Kizer Ki4473 GPB1 Titanium Folding Knife Discussions | Drop

Jan 11, 2018

nextcityEvery single website and every review on YouTube says this knife has bearings, and not one person has mentioned the thumb stud pushing through the blade.

Jan 11, 2018

eksuen

748

Jan 11, 2018

DougFLA123This video says washers. Follow link and not the embedded video or jump to 7:27. https://youtu.be/qdKNqYpP9bE?t=447

Jan 11, 2018

Jan 11, 2018

eksuenI'm concerned about this too. Does it have bearings or not? I've watched all the YouTube reviews and this is the only one to take it apart and it obviously didn't have bearings. Some show top down views of the pivot area and it shows phosphor bronze washers or caged bearing assemblies. I'd happily buy it from MD if it has bearings.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrOGCcAdrgw

Jan 11, 2018

tacdrvrThis video says it has bearings and shows a top down view with what looks like bearing cages at about the 5:56 thru 6:06 min mark. It was published in Oct 2016 whereas the one above was published in Mar 2017. That makes me wonder if they started cut costs in the later versions.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

tacdrvrThat seems like it could be a possibility..... I've sent a message to the manufacturer to just ask them directly, but I'm guessing a reply won't come before this drop ends

Jan 11, 2018

Jan 11, 2018

tacdrvrOf course, it seems like that would leave the many retailers (including MD) open to false advertisement claims, would it not? Seems it would be in their interest to actually monitor these comments and weigh in with an answer.
(full disclosure, for a price less than half the average retail price, my curiosity got the better of me and I joined the drop already....but still interested in figuring this out both to know what to expect to be getting, and as a general matter of principal)

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

eksuenI watched this video yesterday and was going to post it this morning, so I’m glad you did. I’m really disappointed. I thought I was getting a $220 ball bearing pivot knife for $100. There is a different video that shows ball bearings! Which knife will we be getting here at Massdrop?

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

tacdrvrIt makes sense that the only reason this knife is selling for $100 is because they’ve cut costs. That really sucks! It seems a little deceptive.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

nextcityhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?t=628s&v=t4b5pXbV4G4 This video says really nice and

smooth on phosphor bronze washers at the 4:42 minute mark.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

DougFLA123My smoothest knives run on PB washers, not bearings. Both can be nice; I wouldn't judge a knife based on that without trying it first.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

DougFLA123Yeah it's a bummer if no bearings. I do have plenty of other knives without bearings and they work fine. I also have plenty of knives with titanium scales that have bearings for under $50. Those have D2 steel not S35VN, but not sure that alone is worth another $50 in price. I just ordered an unbranded knife with 4mm thick D2, titanium scales, steel insert/over travel stop, and bearings for $64 that was reviewed on YouTube. On the other hand it's a John Gray design is really cool, it has great materials (except possibly bearings), it's a total beast, and should have Kizer build quality. I'm just on the fence. If I knew one way or the other it would make the decision easier. I'll likely still do the drop even with washers, but like you alluded to its deceptive if it lists bearings and we don't get them.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

daaperWell, not judging the performance of it. But i think it's still fair to be bothered by the potential false advertisement and the perceived additional monetary value that's not there if it turns out to be what we're think it is.
Especially if this change is across the board, and if people buying from other retailers (who also advertise as having bearings) at $220 are getting washers.... I'd feel worse for them. At $100 I'll take the chance, but you know I'll be taking mine apart to see within the first day or two

Jan 11, 2018

bdpf

233

Jan 11, 2018

tacdrvrI wouldn't be basing my decision on bearings vs washers as knives can be great with either, however I was also watching all the videos yesterday in order to decide if I would like it or not. From what I have seen, I believe it's on washers. Not only based on the Birdshot IV video, but on all videos, the falling of the blade is smooth but slow. A blade this heavy would most likely fall shut, guillotine style, if on bearing. Since it's not a flipper, so no finger guard, and it's actually a heavy blade, I believe that it is best to be in washers in this case and that's probably what the designer went with. Just my 2c.

Jan 11, 2018

Jan 11, 2018

KavikI agree that the description should be accurate, but people are talking like this knife is complete crap if it doesn't run on bearings or that bearings somehow equal a higher value knife. For instance, CRK's are $400+ knives that run on PB washers (there are plenty of others). There are even some custom knife makers that only use teflon washers and swear by them. I've had bearing knives with gritty action (some from Kizer); it's not like they're the be-all-end-all of great action. Just my 2 cents...

Jan 11, 2018

Jan 11, 2018

daaperPersonally I don't think it'll be crap at all. I think it'll be freaking awesome. I'm just seeing lots of high end knives lately switching to bearings and run smoother than a hot blade thru butter. I have several titanium knives on bearings that don't guillotine and drop smoothly. It's more the listing that bugs me. I just like to know what I'm getting. Definitely worth $100 though bearings or not.

Jan 11, 2018

Jan 11, 2018

tacdrvrI know what you mean. The way Massdrop has been with their description (sometimes shipping a completely different knife), it could be either and I would prefer to know what I'm buying as well.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

daaperAgreed, it could still be a great knife either way, we'll see. I think the guy who first brought it up was bashing on it having washers (and did it in a way that put a few people, myself included, on edge), but i think most just want to know one way or the other at this point (again, myself included)

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

nextcityIt looks like you’re right about it not having bearings. Some websites say bearings and some videos say bearings, but one video shows it apart and it definitely has washers.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

daaperThere is nothing wrong with high-end knives using PB washers. The reason I think it's important here is due to the weight of the blade and the lack of a flipper tab.

Jan 11, 2018

Jan 11, 2018

MaxwellDemonicI think you have that backwards. Manufacturers usually employ bearings on lighter, flipper blades. Larger/hard-use blades typically use washers, over bearings.

Jan 11, 2018

Jan 11, 2018

daaperGah, you're right, sleep deprivation got the better of me xD. Either way, I personally prefer the feel of an action on bearings (provided they're properly cleaned and lubricated) over PB washers. That's not to say I can't enjoy the action without bearings. My 940-1 operates flawlessly on phosphor bronze.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

nextcity

Jan 11, 2018

dooly_notedI owned one and took it apart.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Sefali

190

Jan 11, 2018

tacdrvrExactly. It’s not about quality, or lack thereof, it’s about me getting what I paid for. If you sell me on a knife with a bearing pivot, it better arrive with a bearing pivot.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

nextcity

Jan 11, 2018

tacdrvrThe top down view is of the PH Washers. I owned one and took it apart. That is what they look like.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

MaxwellDemonicI feel the same way. Sometimes I find myself defaulting to knives with bearings. Then I bought a PM2 and realized how smooth a relatively inexpensive knife can be on PB washers.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

nextcityCan you tell us if it has 4 phosphor bronze washers or does it have 2 phosphor bronze and 2 synthetic/Teflon ones?

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

daaperThe concerns people have are definitely valid. if Kizer is cutting corners on Massdrop orders that's a huge deal and would absolutely make me rethink buying their products. I'm well and truly surprised that no one has a posted a disassembly video on this knife. Other than the question of the washers, I'm still enthralled with the blade shape and the thumb-stud stop-pin system.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

MaxwellDemonicIf i ever get a response from Kizer, I'll be sure to update here as to what they say. If they say it's ball bearings and then the mass drop gets washers, you're right, that'd be shady as hell and would completely put me off both the company and this site. But at this point it's sounding more like they just use washers in general now perhaps, and no one is updating their site descriptions.

Jan 11, 2018

Jan 11, 2018

MaxwellDemonicI don't see PB washers, instead of bearings, as a sign of cutting corners; there are plenty of very cheap knives that come with bearings. However, I completely agree that anyone purchasing anything online has the right to know exactly what they're buying since they can't physically hold it.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

MaxwellDemonicI don't think it a question of Massdrop orders being different but more a question of why Kizer lists bearings and doesn't use them. Are there any Kizer reps that monitor this site that could shed some light on it?

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

daaperI'm talking from a cost savings perspective. Bearings are significantly more expensive than a pair of PB washers. It's less about a degrading of quality than it is cost savings based on who they're selling the knives to. So if it's a change made across the board it's less scandalous than if it's exclusive to the Massdrop version.
Really we just need to wait for Kizer to respond.

Jan 11, 2018

Vote

Jan 11, 2018

MaxwellDemonicI guess my definition of significant is a little different. Saving 50 cents on a $100+ knife doesn't seem like it would be worth changing the design over. Especially when this sale is limited to 100 knives. Why go through the hassle to save $50? Doesn't make sense to possibly damage their reputation by purposefully misrepresenting their product. Seems more likely this was a marketing error than a cost-saving change. Either way, people should know what they're buying.

Jan 11, 2018