Massdrop Objective 2 Headphone Amp: Desktop Edition Discussions | Drop

Massdrop Objective 2 Headphone Amp: Desktop Edition

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runeoe

Jul 27, 2015

@the gurus/experts
***please set the record straight as far as what is even possible at this price range.***
So people do not waste time requesting impossible features.
Rechargeable batteries even at bulk rates would drive cost up what? $25-$30??? so that is not a realistic request at $70 shipped.
is DAC even possible at this price range?

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CasualSin

114

Jul 28, 2015

runeoeMost of the members should be pretty informed that at this price range that we're just getting the basic O2 amp with maybe with a few mods. And from what Tyler had to say:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/mayflower-dac?s=Mayflower TylerJ.Chilton 112 replying to kuzmin.ca George at yoyodyne consulting, who supplies the ODAC's to everyone, has restricted massdrop sales. We were allowed only 100 units, but this will be it.
No ODACs this year unless MD worked something out.

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feet

Jul 28, 2015

CasualSinWell, that sucks. Wonder why they're being stingy for the ODACS...

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Kalius

Jul 28, 2015

feetOn page 1 I believe Will answers several questions and I quote. "Q: Is there going to be an ODAC compliment? A: There will be a complementary DAC released on Massdrop very soon. It won't be exactly the ODAC (because the ODAC is not published under the same license as the O2, a company called yoyodyne consulting in Canada owns the design) but it will meet the same needs from an audio perspective and from a design perspective (it'll fit nicely with this O2 and we should have some custom interconnects to keep your desk looking clean)."
Although it'll fit the same needs and look decent paired with the O2 can we expect similiar if not better performance to the ODAC?

CasualSin

114

Jul 28, 2015

feetThe first two pages pretty much covers almost all of the questions that most of the late comers are asking. However the odd part is most of Tyler's post have been deleted or he's edited his post.
1. These are not being made by the usual suspects, these are being made in China. 2. MD keeps on talking about how the internal pictures that they have shown off is just a prototype and the final shipped product will be as close as possible to the NwAvGuy's design (this part is a bit murky). 3. They will be using all matte finish on the final box that's aluminium and not the normal O2 box. 4. There will be NO ODAC. 5. Apparently they are working with someone to make a complimentary DAC to go with this unit.

Jul 28, 2015

CasualSini will avoid this drop at all cost as the qc over china is below average. i highly doubt that the factory who build this will use all the required spec parts for the amp. it's really silly to said the picture showing were used what they had in hand at the given time. that's unheard of for anyone who building amps. and to me, sounds like they have no clue until someone mentioned it and tried to cover it up. remember, MD don't offer return, and not many people actually know what parts are suppose to be use. we might be getting a lesser spec o2 that not even worth the 70dollars and a month and a half of waiting.

AkumaKurono

347

Jul 28, 2015

dcbaIf what you say is true, I'm definitely pulling away from this drop.

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zoomorph

423

Jul 28, 2015

dcbaThis is certainly a gamble. I'm considering withdrawing and waiting for feedback and reviews from the first shipment. I'm sure Massdrop will be dropping their O2 every second month indefinitely (like their "limited edition" headphones) if they aren't a total failure. Selling their own Chinese-manufactured products is worth far more profit than splitting someone else's sale-price margins.

Jul 28, 2015

AkumaKuronothat was what will responded on page two after someone mentioned about the different resistor were used on the picture posted. and the reasons was just classic.

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AkumaKurono

347

Jul 28, 2015

dcbaI guess this is one of those cases that's "Too good to be true." I guess I'll just buy me one from JDS Labs

Gottn

Jul 28, 2015

dcbaThe thing is though, they will test every components so they know that we will get a nearly identical product as to the original NwAvGuy O2, except from the casing.

spacespeed

Jul 28, 2015

dcbaThat design with parts as is has already been measured, and has, what, about 0.03db of extra frequency variance over the original design? Good luck trying to detect that in a double-blind test. The entire point of the amp was to demonstrate that one could build a reference-grade amp with low-cost parts, and if they've figured out some way to make the thing cheaper and measure almost as well, more power to them. If they run into legal issues with that - well, that's on their heads, not ours. Of course, I will expect that they will release the full measurements for the amp if they have made any modifications to the components.
Also, none of the parts that they say have changed are audio path components. R25 is to prevent the amp from bouncing off and on on battery power. On AC, the MOSFETs are mostly used to reduce transient currents. They technically can be bypassed altogether, but the power on/off transients would possibly ruin headphones in that case. If they changed the output stage opamps or capacitor sizes, you might have a point, but as is, all of that stuff is power management and safeties.
(Note that this does change a bit in significance if you plan on attaching batteries - that's a case of the amp potentially showing massive amounts of DC offset and wrecking headphones if the batteries become unbalanced without the MOSFETs)

Jul 28, 2015

GottnOh yes, they will provide a nearly identical product, or not. Who knows? All we've seen is a prototype that is not O2. So Massdrop, instead of respecting NwAvGuy and offering THE O2, try to go for maximum profit and fuck up NwAvGuy's design, against the VERY CLEAR terms under which he released the design. Get your priorities straight Massdrop, and offer the original design. If you decide you can't compete with the competition, don't offer it at all.

Jul 28, 2015

spacespeedread the post above you. and tell me is it worth it to save a few bucks than getting a generic o2 with all the parts that met the requirement as you already mentioned, it can ruin your headphone, so save a few bucks, and lose a few hundreds on your headphone is worth it in this case?

Jul 28, 2015

spacespeed"If they run into legal issues with that - well, that's on their heads, not ours."
I'm not generally against clones of commercial designs, but doing this to a FREE design, and a great one no less, rubs me the wrong way.

Jul 28, 2015

chzelwhen all the parts included power supply can be obtain for 46.33 (without the case). i really don't see how they can not make any profit even sticking with the specs.

spacespeed

Jul 28, 2015

dcbaHmm, I'll be watching their response/what they do with it before making any more decisions. The thing is, though, that "generic" isn't necessarily a bad thing - it's difficult to say whether the change is just "it doesn't have a brand name on it" vs "it doesn't meet specs in some audible way".
C13/C14 is concerning - they shouldn't change the actual capacitor values. Although I'm a bit confused over red/gray? At least I don't see any gray capacitors anywhere on the official O2 pictures. That being said - how did they get the measurements to match so closely if this has audible effects?
With regards to prototyping: perhaps they just wanted to get a picture out? I don't think there's a freely-reusable image of an assembled O2 board that they could use as a stock image.
Does the license actually require that the exact components on the BOM be used, or does it merely require that the components have the value specified?

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Jul 28, 2015

spacespeed"Does the license actually require that the exact components on the BOM be used, or does it merely require that the components have the value specified?"
NwAvGuy gives specific part numbers with manufacturers part no, Mouser part no, and Farnell part no. and requires these to be used in the license. In certain parts (only 3-4) there are generic replacements specified (eg "Any 1N4002 in DO-41 or DO-204AL package"), but everything else is tightly specified.

MonsieurKirby

154

Jul 29, 2015

spacespeed"Does the license actually require that the exact components on the BOM be used, or does it merely require that the components have the value specified?"
I have this question as well. Normally, there are multiple components that can meet specs, and I don't just mean a 1k resistor is the same as another 1k resistor. Many resistors specified are low-noise, metal film, and some have tighter tolerances than others. As long as the part meets specs, does it matter if it was this exact model from this exact manufacturer versus something different in name only?
To me, it seems unusual to specify a manufacturer. I suppose there may be variations from manufacturer to manufacturer, but that's why testing should always be done to verify performance and quality.

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Jul 29, 2015

MonsieurKirbyUnusual as it may seem, he did it. His design, his rules, his justifications. You can see how exactly he specifies part numbers from specific manufacturers. Here is a link to the BOM: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B52Awjeyc5zKYWViZjlhNzItZDBmYi00YjA4LTk1NzgtZTMwNTAzMWQ3Y2Iy&hl=en_US

YachadM

Jul 29, 2015

chzelLooking through the BoM, I see that he has chosen very high quality components, except for that Lelon capacitor which snuck in there somehow. His specific choice of Vishay SFR and CCF resistors (or the Nichicon UPW capacitor) for their specific functions, proves that he knows exactly what he's doing, and no, you can't go in and just substitute with generic crap and hope that you get the same reliability or performance.
In my designs, I always specify Vishay as a first choice (where available), not because I'm a brand snob, but because our customers expect, and pay for reliability.
Deviate from your mission, and you can count the days until you're tossed in the trash can.

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