LKS MH-DA004 Dual ES9038pro DAC Discussions | Drop

Oct 30, 2018

Reading all the messages in this treat, i do realice that apparently, even people searching for a good DAC, that as gone thought the effort of wide and carefully technical research, is having trouble deciding what to get, and Massdrop (to my humble knowledge )is not providing some clear options on the USD1000 prices, ( i dont even know if money regarding DACS is really a parameter)... heck .. i do ( we do ) need some help... ( and yes i know about chord, ifi IDSD BL... Topping dxx, Audio GD, and a lot of schiit... . I imagine my AAA amp arriving in february looking at my eyes in tears .... whyyyyy goddd whyyy, you had 6 months to get something ¡¡¡¡ ..... Sooomethingggg........ (absence of sound on the back)

Oct 31, 2018

CollectiveMindWhat did any of that even mean? Reading all the messages in this treat, i do realice that apparently, even people searching for a good DAC, that as gone thought the effort of wide and carefully technical research, is having trouble deciding what to get, and Massdrop (to my humble knowledge )is not providing some clear options on the USD1000 prices, ( i dont even know if money regarding DACS is really a parameter)... heck .. i do ( we do ) need some help... ( and yes i know about chord, ifi IDSD BL... Topping dxx, Audio GD, and a lot of schiit... .

I imagine my AAA amp arriving in february looking at my eyes in tears .... whyyyyy goddd whyyy, you had 6 months to get something ¡¡¡¡ ..... Sooomethingggg........ (absence of sound on the back)

Oct 31, 2018

RockyMountainsEasy, even if you do a carefull technical research focused on what dac to get from that point of view, read a ton of papers, coments and reviews, it is a nightmare to evalúate properly whats availiable to be buyed in the 200 to 1000 usd dollar price range. And on that line of thinking, i dont see on massdrop any drop that target this price range with an atractive product..or a good match to pair with my soon to arrive THX AAA Amplifier, ( MD was supposed to be developing a matchin DAC for the, AAA amplifer i am ready to spend some money, but i dont find any good option yet ) .. Going further on the matter and to prove my point, I do provide some información that is common knowledge about some good matching DAC óptions from different companies... (excludding topping you can not get any products from them on massdrop.) .... So , i do ask for help, to anyone who has done the research and ¨homework¨ and can provide some advice or insight about what to get on Massdrop (or not) that can match the AAA amplifier quality .. i hope my words make sense this time for you ...

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Oct 31, 2018

CollectiveMindThe matching Massdrop DAC that you are alluding to was the Airist, which had some associated controversy for having stolen the design for the R2R board from someone else. It's already dropped and is in production. There are a slew of well regarded DACs in the price range you mention, it depends on which sources you decide to trust. What is more important is whether you know your own sound preferences- from the way you write, it seems you are kind of new to this, so perhaps you don't know what you're looking for, in which case, recommendations won't help anyway. It also depends on what the rest of your gear is. And of course, on whether your hearing is good enough to even tell the differences between DACs in the first place. Anyone who recommends a certain DAC for the amp that you mention is probably just guessing anyway- has this amp even been delivered yet? You can't trust gear recommendations from people who don't own the gear.

Oct 31, 2018

RockyMountainsThank you for your candid answer Rocky Mountains, About it, and seeking your advice ( and possibly other´s). Point by point, on this message all you need to help me out according to your last message. i hope you can help me choosing a DAC with your experience and knowledge as an ¨oldtimer¨ Headfi entusiast ( or profesional, i cant know ) :).. As to the time i have been involved in this hobby , i would have to pull apart hi fi audio in general to headphone specific. in the first, about 15 years more or less, in the second, just 2 ... as to my equipment, i do own several rigs. My source is always a Mac book pro playing flacs 16 and 24 bit when available. 1 rig : Marantz UD9004 - Krell Processor Surround s1200U + W4S DAC-1v2 + 5 x W4S sx-1000 monoblock + 4 x B&W802 Diamond speakers + 1 x Htm2 + DB1D SUB. 9 transparent cables, and transparent filter. 2 Rig : processor krell hts 7.1 + Krell Theather Amplifier + W4S Dac 2 + 2 x b&W 703 Nautilus. + b@w ase 3000 sub 3 Rig : Ifi IDSD BL + Marantz 2325 + Elex. 4 Rig : XXXX DAC + THX AAA 789 + Elex... ( this is the one i need help with ) .. I do own some other cans .. HD 600,HD650 , AKG 7XX...and a Oppo HA2 SE DAC/Amp. Also serveral IEms : audiofly 1120af, shure 535 SE... Regarding my taste, I love dinamic open and as transparent as possible Sound. i do hate metalic ultra hight wheezing. Regarding my hear capacity, im in my 40´s and the last check was 100, 110s.. so no problem at all... of course that is regarding the audition capacity not the quqlity of it .. i guest we would have to asume an average one. Now you have got all what you need to know accordint to your last post ... :)... would you please be kind and have some advise to me regarding what DAC to pair with the THX AAA 789 with an ELEX HP ?. I have been reading all the post on SBAF and several other boards since the release of the prototypes, so mo re or less i got a picture of the character and sound caracter of the Amp.

jsmiller58

804

Nov 1, 2018

CollectiveMindI would recommend that you pick up the SMSL SU8 DAC. Currently being dropped now. It is inexpensive and Audiosciencereview.com tested it and found very good performance. Topping DX7s is also an option, but you are also paying a premium for an integrated amp you may not use since the789 will be the superior amp.

Nov 1, 2018

CollectiveMindI don't think than any decently regarded DAC has "ultra hight wheezing" so you should be pretty safe with a range of choices. Personally, I'd just wait for Feb when the Airist starts shipping as it will likely turn into a rolling drop with inventory soon afterwards. It's got the perfect form factor to go with the THX amp. In the meantime you could get an SDAC if you need a DAC immediately. It's cheap, it's good (I've got one) and it's small and colour matched with the THX. The usual other recommendations would be the Schiit Modis.

Nov 1, 2018

jsmiller58I am looking right now into it... thank you :)

Nov 1, 2018

RockyMountainsThank you for your direct answer ... ohh my god, now for me it is not only a Dac choice but also a moral decision to make if i go for the Airist.. ( still reading all the post ... it is going to take ages !! ).

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jsmiller58

804

Nov 1, 2018

CollectiveMindi hope it suits your needs! Keep in mind when comparing something like the SU8 and the Airist is what the intention of the designers and design approaches are. The SU8 is about providing as true as possible conversion of the digital bits into the music as it was originally encoded. An R2R DAC like the Airist (as well as many solid state DACs by other vendors) intentionally or not color the sound in some ways - make it warmer or brighter, take away detail to make it musical/smoother, etc. Not saying any of that is bad, you just have to know this when picking your DAC. The SU8 is going to be like the cop from Dragnet... “Just the facts, m’am”

rastus

1391

Nov 1, 2018

CollectiveMindI now have a Denafrips Ares R-2R DAC. I do know that I have never heard anything as alive, as what this DAC helps produce, @<$1K. I did a crap load of reading, everything,,, too much;) Native DSD capability was a must for me; why it’s not an MD/Arist or Soekris etc. If I had more coin to blow, I would get the next up in the line, or totaldac now that I have tasted R-2R... F'n rabbit hole... Ares: https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-ares-r2r-dac Current rig w/Ares: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-focal-elex-headphones/reviews/2225726 My alternate DAC is a Korg DS-DAC-100 / Audiogate (paired player software), all else same.

Nov 1, 2018

jsmiller58Wow, your post help me a lot !!, really appreciated!!..

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Nov 1, 2018

RockyMountainsNow, i m starting to deeply understand your first post , and consecuently beginning to realize that is going to take me a while to even know what i want , since i should try the dacs aimed to retrieve the sound exactly as recorded, ( thank you jsmiller58) and the ones aimed to ¨enhance or provide more susbtance than a simply go thought ej R-2R DACS.. ).. and no way to do that without listening my self ... I got suddenlyy a nice headache, just thinking in future possible steps ... ;) ... one more time, thank you for your advice.. guys

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Nov 1, 2018

CollectiveMindAre you sure that you can hear the differences between DACs? Not trying to be insulting here. Simply that I think a lot of people who talk about this DAC or that DAC being light years better than some other DAC are just exaggerating for impact on the internet. Or are just amplifying what various sites say, often without listening or comparing themselves. DAC differences are very subtle, and are going to be eclipsed by changes in headphones or amps. I can tell the differences between headphones easily, amps take a fair bit more work, and I'm not sure that I can reliably tell the differences between DACs yet- the caveat here being that I have experienced less DACs than headphones/amps so far, and have stuck under $300.

Jan 1, 2019

CollectiveMindYou are not going to hear the difference between DACs and amps unless there is something wrong with them (high output impedance, clipping, line noise etc) or they are purposely designed for distortion (tube amp). The transducer (speaker) is the part of the audio chain with the most variance and where you will actually hear differences for your money. There are $200 DACs that will ABX with an RME all day. You get that stuff for features and aesthetics, not sound.

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Jan 2, 2019

SureSh0tYou are not going to hear the difference between DACs and amps unless there is something wrong with them (high output impedance, clipping, line noise etc) or they are purposely designed for distortion (tube amp). The difference between amps can be significant. Have you done comparisons on a wide range of gear yourself, or are you parroting reddit?

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Jan 2, 2019

RockyMountainsI never said there can't be. The wording of your question portends you don't care what I say regardless of how much gear I've tried, what sites I've been on etc. Think whatever you choose to believe. For anyone else reading, my opinion is this:

If you claim to hear a difference between amps that can't be measured and you haven't ABX'd them, your opinion is probably worthless. This is not a denial that you experience two amps differently, but it probably means it had more to do with you than the pressure wave that reached your ear.
The purpose of most amps is to make something louder and as little else as possible. There are amps that by design will do more than that. There are also amps that try to do either badly. For the most part you're shopping to avoid the mistakes and flaws (high output impedance, failing relays/transistors, poor power supply isolation etc) while meeting your requirements for power and features, unless you are looking for an amp that purposely changes the signal.
Sound is a subjective experience, and the differences between experiences, arguably most of it, happens outside amps and dacs. As someone looking to maximize their enjoyment of sound with finite resources, you will generally be more cost effective experimenting with the part of audio with the most perceptible variance between products, the transducer (headphones, speakers). Along with the listening environment, in the case of speakers.

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Major_Infidel

316

Jan 2, 2019

CollectiveMindI was going crazy like you are. Then I decided to just spend $500 now on a Chord Mojo and wait for something demonstrably better to come out. I’m still waiting. And I’m still enjoying the heck out of the Mojo while I wait.

Jan 2, 2019

CollectiveMindHeads up on this matter ; i decided to wait for the airist as jsmiller58 suggested ( now delayed till May 2019) and in the meanwhile buy two su8 v2 Great advice for anyone from jsmiller58 and a couple of other members, ( rockymountains you rock :) ). I dont see now much of a problem On choosing a Dac now. Got covered on puré sound and some nice Coloration with the adviced choices .

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Jan 2, 2019

Major_InfidelThank you for you reply , I already got a similar unit the Ifi idsd micro bl , measures almost the same as the chord Mojo. But i am looking for a desktop balanced Dac this time since i also have the oppus ha2se. The airist is not balanced i know ).

Jan 2, 2019

SureSh0tthank you for your replay, following your process of thought i asume you have been searching and trying some amp / headphones. amp/speaker. combinations. related to this, what about some advise regarding classe d monoblocks/ speaker pairing ? (W4S sx 1000r)

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Jan 2, 2019

If you claim to hear a difference between amps that can't be measured and you haven't ABX'd them, your opinion is probably worthless. This is not a denial that you experience two amps differently, but it probably means it had more to do with you than the pressure wave that reached your ear.

Have you ever looked into what it would take to set up a fast switched, reliable, and assistant-independent ABX system? It's non-trivial from a hardware and cost perspective. Have you done ABX testing under rigorous conditions? The setup is a pain, it's expensive, and it's impractically time consuming. Or are you just sticking with that line because it happens to be what you read on the internet, and it supports a preference that electronics and audio should be cheap and simple? Why am I even arguing this. There are documented instances out there on reputable sites where people have successfully ABX tested equipment over repeated trials.

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Jan 2, 2019

RockyMountains"Or are you just sticking with that line because it happens to be what you read on the internet, and it supports a preference that electronics and audio should be cheap and simple?" What about audio electronics is not cheap and simple in comparison to almost every other domain of electronics? Your framing suggests you don't know much about Audio vs RF circuits, SoC or even some basic test equipment. Would you tell me the price of a McIntosh has more to do with it's cost to manufacture than marketing/branding + demand? What a joke. An EE friend of mine had an ABX setup for some amps as part of an undergrad project. All you need is a splitter to output to all the amps, a box with a relay to switch between amp inputs to loudspeaker, and a way to measure the output power (wattage meter) so you can set the amplifiers to same output level. The ABX switch is the only component that can't be easily bought, but it was trivial for him to make his own and randomize it with an arduino board. I can tell you from my own results, the results of his project, and everything I've ever read about ABXing amps that the only time null results don't occur is when one or both amps are driven to their clipping point. If you think what an amp sounds like when it clips should factor into a purchase decision then that's all you've got.

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