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quiz
65
Apr 29, 2015
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Please, tell me more about what having good watches can do for you.
Apr 29, 2015
Hughs8
37
Apr 29, 2015
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quizThere is no convincing a person on watches, you either love them or you see them as just a tool to tell time
Apr 29, 2015
andypak01
430
Apr 29, 2015
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quizYou will sleep with a 9 or 10 instead of a 4
Apr 29, 2015
Cyn1c
186
Apr 30, 2015
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andypak01Ha ha! That's because the cheaper watch will break at 4am, while the more expensive one will make it through the night, right? (I know that's probably not what you meant.)
Watches are a just piece of jewelry. Everyone has their own price point, brand, and style preference that they want to project.
What's sad is when people with expensive watches express distain for those who choose not to wear $6000 on their wrist, or vice versa. Just let people wear what the want!
Also, I have one of these watches. (M64 model) It's comfortable to wear, looks great (from my perspective) and is accurate to within +/-1 sec per day when wearing it and +4 sec per day when not, although this is not something that I obsess over. Lum Tec is fantastic to work with regards to their customer service and turnaround times. There are cheaper watches out there; you'll have to decide if it's worth paying for the look, quality control, and customer service. Again, that's a personal preference.
Apr 30, 2015
andypak01
430
May 1, 2015
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Cyn1cPeople can wear what they want. I don't care about what is on a person's wrist. But I do look at them differently when I see a nice watch. What's more, girls are more keen to make those observations. They will check out your shoes, belt, and watch and immediately make an assumption as to what you make. I don't know. .. it maybe just girls from So California area, and it maybe not like that in other parts of the world. By the way, I am talking about So California 9 or 10. Not 9 or 10 from Oregon or some other parts of U.S. 9 or 10 from Oregon will be 4 at best in So Cal Haha
May 1, 2015
GrimReefer8
41
May 2, 2015
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andypak01You sound like one giant pretentious douche lmfao
May 2, 2015
andypak01
430
May 2, 2015
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GrimReefer8Nope. Just a reality. If you don't think people judge you with how you look and how you talk, you probably don't have much going for you in your life.
May 2, 2015
GrimReefer8
41
May 2, 2015
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andypak01If you care how other people judge you, you definitely have nothing going for you in life & I'm sorry you live for other's approval.
May 2, 2015
Hughs8
37
May 2, 2015
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andypak01i understand and agree with the point your making but i think your exemplifying it the wrong way
May 2, 2015
Zilvent
81
May 4, 2015
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andypak01Unfortunately that's even wrong too. Before I counter the statement, I'll discuss about the watch. The price of a watch would be according to the budget of the user/wearer. Its like me and my $1000 IEMs. I enjoy it and I am willing on spending that much on a set but the next guy might not. That's fine and that doesn't make a person any less of an audio lover than me. The only thing that divides us is expense and our hearing ability. Same goes for these watches. Not having the most expensive or one of that high doesn't make you less of a quality person as the guy who does. The girls that you are talking about are extremely materialistic and I frankly doubt are "ladies". People don't judge a person only by the way they dress, but how they talk, carry themselves, and their intelligence. These watches are meant as jewelry and therefore add depth to the person wearing it, just like with everything else. However, it cannot define who you are and will be and its simply an external persona. Nothing more, nothing less.
May 4, 2015
L_Diddy
49
May 6, 2015
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andypak01The reason I will not pay this much for a Miyota movement is that they are incredibly cheap to acquire. With news of ETA manufacturer, Swatch Group, already limiting its distribution of ETA movements to outside watch manufacturers and completely ceasing its supply to others by 2019, the price of ETA movements have since already gone up. Yes, there are different grades of ETA movements but even the cheapest one will cost considerably more than a Miyota movement.
COSC certified movements usually employ the highest quality and most durable of components, especially jewels, just to be confident that they will pass the certification. This is to ensure the movement stay accurate for a much longer period of time. This is why they are so expensive. That being said, only about 3% of Swiss movements are COSC certified, mostly Rolex, Omega, Brietling, TAG, and Panerai.
LUM-TEC claims to tune the Miyota 9015 to exceed COSC accuracy standards but I question how long it will stay in the specified tuning. Hence why Citizen only claims -10 ~ 30 seconds/day accuracy on this movement. It doesn't matter how many time you tune it, it's still a Miyota 9015 with the same value of its components. Lets face it, if we really cared that much about accuracy, we would all be buying quartz watches.
http://www.citizen.co.jp/miyota_mvt/9015/pdf/spec_9015.pdf
Don't get me wrong, the Miyota 9015 is an excellent movement and will definitely give ETA a run for its money. I will definitely buy it but not for this price.
BONUS: There is a reason why high end watches cost that much. It is heavily labor intensive and costs a lot in overhead as well. You're paying for the salary of these highly devoted craftsmen that put out their heart and soul into them. I give you the Lange & Sohne factory tour.
May 6, 2015
andypak01
430
May 6, 2015
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GrimReefer8To be frank, only people whom do not have to care for what others think about them are accredited investors (people with exuberant amount of money) or a loser. Granted, we live in the land of freedom, and have freedom to do and look how we want, but I will not give a job to a Mohawk pothead.
May 6, 2015
Soundprank
101
May 6, 2015
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L_DiddyI just want to point out a few things about COSC because it's really just a marketing tool, and nothing more.
You CAN NOT be certified as COSC without being a Swiss movement; therefore, it's comparing apples to oranges here. The Miyota movement could theoretically beat a ETA movement all day, but would never be allowed to get the COSC certification.
COSC certifications are paid for. Smaller watch companies may not want to pay to get these certifications or simply cannot justify the cost. COSC certification means even less to me than an ISO 6425 diver certification. Just like a Rolex DEEPSEA isn't ISO 6425 certified (and I think you'd be crazy to not call that watch dive capable).
I've seen the humble Seiko 7S26/4R36 tuned to beat COSC certifications as well, so I have no doubt in my mind the better Miyota 9015 can also be tuned to beat a COSC certification. With regular maintenance, it can probably maintain that accuracy.
EDIT: I also want to point out that the timing in their spec sheet means very little. For example, I've seen Miyota 8215's beat COSC certification as well, and by default those movements came unadjusted (unregulated) and were merely put together. A competent watchmaker could take it apart and put it back together and beat it if they really wanted to.
May 6, 2015
L_Diddy
49
May 6, 2015
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SoundprankCOSC may as well be a marketing tool but you can't deny the quality of the components being put into the movement to pass the COSC certification, specifically hardstones that reduce the friction and wear of the moving parts. These parts also drive up the value of the movement.
There are a lot of high end Swiss watch companies that don't care about COSC either, doesn't mean there stuff is crap. Their reputation alone is enough to carry their brand. However, COSC certification does mean it passed a series of standardized tests.
I am not worshipping the COSC certification here since I mentioned that about 3% of Swiss watches have the certification. I am just pointing out that LUM-TEC claims that they tuned their Miyota to beat COSC certification as if it drives up the value of their watch. A regular ETA movement can be tuned to be more accurate too. The question is for how long? A month? A year? No one knows but who wants to constantly tune their watch. I don't even like opening it up let alone have it serviced every few years. Also note that the cheaper parts in Miyota will most likely wear out faster than in a higher end movement. The spec sheet for Miyota lists the accuracy range the company has tested where it can be stable. If it can sustain a much more accurate range indefinitely simply by tuning, don't you think Miyota would have claimed that higher specification instead?
You can buy a brand new Miyota movement for about $60 in the market while ETA movements are no less than $200. I'm not even considering how much these companies acquire them wholesale. That's how companies like Maratac can sell a watch with the Miyota 9015 movement for $200 and still make a good profit.
I'm not disputing the fact that the 9015 is an excellent movement. I'm just saying I'm not overpaying for it.
May 6, 2015
Soundprank
101
May 6, 2015
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L_DiddyThe thing is, most higher end watch makers that do have "better parts" based on an ETA movement, are also in house. Most of that work is down outside of the realm of ETA as a movement manufacturer. It's more the name ETA brings more with it than anything. Proprietary hairsprings, material blends, etc will go into a movement -- and at that point, when does it stop being ETA.
With regards to tuned spec, no one claims a tuned specification in their spec docs, because that's not how it will arrive. Anything can be made to perform better. If someone cared enough, I'm sure they could make their own pieces in the best material and clone a movement outright, and it'll perform better.
With ETA shutting down most of it's ebauche operations, other companies are either outright cloning or going outside, and rightly so. It's also what they're used to, and what people expect. I don't really see it as overpaying for a Miyota, but maybe it's the other way around. Miyota is more known for "workhorse" movements, and the name Miyota/Citizen will carry a stigma. Just like Seiko will probably be looked down upon, simply for the fact that it's a Seiko. Sure we all know of their common divers, and maybe even their Prospex line, but their Grand Seiko line is actually top notch.
May 6, 2015
L_Diddy
49
May 7, 2015
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SoundprankI can't find the spec sheets for ETA movements anymore but wikipedia still has the information. For the ETA 2824-2, here are the different grades:
.the Standard grade is adjusted in two positions with an average rate of +/-12 seconds/day, with a maximum daily variation of +/-30 seconds/day; .the Elaborated grade is adjusted in three positions with an average rate of +/-7 seconds/day, with a maximum daily variation of +/-20 seconds/day; .while the Top grade is adjusted in five positions with an average rate of +/-4 seconds/day, with a maximum daily variation of +/-15 seconds/day.
"The key components which differ at the line of demarcation between Elaborated and Top are the barrel spring, shock protection system, pallet stones, balance wheel & hairspring and the regulator mechanism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA#ETA_2824-2
Note that it's not just a matter of difference in tuning but also an array of upgraded parts.
Yes, the clone market is huge right now since ETA patents have long expired. However, market price is what determines how much I'm willing to pay for a product. It's a matter of economics, like paying extra for a PS4 when it was sold out everywhere. Back in the day you can get an authentic mid range ETA movement watch for less than $700 when ETA was still supplying for everyone and their mom. Now it's gonna cost you at least $1000 due to ETA limiting their supply to outside watch manufacturers.
That being said, I still rock a Seiko Pepsi Diver as a daily wearer over my more expensive ETA movement watches because it's a workhorse and a beater. Japanese movements are OK in my book.
I think LUM-TEC is overvaluing their product here. "Limited Edition" just means that there isn't that much demand for it. 316L stainless is common and nothing special since many other manufacturers, even Chinese ones, have it for cheap. It doesn't look like they did any modifications to the movement except tuning it. Their "top grade" leather band says "genuine leather", the cheapest grade underneath "top grain" and "full grain" that cracks easily and is usually spray painted.
The only real feature for them is the lume. Kudos to them for being American based though because 'MURICA. They may have my business in the future, just not this product at this price.
May 7, 2015
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