2016
noroadsleftThe beauty of a fully programmable keyboard is that with a little patience and understanding of your own muscles and their own memory you can sometimes find smooth transitions.
I've been using just the 60% portion of my TKL as a test before jumping on this drop (a CM QFR/greens with a Frosty Flake programmable replacement controller, good stuff). In my experiment I've set up a mostly complete function layer on my keyboard, based on some of the ideas in Hasu's QMK layouts [https://github.com/jackhumbert/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/infinity_chibios/keymaps/hasu/keymap.c] and tweaked for my own use.
I know that my own control and shift presses for such "select and navigate" operations always ALWAYS come from holding (and dancing on) the left side keys while navigating with my right, so keeping the cursor control accessible cleanly with ONLY the right hand was a big factor for my own muscle memory. Depending on your own hand posture and easy reach range, it may be more convenient to have something closer to the new arrow cluster assigned as a tap key where held acts as Fn and tapping acts as the natural key--say semicolon. I currently use the .> key but the amount of times I accidentally fire off a Fn combination at the end of a sentence or the middle of a decimal number may convince me to adjust ;) All that remains is to add the few remaining keys like PrSc/ScrLock/Pause, Media controls, etc. and I think I'll be good to go when the KC60 arrives.
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noroadsleft
34
Aug 6, 2016
ProtoTRDIt's amusing to me that you say that, because I had the thought yesterday that I should move the Fn key to Caps Lock. I use Caps Lock on occasion, but not so often that it needs to be an easy reach, so I think I'll end up doing a straight swap. But I'm gonna stick with the default configuration for a few more days and see what other changes come to mind.
noroadsleft
34
Aug 6, 2016
billnyeThat's a pretty decent layout. I like how you put the mouse click on the spacebar. I considered doing a layout with mouse control, but I'm not convinced it's necessary for me, as I already own a travel mouse and two trackballs, but it's probably great if you use your board in situations where having a mouse isn't ideal or possible (like on a plane or riding in a car).
A while back I made a layout for the KC60 with the navigation keys on I, O, P, K, L, and Semicolon, then Print Screen, Scroll Lock and Pause were [, ], and \. With vim-style arrows, you could replicate this by moving the nav keys to the left (something like Q W E A S D).
The tap key idea actually seems nicely suited for staying on Caps Lock (if you like having a Caps Lock key). I'd dislike having a dual-mode key on a key that actually inputs text or modifies text when held. As Caps Lock doesn't do either, it seems a good location for that.
Something I love about this keyboard (and the reason I chose it over a Pok3r) is the full programmability. If I don't like something, I can change it. I can customize it to how I use the board.
billnye
65
Aug 6, 2016
noroadsleftI think my own usability breakthroughs were in realizing the fact that for me the muscle memory in the advanced ctrl/shift+cursor had more to do with not interfering with my own "left pinky for control, left ring for shift, left index for X C V" juggle when editing text in windows-style situations ingrained over long long years of use, and to preserve the same ability that dedicated keys provide for one-handed cursor navigation with only my right hand.
Especially with a history of gaming and vi-keys etc., I think my brain adapted much smoother to the "oh no, the nav cluster isn't a 2x3 grid plus an inverted T" than I believe it would have to re-learning what fingers to use for shift and control in *specifically* the navigation case vs. the general case. Unlike some forms of typing, I think for me the task-based nature of "jump backward word by word, now switch to fine-location by character" or "go to the end of the line then highlight to the start of the line" gets abstracted away in much the same way that using a keyboard or controller to play a game soon becomes less "PRESS X NOW!" and more just "jump."
Of course if your own typing muscles tell you otherwise then my path to personal discovery stays... personal. :D
noroadsleft
34
Aug 6, 2016
billnyeYeah, the "jump by word" and "go to end of line, then highlight back to the start of the line" are requiring some mental gymnastics on my part so far. The default configuration works if I'm using the arrows on their own, but I'm struggling a bit with the word-by-word and full-line situations. I may swap the Fn and Caps Lock keys (or do Caps Lock as a tap key) and move the navigation keys to the right, like the following.
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