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MaxwellDemonic
838
Jul 31, 2018
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I'm getting the feel this is another "priced by location" piece. Teflon washers on anything above $40 is absurd.
Jul 31, 2018
Cortcase
2
Aug 2, 2018
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MaxwellDemonicThat's what I thought, and it IS my one complaint about the knife, but I've had mine for over a year now and I couldn't be happier with it. I'm in construction and use it every day for heavy cutting. The D2 is superb and after a year of hard use the anodizing barely has a speck worn off. The action and lock up are perfect and there is absolutely no nlade play in any direction.
All that to say, don't let tg the Teflon Washers foold you. This is one of the best value knives on the market right now, in my opinion.
Aug 2, 2018
MaxwellDemonic
838
Aug 2, 2018
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CortcaseI have to disagree, there are literally dozens of Kizer models on the market for half the price, in comparable or better steel with PB washers or metal-caged ceramic bearings. Hell Spyderco makes the Delica, which is one of the best back-lock knives on the market for $20 less.
D2 is a good steel and is pretty much on par with VG-10. If this were in XHP / S30V / S35VN, I might be able to justify the cost. As it stands D2, G10 and, Teflon washers do not equate that kind of cost (for me anyway).
As an aside, WE knives also tried to charge $100 for a G10 flipper in VG-10, there were few takers for that because again, materially it didn't add up.
Aug 2, 2018
Cortcase
2
Aug 3, 2018
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MaxwellDemonicI disagree that D2 and VG-10 are on par. In my experience, D2 trumps VG-10 in every reguard except ease of sharpening. But that's neither here nor there.
In reguard to Keizer or WE, I suppose you can aregue that they bring higher value, but as a rule I don't even look at Chinese made knives (mostly on principal.) Of the ones I have seen or used, the steel has never been on par with that of an established, respected knife maker. I suspect this is due to their heat treat more than anything else which, done properly, can be a time consuming and costly process.
Still, I'm somewhat biased in this reguard as I always at least try to not buy things from China if I can without too much undue inconvenience or expense. We know for a fact that many, if not most of the products out of China are made with sub par material using sub par designs, by people working under conditions which equate to modern day slavery. I'm not saying you're a bad person if you buy Chinese or that there's no way a Chinese company can make world class knives, I'm just not about putting my money in that industry, personal choice.
Again, I do agree with you that the teflon washers are are a let down, but I also know from experience that they don't detrimentally affect the knive's performance and have stood a reasonable test of time and use in my hands.
I think much of the price is due to the body being milled out of a single block of aluminum. The design itself requires a fair amount of material waist which is not cheep.
I have more to say but I suppose I've written enough. In my opinion it's a fantastic knife and I'd trust it with my life. But to each his own.
Aug 3, 2018
MaxwellDemonic
838
Aug 3, 2018
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CortcaseSimply put, cutting tests performed on with similarly hardened VG-10 and D2 are, as I said, on par. The metallurgical analysis show them to be extremely similar in alloy composition. Also VG-10 is exclusively sourced from Japan. If you get a VG-10 knife from China, the steel was produced in Japan (same thing for D2, although D2 is American in origin). As you said as well, heat-treatment is critical in making a steel worth using. Luckily most Chinese companies that produce quality mid-tech knives (Bestech, Kizer, WE, etc.) have gotten to the point where their heat-treatments are on par with American companies. The crappier steels you'll find used in Chinese knife making (and funnily enough in cheaper US brands) are your xCRs. The higher end CR steels aren't absolutely awful, but anything 8 and below is pretty much shite.
As far as disliking Chinese manufacturing on "principle"... well there are very few polite things I can say in response. I'll say the M390 Rike in my pocket completely disagrees with your assumptions (as it is superbly finished and in one of the best steels on the market). One can't say an American made Kershaw in 8Cr-lol is ever comparable to anything in the Rike, WE, or Reate lines. We can also talk about companies like Spyderco, where their Colorado facility (in Golden) is producing knives that are significantly lower quality than their Taichung facility. Spyderco is an American company and their foreign manufacturing is significantly better than their US counterparts.
Teflon washers cannot be adequately compared to properly polished Phosphor Bronze. It absolutely affects the action in non-assisted blades. If this blade were assisted, I'd care less about the washer composition. I'd still not buy it due to my dislike for assists (which for the most part are there because the manufacturing tolerances are out of line to make a good action).
In the end what you're paying for in this knife comes from the word "Italy" being engraving on the blade. Feel free to pay more if it makes you happy, I'm not the arbiter of what anyone should or shouldn't like, but I will happily point our fallacious arguments when it comes to materials and jingoism.
Aug 3, 2018
ulven
25
Aug 4, 2018
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MaxwellDemonicit's not g10 also i think a lot of the price comes from it being an integral wich is more complex too machine
Aug 4, 2018
MaxwellDemonic
838
Aug 4, 2018
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ulvenI meant to go back and change that in my initial estimate. It's still way over priced for milled aluminum.
Aug 4, 2018
ulven
25
Aug 4, 2018
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MaxwellDemonicif you think so thats fine personally i am ok with the prize and bought it although i agree that i'd rather have seen this on washers
Aug 4, 2018
Cdoyle
400
Jan 5, 2019
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CortcaseI agree. While i really like vg10 and think its the best performing budget steel, D2 is much better and i would choose it over the same knife in vg10 Everytime. Definitely would not pay $100 for a vg10 knife either. Maybe $65 tops like a delica or endura.
(Edited)
Jan 5, 2019
Wayoftread
68
Jan 10, 2019
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MaxwellDemonicTeflon washers get a bad rap. Better than bearing because grit won’t get in as easy and better than metal washers because they can be run dry.
Jan 10, 2019
Cdoyle
400
Jan 10, 2019
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WayoftreadIf your a back woodsman then yes
Jan 10, 2019
MaxwellDemonic
838
Jan 11, 2019
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WayoftreadBoth things that can be solved with a bottle of lube and 10 minutes of disassembly. If I can get a much much better action for weeks and have to spend a little time on maintenance, I'll take that over a middling maintenance free action any day. Not to mention teflon degrades over time, ceramic bearings don't.
Jan 11, 2019
Wayoftread
68
Jan 11, 2019
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MaxwellDemonicNo doubt better action with bearings. And ceramic better than steel bearings. But in dusty environments like the warehouse I work in lube attract the dust like crazy. Plus bearing are the easy cheap way out to get good action for a lot of companies. Got good action and washers you have a well made knife with great tolerances.
Jan 11, 2019
ulven
25
Jan 12, 2019
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MaxwellDemonici have too dissasemble my bearing knives weekly otherwise they feel like they are running on sandpaper
Jan 12, 2019
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