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upsguys8848
8
Jan 24, 2018
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jamato8Wow, this is way behind in the times, even Fiio has the Q1 MARK II that does DSD for $100
cspirou
220
Jan 25, 2018
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jamato8It's probably because its run in Class 1 USB audio mode. This doesn't require any drivers and is plug and play with basically anything. For a basic internal DAC, its good enough.
cspirou
220
Jan 25, 2018
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jamato8The DAC is current and is perfectly capable of going to 24/192. You can blame Microsoft Windows for not being able to recognize Class 2 USB audio without drivers.
Besides, most music is 16bit/44.1khz. If you really need 172khz or 192khz then there is nothing keeping you from using a better external DAC.
Besides, most music is 16bit/44.1khz. If you really need 172khz or 192khz then there is nothing keeping you from using a better external DAC.
jiangzhenjerry
28
Jan 25, 2018
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cspirouYou cannot blame Microsoft, because Windows 10 does support Class 2 USB audio without drivers. Besides, shouldn't "plug-and-play" be more relevant to portable DAC's? I don't see why a *desktop* DAC/Amp would use "plug-and-play" as an excuse for its limited support of audio formats. For $380, 24/96 is a big "no" to me.
cspirou
220
Jan 25, 2018
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jiangzhenjerryYou are making a big mistake if you are rejecting this dac/amp simply because you can't 'natively' play anything past 24/96. The amp section is 80% what you are paying for and the DAC is $80. And you still get a really good DAC for the price. I'd rather get a low distortion DAC that can only play 16 bits over a lousy DAC that plays formats almost no one uses.
jiangzhenjerry
28
Jan 25, 2018
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cspirouYou are making two big mistakes. Firstly, that you don't play files over 16bits doesn't mean others don't. You need to show statistics to justify that "almost no one uses". Secondly, if we eventually need a separate DAC, then it makes no difference that this buddy is "more portable and easily stackable than the sum of its parts" as advertised. At the very least, anyone who buys it but goes with more than 24/96 would waste $80 as you pointed out.
I'm not saying you or others cannot buy it - I respect everyone's preference. It's just that you cannot justify its shortage by blaming someone that's totally irrelevant (Microsoft in this case - how come Microsoft has anything to do with this?)
I'm not saying you or others cannot buy it - I respect everyone's preference. It's just that you cannot justify its shortage by blaming someone that's totally irrelevant (Microsoft in this case - how come Microsoft has anything to do with this?)
sirkuttin
145
Jan 25, 2018
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cspirouI can see both sides of this argument. Maybe the Liquid Carbon X is endgame for an amp. It's nice it has a basic DAC inside for solo use. I feel like no matter what, getting another DAC will be inevitable because new formats for high end audio keep coming out. Having one internal is not a fault, but a nice to have . It still plays the most common music formats for most people. However, I feel like there is still quite the premium on this item.
I just got the iDSD Black Label and they pack so much into it. - has a battery for portable use (transportable at best), - 6 gain settings! - a very clean bass boost, - interesting soundstage widening toggle (didn't like with full sized headphones but was nice for iems) , - It's dac does 32/768, dsd512 and all that mess. - 4,000mW single ended into 16ohms, the liquid carbon does 700mW into 50 ohms. which means the iDSD has the edge here for single ended even though it it so compact.
It has a really good DAC and a really good amp. i can go to a coffee shop if i wanted and use the battery to play tunes away from a wall outlet. I can power any headphone from the most sensitive iems up to the he6. yes, this is a $550 device. Generally, when you pack more things into less space, it costs more so the price being higher makes sense. With that in mind, how can this drop be for $370 and offer so little? I guess if you tout the amplifier as that much more superior. Well, maybe it is that much superior. I got my iDSD BL used on ebay for $390 and I have seen them go for less, I was just impatient in waiting for an auction to end. I found what I personally needed in the iDSD BL. The only thing missing is a balanced output.
I just got the iDSD Black Label and they pack so much into it. - has a battery for portable use (transportable at best), - 6 gain settings! - a very clean bass boost, - interesting soundstage widening toggle (didn't like with full sized headphones but was nice for iems) , - It's dac does 32/768, dsd512 and all that mess. - 4,000mW single ended into 16ohms, the liquid carbon does 700mW into 50 ohms. which means the iDSD has the edge here for single ended even though it it so compact.
It has a really good DAC and a really good amp. i can go to a coffee shop if i wanted and use the battery to play tunes away from a wall outlet. I can power any headphone from the most sensitive iems up to the he6. yes, this is a $550 device. Generally, when you pack more things into less space, it costs more so the price being higher makes sense. With that in mind, how can this drop be for $370 and offer so little? I guess if you tout the amplifier as that much more superior. Well, maybe it is that much superior. I got my iDSD BL used on ebay for $390 and I have seen them go for less, I was just impatient in waiting for an auction to end. I found what I personally needed in the iDSD BL. The only thing missing is a balanced output.
EinTheVariance
342
Jan 25, 2018
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sirkuttin> - 4,000mW single ended into 16ohms, the liquid carbon does 700mW into 50 ohms.
just gotta say, this is incorrect. 4 W @ 16 ohm is the max output. The Black Label is rated up to >1560 mW @ 64 ohm continuous power (RMS). This is still more than 700 mW RMS @ 50 ohm, but the difference is not quite as jarring, especially since now you can see that the balanced output at 2.8W RMS @ 50 ohm would be more power vs the Black Label, which I'm assuming people will use here (the value in a balanced amp has always been via the balanced output. A general rule of thumb is that the SE output of a balanced amp won't match the SE output of an SE amp at similar price points because obviously, the point of the amp is the balanced section). Obviously power isn't everything too.
And yes, what people need to realize is that this is literally the LCX (which sold for $299.99) with a basic budget SDAC ($80) thrown into it. Calling it a $380 DAC is unfair
just gotta say, this is incorrect. 4 W @ 16 ohm is the max output. The Black Label is rated up to >1560 mW @ 64 ohm continuous power (RMS). This is still more than 700 mW RMS @ 50 ohm, but the difference is not quite as jarring, especially since now you can see that the balanced output at 2.8W RMS @ 50 ohm would be more power vs the Black Label, which I'm assuming people will use here (the value in a balanced amp has always been via the balanced output. A general rule of thumb is that the SE output of a balanced amp won't match the SE output of an SE amp at similar price points because obviously, the point of the amp is the balanced section). Obviously power isn't everything too.
And yes, what people need to realize is that this is literally the LCX (which sold for $299.99) with a basic budget SDAC ($80) thrown into it. Calling it a $380 DAC is unfair
cspirou
220
Jan 25, 2018
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jiangzhenjerryWell statistics that straight up shows what digital formats people buy are hard to come by. But this should be a good argument. Here are the top selling albums for 2017
https://www.statista.com/statistics/189352/top-selling-digital-albums-in-the-united-states-in-2010/
Lets take the top 5 and see what are the highest rez formats available for them
Taylor Swift, Reputation - 16/44.1 Ed Sheeran, Divide - 24/44.1 at HD Tracks Kendrick Lamar, Damn - 16/44.1 flac from 7digital Drake, More Life - 16/44.1 flac from 7digital Moana soundtrack - 24/96 flac from HD Tracks
Of these the highest I could find was 24/96, which the SDAC can play NATIVELY no problem. Please note why I emphasize 'natively'. It's because the SDAC will actually still play 24/192. I have a Schiit Modi 1 that also has a similar 24/96 limitation, but I can still play all the 192khz tracks I want because the software will down sample the songs. Hence why this is a very poor excuse to dismiss this drop because you don't think you'll get the very best you can from playing the small number of albums sampled above 96khz. Which really doesn't matter anyway because this is a USB DAC and USB power is very noisy. Noisy enough that you will definitely not be able to resolve 24 bits of data and probably not 16 bits either.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/189352/top-selling-digital-albums-in-the-united-states-in-2010/
Lets take the top 5 and see what are the highest rez formats available for them
Taylor Swift, Reputation - 16/44.1 Ed Sheeran, Divide - 24/44.1 at HD Tracks Kendrick Lamar, Damn - 16/44.1 flac from 7digital Drake, More Life - 16/44.1 flac from 7digital Moana soundtrack - 24/96 flac from HD Tracks
Of these the highest I could find was 24/96, which the SDAC can play NATIVELY no problem. Please note why I emphasize 'natively'. It's because the SDAC will actually still play 24/192. I have a Schiit Modi 1 that also has a similar 24/96 limitation, but I can still play all the 192khz tracks I want because the software will down sample the songs. Hence why this is a very poor excuse to dismiss this drop because you don't think you'll get the very best you can from playing the small number of albums sampled above 96khz. Which really doesn't matter anyway because this is a USB DAC and USB power is very noisy. Noisy enough that you will definitely not be able to resolve 24 bits of data and probably not 16 bits either.
cspirou
220
Jan 25, 2018
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sirkuttinYou obviously bought the iDSD for the features you listed. That is not why people are buying the LCX. The main reason is because it is a high performing, high power balanced desktop amp. Those are the only merits you should really be comparing the two. You seem to like iFi and they have a headphone amp for $1700 with ZERO DSD or DAC features. The iDSD has far more features so why would anyone buy the iFi Pro iCan?
And really, some of those features are meaningless. You will NEVER use the 32/768 feature because it's physically impossible to resolve to 32 bits, at least not in a transportable amp. The lowest level with a 2V output would be around 400 picovolts. You can run this off battery power in a faraday cage and you still wouldn't reach anything remotely that close.
And really, some of those features are meaningless. You will NEVER use the 32/768 feature because it's physically impossible to resolve to 32 bits, at least not in a transportable amp. The lowest level with a 2V output would be around 400 picovolts. You can run this off battery power in a faraday cage and you still wouldn't reach anything remotely that close.
sirkuttin
145
Jan 25, 2018
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EinTheVarianceAh you are correct about the output power. I don't think I said the LCX was a $370 dac... I feel like I was honest that I agree with both sides. Some people find the LCX with SDAC to be not very feature rush for the price. But I said it could very well be that the Amp is just that good. An I did say it was nice that the SDAC inside played the most common file formats still used.
I do hope people buy this for the balanced output to maximize this amp. I do wish Massdrop went fully balanced with a balanced internal DAC however.
I do hope people buy this for the balanced output to maximize this amp. I do wish Massdrop went fully balanced with a balanced internal DAC however.
sirkuttin
145
Jan 25, 2018
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cspirouRight. You read my post? my first paragraph saying maybe the amp is just that good and my last sentence saying my iDSD doesn't do balanced. I do wish for a balanced amp eventually.
You obviously need to slow down with your statements. I bought the IDSD for SOME of those features. I have nerded out on audio for so long I fully understand the bit rate and sampling rate stuff. The feature list I layer out was to make a point. I understand why people wonder why the LCX plus SDAC seems feature light.
When I planned to get the IDSD I was weighing out many options. I really did want a balanced output. A year ago, I had a Jotunheim with internal dac which I got rid of quite quick. I really did not like the way it sounded. Now looking back, it was most likely the dac I did not like. I heard many reviews saying the DAC in the IDSD was super good. So I figure I can use the IDSD for its dac and always get a balanced headphone amp later to add on. It won't be a fully balanced system but neither is the one here. This drop is actually tempting but I will have to wait since I did just get the lcd2 and IDSD.
You obviously need to slow down with your statements. I bought the IDSD for SOME of those features. I have nerded out on audio for so long I fully understand the bit rate and sampling rate stuff. The feature list I layer out was to make a point. I understand why people wonder why the LCX plus SDAC seems feature light.
When I planned to get the IDSD I was weighing out many options. I really did want a balanced output. A year ago, I had a Jotunheim with internal dac which I got rid of quite quick. I really did not like the way it sounded. Now looking back, it was most likely the dac I did not like. I heard many reviews saying the DAC in the IDSD was super good. So I figure I can use the IDSD for its dac and always get a balanced headphone amp later to add on. It won't be a fully balanced system but neither is the one here. This drop is actually tempting but I will have to wait since I did just get the lcd2 and IDSD.
EinTheVariance
342
Jan 25, 2018
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sirkuttinyea, that statement wasn't really directed at you or anything. It just seemed like the conversation was pointing towards this being a terrible buy because you are paying $380 for a DAC that can't do DSD, etc when in reality, this is the LCX being stuffed with a basic DAC so that beginners can jump in and have a built in DAC right away and then upgrade later if they want to since all inputs on the LCX remains available. If you already have a decent to great DAC that you are not interested in replacing, the standalone LCX is definitely the better buy (which is what I signed up for :D ). Performance wise it's hard to say since not many have heard it but if it is the liquid carbon like it claims to be, I can't wait!
Anyway, I just wanted to make sure false info isn't being spread around, so I hope you don't take it personally.
Anyway, I just wanted to make sure false info isn't being spread around, so I hope you don't take it personally.
loplop
12
Jan 25, 2018
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sirkuttinThe iDSD BL is a fantastic transportable DAC/AMP, with a pleasing sound signature and a ton of features. I've owned one since they launched, and it's a great bang for the buck.
IMO (and although I enjoy it as a standalone) the amp is the weakest part of the iDSD BL. I think the DAC is at a higher level, and an iDSD BL into the LCX would likely be a nice setup.
As a standalone I'd expect the iDSD BL to be a better overall sound than this LCX/SDAC, but that's just a guess from looking at spec sheets as I've never heard the SDAC.
I joined the drop to find out :)
IMO (and although I enjoy it as a standalone) the amp is the weakest part of the iDSD BL. I think the DAC is at a higher level, and an iDSD BL into the LCX would likely be a nice setup.
As a standalone I'd expect the iDSD BL to be a better overall sound than this LCX/SDAC, but that's just a guess from looking at spec sheets as I've never heard the SDAC.
I joined the drop to find out :)
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