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Showing 1 of 51 conversations about:
radio_killah
85
Nov 5, 2014
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So after reading all that.. I am still confused on whether or not this is worth it.
AlexPk
7197
Community
Nov 6, 2014
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radio_killahIf you plan on getting into this as a hobby pretty seriously and are more of a 'BIFL on the first time' mentality, it's definitely worth it. I have to put together most of the little electronic projects around here and working with this was a dream compared to whatever kit I have at home.
yami759
23
Nov 6, 2014
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radio_killahI personally would not recommend this. These seem to be from a little-known manufacturer, and is just a fixed temperature, plug-into-the-wall simple iron. Those are... ok... but for the price that you would be paying, you could easily step up to something like the Hakko 888D, a very, very good, variable temperature iron from an extremely well known manufacturer for under $100. Yes, I know this kit includes some tips, tweezers, a desoldering tool, and a but of solder, but for the $50, you could easily get all those, and you are getting that huge upgrade of an iron. If you don't need that kind of iron (though if you are serious about soldering, I'd highly recommend it), I guess you could get a cheapo plug-into-the-wall, like the Weller SP23LK. You won't get nearly as good results, but I guess it's fine if you just want to tinker around and see if you like it (it's what I used when I was starting out).
jacobolus
41
Nov 6, 2014
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yami759This iron is better (safer, easier to use, more durable) than the Hakko 888-D for doing hobby projects with leaded solder. If you have needs that go beyond what you can do with the iron in this kit, I would recommend investing a few hundred dollars in some more professional tools, but for starting out this is really great gear.
Speaking as someone who has been using a Hakko 888-D for about a year and a half, if this kit had existed when I started I would have gotten this instead of the Hakko.
Edsyn is absolutely not a “little-known manufacturer”.
Speaking as someone who has been using a Hakko 888-D for about a year and a half, if this kit had existed when I started I would have gotten this instead of the Hakko.
Edsyn is absolutely not a “little-known manufacturer”.
ming.geekhackers.org
62
Nov 7, 2014
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AlexPkre: "BIFL the first time"
there are definitely tools that i cut massive corners on in my first try, even when fairly educated in the subtleties of said tools. for example, i have bought and completely destroyed a large number of _large gauge_ drill bits. these are unlikely to shatter or otherwise come apart and injure you. in the worst case, you overheat them, destroy the thin uneven coating on them, and then dull the thing into a lollipop. this is also known as "fail stop" error behavior.
for those who are questioning the wisdom of buying a high quality iron as a "first soldering tool", remember that the heater on a soldering iron must hit at least 375-400C when run to equilibrium in air. Since we're in the US, let's just call that 752F.
For reference, a third degree burn of the skin (damage all the way through the dermal stack) takes about 5 seconds at 160F. 5 full seconds at 752F will burn your skin clean off. this may or may not be referred to as "fail HOLY CRAP MASSIVE INJURY" error behavior.
Further, pretty much every common household material will burn into carbon pretty much immediately at that temperature, and more than momentary exposure will cause most materials to burst into flames.
In fact, total irony here: insulating the plastic of the soldering pen from the heater is incredibly important and a major reason why a fully stainless steel sheathed heater is so important. the plastic that the pen handle is made of would light on fire (in addition to burning your skin off) if it reached anywhere near the temperature of the heater.
I could not, in any way, ever endorse the sale of a substandard soldering tool. It just so happens that the difference in cost is measured in the 10s of dollars here, but even if it were 1000, I would be fighting to bring that cost as low as humanly possible for people to safely learn about electronics.
there are definitely tools that i cut massive corners on in my first try, even when fairly educated in the subtleties of said tools. for example, i have bought and completely destroyed a large number of _large gauge_ drill bits. these are unlikely to shatter or otherwise come apart and injure you. in the worst case, you overheat them, destroy the thin uneven coating on them, and then dull the thing into a lollipop. this is also known as "fail stop" error behavior.
for those who are questioning the wisdom of buying a high quality iron as a "first soldering tool", remember that the heater on a soldering iron must hit at least 375-400C when run to equilibrium in air. Since we're in the US, let's just call that 752F.
For reference, a third degree burn of the skin (damage all the way through the dermal stack) takes about 5 seconds at 160F. 5 full seconds at 752F will burn your skin clean off. this may or may not be referred to as "fail HOLY CRAP MASSIVE INJURY" error behavior.
Further, pretty much every common household material will burn into carbon pretty much immediately at that temperature, and more than momentary exposure will cause most materials to burst into flames.
In fact, total irony here: insulating the plastic of the soldering pen from the heater is incredibly important and a major reason why a fully stainless steel sheathed heater is so important. the plastic that the pen handle is made of would light on fire (in addition to burning your skin off) if it reached anywhere near the temperature of the heater.
I could not, in any way, ever endorse the sale of a substandard soldering tool. It just so happens that the difference in cost is measured in the 10s of dollars here, but even if it were 1000, I would be fighting to bring that cost as low as humanly possible for people to safely learn about electronics.
testuser
22
Nov 7, 2014
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ming.geekhackers.orgI really wouldn't consider this specific iron as a high-end/BIFL item. Wouldn't you, at minimum, want something out of your "high-end/BIFL" iron such as adjustable temperature for lead-free or more precision work? Raise it a little bit for large thermal mass soldering? Or lower the temp so you don't potentially 'pop-corn' your micros/smd?
You speak of the quality but ironically I can't even seem to find any reviews online regarding this iron. For example, with the aforementioned Yihua 936, being very cheap, has made it highly scrutinized. Finding quality written and video reviews from multiple professional ee's (not just internet randoms) is quite easy and the consensus, aside from a few non-life threatening issues, has been that it's perfectly safe.
Sure, 10's of dollars isn't a lot, but if you're only going to be bought for one purpose (I see mention of assembling the previous drop keyboard) then what's the point in spending the extra money? So you can have a "BIFL" soldering iron collecting dust? Wouldn't you want something cheaper?
Anyhow, I can't even read your posts anymore with a straight face. Outside of it sounding like you have an ulterior motive to push these things down everyone's throat (how much of a cut is massdrop paying you to sell these?), they seem condescending and contain obscure anecdotes.
You speak of the quality but ironically I can't even seem to find any reviews online regarding this iron. For example, with the aforementioned Yihua 936, being very cheap, has made it highly scrutinized. Finding quality written and video reviews from multiple professional ee's (not just internet randoms) is quite easy and the consensus, aside from a few non-life threatening issues, has been that it's perfectly safe.
Sure, 10's of dollars isn't a lot, but if you're only going to be bought for one purpose (I see mention of assembling the previous drop keyboard) then what's the point in spending the extra money? So you can have a "BIFL" soldering iron collecting dust? Wouldn't you want something cheaper?
Anyhow, I can't even read your posts anymore with a straight face. Outside of it sounding like you have an ulterior motive to push these things down everyone's throat (how much of a cut is massdrop paying you to sell these?), they seem condescending and contain obscure anecdotes.
tjcaustin
53
Nov 8, 2014
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testuserWhy would you want to lower the temp of the iron under the flow temp of the solder you're using?
If the part in question can't handle being soldered in place at a temp that the solder is liquid at, how is it supposed to stand being subjected to a slightly lower temp for a longer period of time for that solder to melt and join the pieces together?
I'm also curious (not really) as to what makes a "professional EE posting reviews online" different from "internet random EE posting reviews online"? Like is there a stamp or a hand motion? Reviews like those crowed about here (and really any non-long term) are inherently flawed because the reviewed item isn't going to be subjected to real strain for any period of time that wouldn't have been done in the QA process before a reviewer got his mitts on it. And for the items reviews that can't be subjected to a basic review process, well, that's why it's crap gear at that point.
I think you're projecting if you read anything more than education and patience in ming's posts.
If the part in question can't handle being soldered in place at a temp that the solder is liquid at, how is it supposed to stand being subjected to a slightly lower temp for a longer period of time for that solder to melt and join the pieces together?
I'm also curious (not really) as to what makes a "professional EE posting reviews online" different from "internet random EE posting reviews online"? Like is there a stamp or a hand motion? Reviews like those crowed about here (and really any non-long term) are inherently flawed because the reviewed item isn't going to be subjected to real strain for any period of time that wouldn't have been done in the QA process before a reviewer got his mitts on it. And for the items reviews that can't be subjected to a basic review process, well, that's why it's crap gear at that point.
I think you're projecting if you read anything more than education and patience in ming's posts.
testuser
22
Nov 9, 2014
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tjcaustinYou know I had a really lengthy post ready to go but I'll keep it simple:
The fact you're questioning what you are proves you're one of the internet randoms that I'm not going to trust or take their opinion. Thank you, but I'll form my own through my own research - which I suggest EVERYONE do before buying something, especially for a new hobby. I will get this information from credible sources including (but not limited to) the ones that I cited, who at least one of them as earned it through having 600+ videos on youtube regarding ee hardware, design, etc. and owns one of the largest EE communities online. Not from people in this thread saying, "This a great deal. Let me tell you a story about my pet cat...".
Anyways I'm done responding to this nonsense. Let the sales figures do the talking.
The fact you're questioning what you are proves you're one of the internet randoms that I'm not going to trust or take their opinion. Thank you, but I'll form my own through my own research - which I suggest EVERYONE do before buying something, especially for a new hobby. I will get this information from credible sources including (but not limited to) the ones that I cited, who at least one of them as earned it through having 600+ videos on youtube regarding ee hardware, design, etc. and owns one of the largest EE communities online. Not from people in this thread saying, "This a great deal. Let me tell you a story about my pet cat...".
Anyways I'm done responding to this nonsense. Let the sales figures do the talking.
sprk1
232
Nov 9, 2014
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testuserSales figures are pointless when prospects are being swayed away from this kit because of people complaining about the price of a product that they either a) don't know about (Edysn is a little known manufacturer?), b) think is too expensive because RadioShack sells cheaper irons, or c) wouldn't buy in the first place because they just want to solder a keyboard or are in any case just not the target audience for this drop.
The only nonesense in this discussion is the amount of negativity and fearmongering being spouted by people that wouldn't have bought the kit in the first place towards what is mostly a labor of love.
Anyway, I'll avoid annoying you with a story since you're all about the Youtube videos and are bored by such endeavors.
The only nonesense in this discussion is the amount of negativity and fearmongering being spouted by people that wouldn't have bought the kit in the first place towards what is mostly a labor of love.
Anyway, I'll avoid annoying you with a story since you're all about the Youtube videos and are bored by such endeavors.
darkfeline
92
Nov 9, 2014
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sprk1Being a labor of love doesn't stop something from being bad. It doesn't stop the creator from thinking their work is perfect (perhaps even justifiably) when it is awful (for reasons the creator cannot comprehend; i.e., everyone is different). Not attacking anyone, just stating a fact.
I think the only thing anyone can take from this awful thread of discussion is to do your own research, and be prepared to make mistakes, whether you decide to go with this drop or to buy your own set separately.
I think the only thing anyone can take from this awful thread of discussion is to do your own research, and be prepared to make mistakes, whether you decide to go with this drop or to buy your own set separately.
tjcaustin
53
Nov 9, 2014
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testuserSo now it's "my research is better than your's"?
Cool story, bro. Trust people that might have clear or clouded financial gain to be had by telling you to go a certain route.
I don't know why you think you're responding to nonsense when you're a chief contributor *to* the nonsense. If anything, you should say "I'm done giving you nonsense to respond to"
Cool story, bro. Trust people that might have clear or clouded financial gain to be had by telling you to go a certain route.
I don't know why you think you're responding to nonsense when you're a chief contributor *to* the nonsense. If anything, you should say "I'm done giving you nonsense to respond to"
sprk1
232
Nov 11, 2014
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darkfelineI agree with you completely. I mentioned the "labor of love" comment in response to the comments stating that this kit's price is solely in the spirit of making a profit, which is not the case with ming's kits either via massdrop or directly via geekhack. That being said, while I don't think ming believes his work is perfect, it is definitely not awful or overpriced – although it may very well be prohibitive price wise.
In any case, I think this drop has been completely taken over by negativity which saddens me as some people have been put off getting great tools at a valid price point. C'est la vie I guess.
In any case, I think this drop has been completely taken over by negativity which saddens me as some people have been put off getting great tools at a valid price point. C'est la vie I guess.
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