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Alidan
30
Jan 26, 2017
To be 100% honest, I would never consider earbuds as a headphone type I would spend over 20$ on, and after getting monks a few weeks back, hard to justify above 5$ as these will never have good bass, they are broken by design.
After getting some kz3 iems, I would honestly be hardpressed to recommend monks, as for 5$ more you trade off a minimal amount of treble and mid for decent bass, for less then 10$
you want to spend 100$ on portable headphones, iems are the only thing to consider, get a pair of monks for emergencies/backups and get some nice iems for everything else.
for actual headphones, its hard to recommend anything over 200$, as I have been exposed to a shitload of them thanks to my little brother buying everything under the sun because 'headphones are my hobby' When I have properly amped up 1000$ flagships on my head, and all I can say is 'yea, they are the best, but 800$ more then mine good but they are better'
In all honesty, Im looking at the Monolith M1060 Planar Headphones from monoprice right now as depending on what they put out, it could very well be the definitive headphone for that price range, can't wait till people I trust get their hands on it as i am looking for something that can handle bass a bit better and these look to be across the board better then what I have.
SlowCousinPete
177
Jan 27, 2017
AlidanYou don't get to say earbuds inherently suck, when the best one you've tried costs $5. Try listening to a Sennheiser MX985, then tell me "your only option is IEMs!" LOL. The MX985 is legit Hi-fi.
Now if you PREFER canalphones, that's great too, but is that a reason to bash an entire product category that you have limited experience with?
Alidan
30
Jan 27, 2017
SlowCousinPeteAll of them have the same inherent problems, they can get good treble, they can get good mids but they will never get good bass, any design that would get good bass from earbuds would at the very best make them a hybrid and closer to iems then earbuds. I also never said that 5$ ones were the best I ever used. Had some family with money to spend that decided over ears were inconvenient and earbuds were the only option, they weren't good but spent a good chunk of change on them... they weren't much better than the nintendo earbuds. Fast forward to now where I can look people who know what they are saying up, there isn't a single pair of earbuds that are not crippled by design. I said get a pair of monks because you expect nothing from them and get significantly better than you ever think they would be for the price, then spend your money on something that is not crippled by basic design.
Varholiaglimp
939
Jan 27, 2017
AlidanAll of them start with the same inherent issue to overcome, but some of them actually do. Audio-Technica made a particularly good version in wood -- the AT-EW9 -- way back in 2004, and a lot has happened since then.
Alidan
30
Jan 28, 2017
VarholiaglimpI have no doubt there are good versions of earbuds, but personal experience along with general consensus of people who know better them me put earbuds at a they are never going to be worth anything they are emergency backup devices you stow away just in case, don't spend much on them. Monks just happen to hit the good at everything, especially for the price mark the best right now. But they don't compare to even mildly more expensive iems, just knowing what the sub 100$ and over 100$ jump was for headphones, I don't know where that same jump happens for iems, but given what I got out of 7$ iems, it may not even be that 100$ mark that gets you something great.
SlowCousinPete
177
Jan 30, 2017
AlidanThey will never get good bass? I just mentioned the Sennheiser MX985 which has WORLD CLASS BASS down to 16hz! With equal mids & highs too (up to 23khz)! But you don't care, so why are you still here? You're not getting any less wrong you know.
I get it. You already have an opinion, and defending it no matter what is more important to you than being open minded and learning something new.
I wish people like you would just keep their thoughts to themselves, . If you insist on being ignorant fine, but why do you insist on spreading your ignorance? Do you hate other people? Seriously why?
Varholiaglimp
939
Jan 30, 2017
AlidanI hope you'll take this as an invitation to hone your thoughts and not as negative criticism. I take issue with the conflation of multiple ideas in the argument you seem to be making: "[P]ersonal experience along with general consensus of people who know better them me put earbuds at a they are never going to be worth anything. . . ."
First, the KDE-250s aren't earbuds; they're hybrid clip-ons with earbud features. There's a difference between earbuds and clip-ons in sound, principles of efficiency and construction, and technical obstacles to overcome. There are even half-IEM/earbud hybrids like the Phiaton PS-210s. All must be auditioned to be judged.
Second, it's a mistake to use vague consensus to bolster empirical statements; the second is valid and the first is neither valid nor needed. No one is going to fault you for offering your personal impressions of earbuds or on-ears. I appreciate your humility, but alluding to "those who know" makes you sound like someone who doesn't. Better to cite a specific review with a link, but I doubt you'll find one because most technical reviewers aren't going to make sweeping statements about entire categories of headphones being useless. Fair to say that, in my fifteen years as a head-fi member, I've encountered innumerable reviews, opinions and explications. The ones I've respected talked about individual headphone models and the degree to which they achieved excellence in their class, not the ways in which all headphones of a particular type fail to be worthwhile. Just when I think I've understood how far a particular kind of headphone can go, a new model emerges, or I try one with which I was unfamiliar, that causes me to have to reevaluate my assumptions. Surprises like those are part of what makes this hobby exciting: not a particular headphone style, but the technical/aesthetic strengths of a particular model.
Third, no one who has studied how masterpieces are created would ever assume that a particular area of exploration will "never amount to anything." In his own time, Bach was considered to be a clunky old-fashioned composer who played organ really well. What's changed between now and then is not the quality of the music but our ability to understand it outside the limitations of time and fashion. As with the music, so with our means of listening to it.
The current need for extra bass is partly a response to the noisiness of the technology around us -- which can diminish bass presence in all but the most quiet surroundings -- developments in technology that exaggerate those frequencies sonically and viscerally in tandem with current musical styles, compensation for tinnitus, etc., etc. People who rail against extra bass also might be reacting to a trend in a particular time. All of our certainty and imagined objectivity might be colored with concerns that ultimately will become dated.
Those who would dismiss one of two headphones with different signatures on the basis of fashion effectively are saying that Couperin is better than Bach. But deeming all rococo music to be better than all baroque music is irrelevant to individual examples of either style.
A fairer approach might be to evaluate flat and bassy headphones on their own terms: on how well they achieve what their creators intended, and whether the scope of the intention and achievement are sufficient to engage us.
Alidan
30
Jan 30, 2017
SlowCousinPeteHonestly want to say you have no idea what that even means. Here let's give an example. My usual headphones are hd598's. Got them because my 555's were out of warranty, sennheiser said they fixed the plastic cracking issue, it was around christmas and I loved the color. the frequency response on them from sennheiser says 12 - 38500 Hz
little brother decided to get some fostex recently, specifically a pair of T50RPmk3 now, their frequency response is 15 Hz to 35 kHz.
on paper my sennheiser has better bass and better highs, when in reality, they fostex beat the hell out of them there mercesly.
On paper my sennheiser also looks to have better highs, He doesn't have his good dac by me but the sound his fostex makes when it hits a high note is piercing, properly driven and eqed down a bit, that would again kick my headphones ass.
The different designs and parts offer vastly different results. Ill give the sennheiser earbuds the benefit of the doubt, you can hear bass with them, the bass is there, but by design the bass is just not there, again, i'm assuming its like the monks I have, just higher quality, you can hear the bass, you know the bass is there, but there is no bass because the design doesn't allow there to be bass. The kz zs3 I have, just put them in, same song I used on monk, and my 598's the bass is better because the design is different. Overall I like over ear more than iem, and the mix of mids highs and bass is better on the sennheiser, but if all I cared about was bass, those iems would beat my over ears, and these are iems i beleive that aren't known for their bass.
Had the iems be a higher quality one, something around 100~ $ they would likely be better to such a large extent that I would use them over the 598's for normal listening.
bugeyed
77
Jan 31, 2017
AlidanNot sure I'd buy the Monolith M1060 unless you have experience wit the brand. They look to be a knock off of the Hifiman HE-400i or similar. HE-400i are cheaper. kev
Alidan
30
Jan 31, 2017
bugeyedYea, brand alone, I like them and everything I have gotten so far. If all else is equal, I'd go with them as I like the looks more os than the he-400i, but I'm probably looking a good 2 years down to road or more if my current go to's break, or on the off chance they are simply that much better than what I have.
Alidan
30
Feb 1, 2017
Oh I get what you mean, my little brother went on a headphone buying spree, and if they cost 200$ to about 1000$ he bought them, granted ebay prices, but he still bought them. The only real area my 598's are lacking is bass that has a punch. doing tests to see what range I can hear sound in, still puts me above average, knowing sennheiser isn't the best for the top range, and having ones on my head that are suppose to be the best in that range, there is VERY little difference, so I stopped looking at that area, and started looking more at the bass. His fastex are fantastic for bass, but I don't have an amp that can properly drive then, along with when using his amp they were a very piercing high end to the point that just wasn't comfortable. His hifiman's he got that were 1000$ ones, they were better than what I have in all regards, but the price he paid for them was not better by enough to ever justify it.
I'm looking at these knowing monoprice as a company, they put out things that I have gotten that would have costed more if I had gotten them elsewhere while performing as good or better than an alternative product. This has me at least interested in their headphones and I'm watching for reviews from people who have more experience then I do to trickel in, possibly when my brother inevitably spends some money on a pair for himself. When compared to the hifiman you said, the he-400i if everything is the same, as in both headphones are equal and the only difference was how they look, I would be willing to go monoprice because I much prefer how it looks and its 50$ more. When I got my 598's I was looking at the 558's, but 2 things made me go 598. First, they acknowledged a cracking problem, were actively replacing everyone that was cracked, and for all new ones used a different blend of or just different plastic. It's been 2 or 3 years now, and they look like new beside the earpads and headband that I replaced recently. And 2 being the look, but I'm apparently weird in that way where I like the look of noctua fans for pc, not just begrudgingly use them because they are the best performing fans on the market.
As for why keep up now when a purchase is a long time down the line baring outstanding performance... Have you ever bought something, didn't need a new one, then one day down the line it breaks, it's out of warranty, you need a new one right now, but its been years and you need to sift through a crap ton if new advancements and new models? Had it happen twice to me on computers, I didn't know much about power supplies, had one blow up in my case, that was a nerve wreaking 2 days thinking my entire computer was gone as the powersupply took everything with it. Thankfully the cheap piece of crap had either a fuse or some kind of breaker inside to cut all power to the computer before it blew and nothing was damaged. Now I know there are really only 3 brands that are worth a damn, corsair as they use seasonic designs, seasonic, and superflower as superflower are I believe the best quality, but they don't make many low end models that aren't rebranded for other companies. The second was the 1.5tb hdds, I bought one because I was doing a fresh format and I always get a new one so I can't lose old data when I format, so I went to best buy, saw 1.5tb, and saw 140$... ok, that's my price range. two months later my pc died due to age, so I got another 1.5tb, this time for 90$ as it was clearance. So, one drive just started having a crap ton of errors and the boot was click of deathing, thankfully no data loss, was able to mirror it before it gave up the ghost. Replace them with rma drives, one is ok, the other literally vibrated itself to death. and a few months back the other stopped working completely. I now know that every company has horrific 1.5tb drives, but seagate, the brand I bought had a 50%+ fail rate on the drives. So I keep up with company failure rates, and seagate is still one of the best especially for high capacity drives, with hitachi leading the pack but also commanding a larger price. Had crap like this happen to me allot where something that I require breaks and I need to get a new one, but not knowing anything about it screwed me. So now I make a point to keep up with everything I use. And as I learned a LONG time ago, when it comes to audio, nothing really changes, a newer model does not make the old one worthless, but because of the newer model people get rid of fantastic equipment for very low prices. If I had to choose right now what to get, I would likely go with an ebay hd650, possibly a hd700 if I could find it for 300 or less, and order some replacement pads for it because I know the sennheiser style and know it would be both an upgrade for me, and fit very comfortably, but that monoprice has a 106 mm driver, and thats bigger than the entire can of my hd598's so its possibly an ever more comfortable wear for me, as I disqualify anything that touches my ears instantly from useable, I have never been able to find that comfortable.
Alidan" i'm assuming its like the monks I have, just higher quality"
Right, just like how your HD598 is like the cheepie headphobes everyone gets for free on an airline flight, just higher quality! And how a Ferrari is like a Honda Civic, just higher quality!
The Navy's nuclear-powered aircraft carriers are like wooden rowboats, just higher quality! Hahahhahaaha! This is kinda fun, anybody else can feel free to chime in with examples too.
Seriously, why on earth would anybody make that assumption? Are you brain-damaged? It's wrong, and frankly it's a spectacularly stupid thing to think! I just don't even know what else I can say here, if my point hasn't been made yet, it never will be.
"the bass is there, but by design the bass is just not there,"
This is another fun sentence, but I'm not going to comment further, just going to leave this here to highlight it in case anybody missed it.
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