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Showing 1 of 11 conversations about:
Swayne
53
Mar 28, 2018
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I wouldn't trust Kizer knives... Bought one and the tip of the blade broke off. Massdrop told me it only has a 30 day warranty, so I'm stuck with a broken knife.
Mar 28, 2018
Omniseed
1972
Mar 28, 2018
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SwayneUsually when the tip of a knife breaks off it's because the user was doing something foolish with it.
I say usually but I mean upwards of 90% of the time it's due to improper use.
What were you doing with it?
Mar 28, 2018
Swayne
53
Mar 28, 2018
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OmniseedI was trying to cut a piece of plastic off something I was building for my son. The tip knicked, and I mean knicked (I wasn't prying or stabbing it) a screw that was beneath the plastic when the plastic cut. The whole thing seemed super innocuous and I was genuinely shocked.
Thanks for accusing me of tomfoolery with knives btw, that's exactly what I need along with a broken knife.
Mar 28, 2018
Omniseed
1972
Mar 28, 2018
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SwayneSo you hit a piece of steel with the most vulnerable part of a blade made of high hardness steel designed for edge retention.
Things chip and break, I wasn't accusing you of tomfoolery, but I was curious about what specifically would have caused your Kizer to suffer damage. And it turns out the cause of damage was something that would have caused chips or worse in any knife not designed purely for toughness. If you had hit a screw with an ESEE 4 and lost the tip, that would be weird and sketchy for a thick piece of 1095.
But the tip of an S35VN pocketknife? Those are generally not designed to stand up to the kind of mayhem that can occur while using a knife as a chopper. Running the tip of a pocketknife into a piece of steel is something that will often result in a broken tip, and is not a sign of a problem with the manufacturer.
Maybe you could get ahold of Kizer and see how they feel about doing warranty service for you, just tell them how it happened and ask their suggestion for getting your tip back. Depending on the model they may surprise you and just offer a replacement knife or blade, or maybe they have a warranty outlet stateside that could grind a new tip onto your existing knife.
All edged tools are inherently consumable due to the nature of their use and what happens while sharpening them, and their longevity is severely reduced when they get driven into other steel objects. There's no way around that, it's not Kizer's fault that one of their knives same away from a collision with a screw with some damage.
Mar 28, 2018
Swayne
53
Mar 28, 2018
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OmniseedYou sound like you work for them! (I'd add a smiley face after that if Massdrop allowed it - no malice intended). There's no way I can convey the force involved in the incident over a message like this, but I'd stand in a courtroom and testify to my reaction being, "What? Really?" when it happened.
I guess I'll try to contact them though, hadn't thought of that. I guess I was just really bummed about the whole thing - I've had such good experiences with Massdrop in dealing with things being defective.
Mar 28, 2018
Swayne
53
Mar 28, 2018
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OmniseedBy the way, the knife that I had was made of VG-10. How does that compare to S35VN you mentioned? Has someone done a post on here comparing the various kinds of steel? I'm a frequent knife user, but a total newb as relates to the technical side of things.
Mar 28, 2018
Swayne
53
Mar 30, 2018
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OmniseedKizer wants 30 bucks for a replacement blade. Guess that goes along well with their 30 day warranty.
Mar 30, 2018
lobster
687
Mar 31, 2018
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SwayneI think it is certainly possible that there may have been an error in the heat treatment on your knife . I have seen some kizer folders demonstrating warped blades both along the spine and one with a warped edge. I have cracked a whole condor blade right in half after the very first tap against a log I keep inside my room. i would estimate the force I aplied was around 5lbs and it just exploded into two large pieces and one small fragment. The condor is a chopper 20” long and made of 1/4in thick carbon steel 1075 I believe. So it can happen even with light pressure if ther is already a defect in the structure of the metal. Having said that, I have purchased over 14 kizer folders because most of the time the fit and finish is perfect and the value is still undeniable. I’m in this drop as well.
Mar 31, 2018
Omniseed
1972
Mar 31, 2018
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Swayne$30 for a replacement blade is a totally fair price, $5 cheaper than a replacement Benchmade blade and that's a company renowned for their excellent warranty practices, to the point that people are willing to tolerate their pricing that is consistently $40-60 above their perceived fair value just for the warranty.
VG10 is chippier and not as tough as S35VN, but I think they are usually run at fairly similar hardness. It's definitely not a good steel for a chopper that may take a hit, it's more of a vegetable knife steel, it's a decent enough general purpose steel but it shines at being a good modestly priced steel for cutting soft materials. It's an older recipe and not as well tailored for folding knives as some of the newer alloys.
I also wasn't picking on you, until you got sensitive about my reminder that the tip of a hardened steel blade using a modern high-hardness steel designed for a folding knife rather than a steel-on-steel tool isn't going to tolerate a steel screw very well.
It's no flaw of Kizer's, people pop the tips off their PM2 all the time. it's not remotely unique to see a folding knife suffer serious damage when they encounter hard objects. Knives lose their tips to wood all the time, I don't see why the screw you ran your Kizer into should be held blameless in your experience.
I don't work for them either, I just like Kizer and think they mostly do a great job. I've had six or seven of them and I don't think your comments are very reasonable based on my experience with those and other knives. This is an enthusiast's forum as much as it is a retail site, and we don't let people disparage decent businesses just because their expectation is divergent from reality. I'm not going to leave your comments unchallenged because I don't believe your experience is indicative of poor workmanship or design on Kizer's part, and I don't want other users to think that they have to be suspicious of Kizer's ability to build a real knife instead of a decent-looking Knife-Like Object.
I've used my hollow-ground Velox2 as a work knife for months while working in light construction, and not only has it never broken, it still has a decently sharp factory edge without any chips or rolls. That's because I mainly used it to pop packaging materials open and occasionally trim up and smooth out a hole that the drill press blew out and left ragged. It cut plastic, cedar, and the occasional shrub and served me well the whole time.
Any bladed tool is an inherently consumable item because of the nature of edges and the way they are nullified by use. Blades and the steels used for them are a bloc of compromises between hardness to allow them to maintain an edge and toughness to allow them to shrug off impacts with other hard objects and other destructive forces.
A good pocketknife is always going to compromise heavily in favor of hardness and edge retention for cutting generally softer materials, because that's what they are designed for. It leaves them especially prone to suffering damage when they hit steel or stone, as you discovered the hard way. VG-10 is one of the earlier high-carbon stainless steels, and it acts like it. It's a little bit quirky, it's a fine steel that does what it should, but it doesn't have any special claim to fame as a folding knife steel. It works best in the kitchen, especially if it won't be used to crack tough bones. Outside of that it's a very workable around town steel, but it is not your huckleberry for metalwork and it's kind of a bad choice for wood too.
Mar 31, 2018
Swayne
53
Mar 31, 2018
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OmniseedI just don't understand why anyone would bother getting a Kizer at all. I've put my Kershaw blades through much rougher treatment and had no problem with them breaking. Why pay more? I got a Kizer expecting a step up and actually got a step down.
I too understand this is a community which is why I bothered to post anything in the first place. People are going to do what they want anyway, but if all they see are people who write paragraph upon paragraph of praise and dogmatic apologetics for a company they apparently don't work for, they're not getting the full picture. I can say, "Your results may vary," but that's kind of a given, isn't it? And it's not being "sensitive" when I defend myself against accusations of violently stabbing a screw, when the reality as I've said is that my knife lightly knicked a screw and the tip crumbled off like it was a piece of overcooked bacon.
Mar 31, 2018
Osifer
8
Jul 17, 2018
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SwayneI own several Kizer knives, folders and fixed blades and I got in on the T2 drop. I am thoroughly satisfied with them, fit and finish is better than many of the US brands. Kershaw, CRKT and budget brands cant compete with Chinese companies like Kizer.
If you want to compare, have a look at some of the other VG10 knives out there.
Oh and Kizer has great customer service as well. I have a Gemini Kizer folder, when I recieved it the flipping action wasn't smooth. Kizer sent me a new one at no cost immediately.
Jul 17, 2018
Swayne
53
Jul 17, 2018
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OsiferMaybe their policy has changed over time? They weren't helpful and certainly weren't willing to do anything at no cost when I contacted them.
Jul 17, 2018
Osifer
8
Jul 17, 2018
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SwayneWendy from Kizer customer service was great to deal with. In November of 2017 was when I had to contact them for assistance.
Jul 17, 2018
Swayne
53
Jul 18, 2018
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OsiferI also talked to Wendy, but in March of this year. Must not be a big company. Anyway, I wrote her and asked for an explanation of the double standard. If I hear anything I'll pass it along.
Jul 18, 2018
hoffman
72
Jul 19, 2018
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SwayneStrange. I have a Kizer knife. The craftsmanship is superb with a lifetime warranty
Jul 19, 2018
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