By far the worst sounding amp *I own. If you can afford this, you can afford the FiiO amps, starting with the E10K and above.
At first I couldn't figure out how this could be (what I will describe later), but it's as if (possibly actually the case that) nwavguy cheated in how he designed the circuit to result in such low output distortion and generally such high specs/benchmarks. What I mean is, to achieve such low distortion (on paper), it's not just the integrity of the circuit that was maintained through careful design and component selection, but the actual source coming in is also affected where whatever effects of the circuit are attempted to be negated (having not analyzed the circuit myself, I couldn't exactly tell you whether it's messing with phase/polarity or what it could be). I get this idea from the fact that the sound is like that of no other low, mid, or high-end amp I've ever experienced. In a word, it literally just sucks the life out of the music going through it. As an audio engineer, I can tell you that when the sound is coming in and getting recorded (by whatever means), at no stage does it EVER sound like that. This is particularly more evident/noticeable is using transparent, neutral, and otherwise sensitive headphones (like the Brainwavz HM5's for instance) and with full-range frequency content like Metal music.
In his fight against tube amps, against "audiophile" perspectives on all types of audio gear/technologies, and perhaps against whatever other forms of overpriced snakeoil (which I side with him on, even if not entirely what he actually builds from in his conclusions), he unfortunately actually managed to prove those people right. I have heard plenty of horrible sounding solid state amps which create this unpleasant kind of odd-ordered harmonic distortion, particularly in the higher frequencies, forcing you to keep the music at clinically low levels, as instead of getting fuller, it gets more unpleasant as it gets louder, but this isn't exactly what people would typically comment on this. People would often say that solid state amps have a "cold" or "digital" sound to them - no liveliness to them. Well, whatever that means, the O2 amp would actually be what would fit such a description. I am quite honestly embarrassed for having fallen into the hype myself and used this amp as an example of greatness in debates in the past, prior to even having heard it myself.
While I am highly analytical and into objective measurements of things (not just in audio), I don't think we're there yet in our tools to accurately reflect the psychoacoustic phenomenon and other aspects of human hearing - what or how a piece of equipment functions relative to our real-world perception. I can definitely say that this amp is not neutral and imprints a definite signature on most any song, adding almost like an inverse distortion in - removing certain harmonics and other characteristics which is largely what actually places you in the context of what you're listening to. Nothing in nature or in the recording process I've ever heard has otherwise ever had this sort of characteristic or left this kind of sonic imprint. I was able to easily AB test the O2 against any other amp and easily identify it - unfortunately, not of course in a good way.
", I don't think we're there yet in our tools to accurately reflect the psycho-acoustic phenomenon and other aspects of human hearing" lol yes there are, but that's not really the point of the amp, the point of the amp is to reproduce the sound going in, which has nothing to do with human hearing, and yes, we have tools to measure and make sure and measure how much (accurately) the output is like that. =) heh. don't worry about the human ear when shopping,. i say, just get an accurate instrument which reproduces what you feed it, like the O2. Maybe your source of sound, like mp3 files suck.., or the mastered music,.., cant blame the amp for that.., because other quality sources might sound very different ;-) Maybe you device is malfunctioning, I'd try a mayflower 02. They're also around 99 bucks. You shouldn't be able to audibly here the difference between an 02, level matched (same volume) to another "great" (accurate) amp.., it's just a wire plus gain ;-) shouldn't have a "sound", and certainly shouldn't be having any effect on making your music sound lifeless, lol, it's measured to show that it don't., unless your music source is already lifeless., like a highly "compressed" mp3 file..,
No, I'm comparing it to all the other amps I have and otherwise listened to (also measured to be "accurate"). That's exactly the point that we don't have the tools for an accurate measure/representation of the psychoacoustic phenomena in question.
No, it is not the result of any mastering or digital compression. I described the effect quite clearly. It is ELECTRONICALLY accurate, however it was measured. My point was that once it's converted back into acoustic waves, they are NOT experienced the way they're EVER are in real life (I can vouch for that as a sound engineer).
psychoacoustic phenomena, you mean whatever your own heads making up? lol. Please don't mislead people, everything good in an amplifier is measurable, like any electronic instrument. Anything else psycho acoustic probably doesn't belong in an amplifier review, so much as a a therapist's footnotes.,, ;-)
"My point was that once it's converted back into acoustic waves, they are NOT experienced the way they're EVER are in real life (I can vouch for that as a sound engineer)." This statement doesn't make any sense, "They are not experienced the way they're ever are in real life?" What is "they, you've failed to say., You mean the sound reproduction isnt as the original "singer" (in the case of recorded digitally audio i guess? was originally singing before recording to a digital master? (Not cga (computer generated audio(re you forgetting this amp scopes that application as well???))). We'll of course not, that has to do with the storage format, not an audio amplifier ;-) please, your just misleading and confusing people. What matter is how accurate the amp is in handling the digital samples, not whether digital sampling(like "digital music") is "great" or not., Or sorry, whatever else do you mean to say? Reads to me like you have more a problem with the recording and storage formats, and your headphones than you do with this amplifier.., :P You think the amp is having such a corrupting effect on your samples or is so bad on your headphones? if so, like i said, maybe your application is.., not setup correctly.., heh. Like maybe you have a broken 02, or you have headphone which need more power than the O2 offers, something you could have checked before buying, since the O2's power abilities are well advertised for implementation.. like, if your hungry for 6 or 7 apples, maybe dont buy 5 apples and then rte the apples as bad because your still hungry, the power on tap is well advertised, in the evnt you have very power hungry headphones.., it's like rating a gass station as bad for you choosing not to purchase enough gass to make it to the next station,.., no the gass is good here.,, thats an operator error.., ;-p like don't buy 5 liters gass to go 7 liters gass way, the gass is totally good the mileage specs and pricing is all there. ;-) maybe your unit is malfunctioning..,? shou;dnt sound any different than any of your other amps, and shouldn't sound much of anything at all ;-) maybe your hearing a really power hungry and power starved headphone, or maybe all your other amps have an high output impedance,which has corrupted your sound reproduction and expectations..,
I already know your perspective. There's no point in me trying to change it as you're certainly not here to learn anything from me. With respect to my previous comment, it was intended to reference points I've already made in my initial review, as your perspective was literally the one it was meant to challenge as I find IT to be the one that's misleading - misleading even me, even though I already knew better. My review is intended for people still trying to make up their minds.
Furthermore, if you're going to refer to psychoacoustics (how our brain interprets and further experiences sound, depending on how it's physically manifested) as "what your own head's making up", it only showcases your own ignorance on the topic, which is kind of the irony here. This is further demonstrated by how your suggestions make no sense (as to what might the problem be) given the circumstance I described (nevermind that I'm very well informed on this topic and always have my setup optimized beyond any given norm). The digital domain is literally where I started my learning in audio. I also mentioned what headphones I was working with...
By "they", I was referring to the general sound, but more specifically its harmonic representation.
Like I said, I'm not willing to argue this here (or now), but I'll give you one example of something to demonstrate my point with respect to how benchmarking and measuring the electrical output is misaligned with what actually influences our human perception. A measure of THD (total harmonic distortion) doesn't tell you WHICH harmonics or where (though obviously you can find graphs which do highlight how much in what specific frequencies). We perceive odd and even-ordered harmonics very differently, and odd-ordered harmonics we perceive as less natural (or "digital sounding", as audiophiles may have often cried). This is because sounds in nature very uncommonly have this kind of harmonic balance, and we are very keen to sense this. In other words, you can have TWICE as much distortion, but if it's even-ordered, we are likely to perceive it as CLOSER to the original sound (as originally captured) than we would with half as much if it's odd-ordered.
As I otherwise mentioned, I don't know what exactly the O2 amp is doing to result in the kind of sound I was describing, for reasons you agreed with me on which we don't have the tools for, but I picked it out every time in the conducted AB test (with help from a friend who ensured there was no possible association I can have for where the sound is being sourced from). Take from this what you will.
"There's no point in me trying to change it as you're certainly not here to learn anything from me. With respect to my previous comment, it was intended to reference points I've already made in my initial review, as your perspective was literally the one it was meant to challenge as I find IT to be the one that's misleading - misleading even me, even though I already knew better. My review is intended for people still trying to make up their minds."
firstly,, im here to elarn, and your slandering my character with this besmeachness, and thats totoally out of bounds.,, i've asked you to explain what exactly you mean, for the very fariness that you might teach me something, yet you now dodge anwering my questions and challenges directly and serve an excuse, lambasting me as a person unwilling to learn, which is obviously false. Secondly a perspective cant inherently be misleading, your argument that "my perspective" is misleading for you makes no sense to me..
You make your post, not as a review of the product, but to challenge the perspective the all items representing sound reproduction are measured, especially regarding the role of an amplifier? That is, you feel there are unmeasured figures in the reproduction of the sound samples and that my perspective the the reproduction is measurable is misleading to you?
" measure of THD (total harmonic distortion) doesn't tell you WHICH harmonics or where (though obviously you can find graphs which do highlight how much in what specific frequencies)." yes and while the graphs are viewable, this is just in terms of distortions, which is measureable against that characteristic of other amps, like one persons purse might have 1 loonie and 3 quarters, and represent a total value of one dollar and seventy five cents, someone might elsewise have three dollars, these are real values, just like thd, it's pretty easy to see the graph and pic a proffered plot..,
"This is because sounds in nature very uncommonly have this kind of harmonic balance, and we are very keen to sense this. In other words, you can have TWICE as much distortion, but if it's even-ordered, we are likely to perceive it as CLOSER to the original sound (as originally captured) than we would with half as much if it's odd-ordered."
lol okay, but what d you mean to say this has to do with this particular amp then?! in so much as any other amp?
"As I otherwise mentioned, I don't know what exactly the O2 amp is doing to result in the kind of sound I was describing, for reasons you agreed with me on which we don't have the tools for, but I picked it out every time in the conducted AB test (with help from a friend who ensured there was no possible association I can have for where the sound is being sourced from). Take from this what you will.
"
well then i simply chalk your experience up to an improperly setup implementation, something you have setup there, i say, is obviously broken. Measure your output impedance of your reference condition is too high for your phones, or maybe your going out of bounds with this amp and your power draw,. not sure, maybe your test setup for your ab comparison is not well done, or your other amp is broken, but the amps jobs is to accurately reproduce the samples, and shouldn't sound noticeably then any other quality amp., besides a bit of distortion, especially when your testing mono, 1 channel at a time., so if something is coloring the music, so things sound different to you, your equipment i must contest is; improperly setup. One amp shouldn't have anymore bass, or any more trebel, then the other quality amp. right? So long as the power demand is there, the 02's been shown to reproduce the frequencies evenly well, at various loads eh., unless your convincing yourself of things, and then thats hardly fair on the amp. Do you agree that any given test tone should be reproduce the same between the 02 and any other quality(accurate in reproducing source material) "amplifier"? Like, if you need to you can ytest reproducing a 60hz sound at reference condition, and see if your system pics up that 60hz sound at the correct volume, once you've calibrated your setup. even throw some loads in there
Maybe you are here to learn, but not from me. You couldn't have rode in on a higher horse and couldn't have been more smug, demeaning, and belittling - further being needlessly selective in what you were singling out, strawmanning the whole of anything I said (in a derogatory and slanderous fashion) and furthermore presumptuous. No reason I shouldn't minimally call you out on that or otherwise legitimized it by simply going with it. I waited till your next comment to see if you would tone it down but instead you actually did the opposite and double-downed. If you bothered to check yourself first, I wouldn't have had to say anything. The internet creates the illusion that anyone can be talked to by anyone else as if to a clueless child.
You're continuing to do the same thing. Yes, a perspective that's offered as the truth can be misleading to somebody else. No, there's no reason to assume an improper setup which at this this point I have to submit is a rationalization, precisely in order to dismiss anything being said - again having used reductionism and strawman tactics. And no, I'm not dodging, as I actually engaged this your nonsense and explained myself further, so if anyone with sense were to come across this, they might possibly retain some further value. Any further reason I'm not responding to anything else is because your questions aren't questions; they're underhanded insinuations.
You made this personal from the very first post, so now you get in return a response to the undertone your commentary has had throughout, which was way more substantial than anything you actually said, unfortunately...
Feel free to further vent your poorly constructed babble with this uncooperative mindset you've developed in your social approach/interactions. Hope one day you're surrounded by better people with whom this isn't the established norm, as is all it could possibly be with you quite literally open the conversation in this way (doesn't matter how good YOU think the people are). A mentality like this is completely a product of the environment, so I don't blame you, but I don't care to further engage. Nothing productive about it and whether consciously or not, you're forcing it to be even less so - again, the furthest thing from wanting to learn anything from me, regardless of your purported intentions.
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At first I couldn't figure out how this could be (what I will describe later), but it's as if (possibly actually the case that) nwavguy cheated in how he designed the circuit to result in such low output distortion and generally such high specs/benchmarks. What I mean is, to achieve such low distortion (on paper), it's not just the integrity of the circuit that was maintained through careful design and component selection, but the actual source coming in is also affected where whatever effects of the circuit are attempted to be negated (having not analyzed the circuit myself, I couldn't exactly tell you whether it's messing with phase/polarity or what it could be). I get this idea from the fact that the sound is like that of no other low, mid, or high-end amp I've ever experienced. In a word, it literally just sucks the life out of the music going through it. As an audio engineer, I can tell you that when the sound is coming in and getting recorded (by whatever means), at no stage does it EVER sound like that. This is particularly more evident/noticeable is using transparent, neutral, and otherwise sensitive headphones (like the Brainwavz HM5's for instance) and with full-range frequency content like Metal music.
In his fight against tube amps, against "audiophile" perspectives on all types of audio gear/technologies, and perhaps against whatever other forms of overpriced snakeoil (which I side with him on, even if not entirely what he actually builds from in his conclusions), he unfortunately actually managed to prove those people right. I have heard plenty of horrible sounding solid state amps which create this unpleasant kind of odd-ordered harmonic distortion, particularly in the higher frequencies, forcing you to keep the music at clinically low levels, as instead of getting fuller, it gets more unpleasant as it gets louder, but this isn't exactly what people would typically comment on this. People would often say that solid state amps have a "cold" or "digital" sound to them - no liveliness to them. Well, whatever that means, the O2 amp would actually be what would fit such a description. I am quite honestly embarrassed for having fallen into the hype myself and used this amp as an example of greatness in debates in the past, prior to even having heard it myself.
While I am highly analytical and into objective measurements of things (not just in audio), I don't think we're there yet in our tools to accurately reflect the psychoacoustic phenomenon and other aspects of human hearing - what or how a piece of equipment functions relative to our real-world perception. I can definitely say that this amp is not neutral and imprints a definite signature on most any song, adding almost like an inverse distortion in - removing certain harmonics and other characteristics which is largely what actually places you in the context of what you're listening to. Nothing in nature or in the recording process I've ever heard has otherwise ever had this sort of characteristic or left this kind of sonic imprint. I was able to easily AB test the O2 against any other amp and easily identify it - unfortunately, not of course in a good way.
No, it is not the result of any mastering or digital compression. I described the effect quite clearly. It is ELECTRONICALLY accurate, however it was measured. My point was that once it's converted back into acoustic waves, they are NOT experienced the way they're EVER are in real life (I can vouch for that as a sound engineer).
"My point was that once it's converted back into acoustic waves, they are NOT experienced the way they're EVER are in real life (I can vouch for that as a sound engineer)." This statement doesn't make any sense, "They are not experienced the way they're ever are in real life?" What is "they, you've failed to say., You mean the sound reproduction isnt as the original "singer" (in the case of recorded digitally audio i guess? was originally singing before recording to a digital master? (Not cga (computer generated audio(re you forgetting this amp scopes that application as well???))). We'll of course not, that has to do with the storage format, not an audio amplifier ;-) please, your just misleading and confusing people. What matter is how accurate the amp is in handling the digital samples, not whether digital sampling(like "digital music") is "great" or not., Or sorry, whatever else do you mean to say? Reads to me like you have more a problem with the recording and storage formats, and your headphones than you do with this amplifier.., :P You think the amp is having such a corrupting effect on your samples or is so bad on your headphones? if so, like i said, maybe your application is.., not setup correctly.., heh. Like maybe you have a broken 02, or you have headphone which need more power than the O2 offers, something you could have checked before buying, since the O2's power abilities are well advertised for implementation.. like, if your hungry for 6 or 7 apples, maybe dont buy 5 apples and then rte the apples as bad because your still hungry, the power on tap is well advertised, in the evnt you have very power hungry headphones.., it's like rating a gass station as bad for you choosing not to purchase enough gass to make it to the next station,.., no the gass is good here.,, thats an operator error.., ;-p like don't buy 5 liters gass to go 7 liters gass way, the gass is totally good the mileage specs and pricing is all there. ;-) maybe your unit is malfunctioning..,? shou;dnt sound any different than any of your other amps, and shouldn't sound much of anything at all ;-) maybe your hearing a really power hungry and power starved headphone, or maybe all your other amps have an high output impedance,which has corrupted your sound reproduction and expectations..,
Furthermore, if you're going to refer to psychoacoustics (how our brain interprets and further experiences sound, depending on how it's physically manifested) as "what your own head's making up", it only showcases your own ignorance on the topic, which is kind of the irony here. This is further demonstrated by how your suggestions make no sense (as to what might the problem be) given the circumstance I described (nevermind that I'm very well informed on this topic and always have my setup optimized beyond any given norm). The digital domain is literally where I started my learning in audio. I also mentioned what headphones I was working with...
By "they", I was referring to the general sound, but more specifically its harmonic representation.
Like I said, I'm not willing to argue this here (or now), but I'll give you one example of something to demonstrate my point with respect to how benchmarking and measuring the electrical output is misaligned with what actually influences our human perception. A measure of THD (total harmonic distortion) doesn't tell you WHICH harmonics or where (though obviously you can find graphs which do highlight how much in what specific frequencies). We perceive odd and even-ordered harmonics very differently, and odd-ordered harmonics we perceive as less natural (or "digital sounding", as audiophiles may have often cried). This is because sounds in nature very uncommonly have this kind of harmonic balance, and we are very keen to sense this. In other words, you can have TWICE as much distortion, but if it's even-ordered, we are likely to perceive it as CLOSER to the original sound (as originally captured) than we would with half as much if it's odd-ordered.
As I otherwise mentioned, I don't know what exactly the O2 amp is doing to result in the kind of sound I was describing, for reasons you agreed with me on which we don't have the tools for, but I picked it out every time in the conducted AB test (with help from a friend who ensured there was no possible association I can have for where the sound is being sourced from). Take from this what you will.
You make your post, not as a review of the product, but to challenge the perspective the all items representing sound reproduction are measured, especially regarding the role of an amplifier? That is, you feel there are unmeasured figures in the reproduction of the sound samples and that my perspective the the reproduction is measurable is misleading to you?
" measure of THD (total harmonic distortion) doesn't tell you WHICH harmonics or where (though obviously you can find graphs which do highlight how much in what specific frequencies)." yes and while the graphs are viewable, this is just in terms of distortions, which is measureable against that characteristic of other amps, like one persons purse might have 1 loonie and 3 quarters, and represent a total value of one dollar and seventy five cents, someone might elsewise have three dollars, these are real values, just like thd, it's pretty easy to see the graph and pic a proffered plot..,
"This is because sounds in nature very uncommonly have this kind of harmonic balance, and we are very keen to sense this. In other words, you can have TWICE as much distortion, but if it's even-ordered, we are likely to perceive it as CLOSER to the original sound (as originally captured) than we would with half as much if it's odd-ordered."
lol okay, but what d you mean to say this has to do with this particular amp then?! in so much as any other amp?
"As I otherwise mentioned, I don't know what exactly the O2 amp is doing to result in the kind of sound I was describing, for reasons you agreed with me on which we don't have the tools for, but I picked it out every time in the conducted AB test (with help from a friend who ensured there was no possible association I can have for where the sound is being sourced from). Take from this what you will.
" well then i simply chalk your experience up to an improperly setup implementation, something you have setup there, i say, is obviously broken. Measure your output impedance of your reference condition is too high for your phones, or maybe your going out of bounds with this amp and your power draw,. not sure, maybe your test setup for your ab comparison is not well done, or your other amp is broken, but the amps jobs is to accurately reproduce the samples, and shouldn't sound noticeably then any other quality amp., besides a bit of distortion, especially when your testing mono, 1 channel at a time., so if something is coloring the music, so things sound different to you, your equipment i must contest is; improperly setup. One amp shouldn't have anymore bass, or any more trebel, then the other quality amp. right? So long as the power demand is there, the 02's been shown to reproduce the frequencies evenly well, at various loads eh., unless your convincing yourself of things, and then thats hardly fair on the amp. Do you agree that any given test tone should be reproduce the same between the 02 and any other quality(accurate in reproducing source material) "amplifier"? Like, if you need to you can ytest reproducing a 60hz sound at reference condition, and see if your system pics up that 60hz sound at the correct volume, once you've calibrated your setup. even throw some loads in there
You're continuing to do the same thing. Yes, a perspective that's offered as the truth can be misleading to somebody else. No, there's no reason to assume an improper setup which at this this point I have to submit is a rationalization, precisely in order to dismiss anything being said - again having used reductionism and strawman tactics. And no, I'm not dodging, as I actually engaged this your nonsense and explained myself further, so if anyone with sense were to come across this, they might possibly retain some further value. Any further reason I'm not responding to anything else is because your questions aren't questions; they're underhanded insinuations.
You made this personal from the very first post, so now you get in return a response to the undertone your commentary has had throughout, which was way more substantial than anything you actually said, unfortunately...
Feel free to further vent your poorly constructed babble with this uncooperative mindset you've developed in your social approach/interactions. Hope one day you're surrounded by better people with whom this isn't the established norm, as is all it could possibly be with you quite literally open the conversation in this way (doesn't matter how good YOU think the people are). A mentality like this is completely a product of the environment, so I don't blame you, but I don't care to further engage. Nothing productive about it and whether consciously or not, you're forcing it to be even less so - again, the furthest thing from wanting to learn anything from me, regardless of your purported intentions.