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vampy
24
Sep 20, 2017
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aditxman
34
Sep 20, 2017
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vampyyour question is same like me i have x6 fx audio dac amp and also hd 650 lol
i guess it will have improvement but a little
better go with topping a30 and d30 combo stack
i guess it will have improvement but a little
better go with topping a30 and d30 combo stack
Jackula
1743
Sep 21, 2017
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vampyI was about to say this won't have enough power for your HD650, but you made a good choice there. The LC will have no power issues and will sound far better than anything under $300. The SDAC probably won't do it justice though.
AdrianL
123
Sep 21, 2017
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aditxmani have dac-x6 too. how does it drive the HD650? did you modify the jumpers in dac-x6 to high gain?
aditxman
34
Sep 21, 2017
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AdrianLno need it the high gain with currently standart dac -x6 will powerful enough to hd650 i just need adjust 10 clock volume knob is loud enough
Jackula
1743
Sep 21, 2017
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TimmyfoxThe power is actually a bit short of what is required by the HD650. You need to factor in amplifier distortion and headroom to get the proper output power required, otherwise you're just going to get a less than optimal listening experience through them.
Timmyfox
14
Sep 22, 2017
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JackulaSo that's why my O2 + ODAC have been plenty for my pair of HD650 in the last 4 years?
I only need it at around 11-12 o'clock at low gain (1x) to get it plenty loud.
I only need it at around 11-12 o'clock at low gain (1x) to get it plenty loud.
Jackula
1743
Sep 22, 2017
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TimmyfoxVolume isn't everything.
I already explained this to someone else today, I don't exactly want to explain it again - sorry! If you're interested head on to: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-sdac-dac-amp/talk/1821317
It will talk about the maths and explain why the O2 still struggle with a HD600, 650 and 800.
I already explained this to someone else today, I don't exactly want to explain it again - sorry! If you're interested head on to: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-sdac-dac-amp/talk/1821317
It will talk about the maths and explain why the O2 still struggle with a HD600, 650 and 800.
Timmyfox
14
Sep 22, 2017
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JackulaOk. Let's get into the specifics of it:
The HD650, at 300 Ohm & 103 dB/mW, only needs around 16mW (2.2V, 7.3mA) to reach 115 dB SPL and 50mW (3.9V, 13mA) to reach 120 dB SPL. These are all plenty within the O2's capabilities as it can do up to 7V without clipping and up to 88mW at 600 Ohm which is twice the impedance.
HD800 (which I also own) is even easier to drive having the same impedance rating yet slightly better efficiency. These thus need less power.
But maybe you missed that portion of high school physics? :)
The HD650, at 300 Ohm & 103 dB/mW, only needs around 16mW (2.2V, 7.3mA) to reach 115 dB SPL and 50mW (3.9V, 13mA) to reach 120 dB SPL. These are all plenty within the O2's capabilities as it can do up to 7V without clipping and up to 88mW at 600 Ohm which is twice the impedance.
HD800 (which I also own) is even easier to drive having the same impedance rating yet slightly better efficiency. These thus need less power.
But maybe you missed that portion of high school physics? :)
Jackula
1743
Sep 22, 2017
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TimmyfoxHere we go again.
The HD650 are not 103dB/mW, they are 103dB/V. They need 63mW to hit reference level at 1khz, they need 105mW to hit reference level at peak impedance in the midbass. Look carefully at the O2 specs, this is close to peak output. Yes, you can hit reference level on the O2, but you also get peak distortion.
Did you even read my calculations? The HD800 (which I also own) are even worse, they hit 640 ohms peak. They are not more efficient, they are 102dB/V and you need 66mW to reach the same volumes at 1khz.
The HD650 are not 103dB/mW, they are 103dB/V. They need 63mW to hit reference level at 1khz, they need 105mW to hit reference level at peak impedance in the midbass. Look carefully at the O2 specs, this is close to peak output. Yes, you can hit reference level on the O2, but you also get peak distortion.
Did you even read my calculations? The HD800 (which I also own) are even worse, they hit 640 ohms peak. They are not more efficient, they are 102dB/V and you need 66mW to reach the same volumes at 1khz.
Timmyfox
14
Sep 22, 2017
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JackulaPlease share your source on it being dB/V.
I might add that the designer of the O2 himself used it as one of his reference headphones whilst designing the O2 and stated that the HD650 is well within the capabilities of the O2 and that they get near the threshold of pain already at 2.5Vrms.
I can back this up since upping the volume dial to the max at 1X gain (2.1Vrms) is already too loud by my standards.
I might add that the designer of the O2 himself used it as one of his reference headphones whilst designing the O2 and stated that the HD650 is well within the capabilities of the O2 and that they get near the threshold of pain already at 2.5Vrms.
I can back this up since upping the volume dial to the max at 1X gain (2.1Vrms) is already too loud by my standards.
Jackula
1743
Sep 22, 2017
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TimmyfoxThe guy who designed the O2 is Nwavguy. Check his blog, you'll find confirmation of sensitivity /V. Also googling will give you the same answer. Believe what you want to, clearly you're more interested in being right than learning something.
Timmyfox
14
Sep 22, 2017
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JackulaGoogling gives me more people suggesting 103 dB/mW so I dunno about that. But sure, assuming it's true that still means it's well within the capabilities of the O2 assuming you don't want to go insane and kill your ears.
Regardless, considering I get a comfortable loudness level with my O2 with the volume dial barely even halfway (1X gain, DAC output being 2.1V) I think it should be plenty fine enough to power them.
Also yes, Nwavguy, the same guy who said this: "because the HD650 is near the threshold of pain at about 2.5 Vrms" and " The HD650 needs about 2.5 Vrms for 110 dB peak SPL." (in the comments here: http://nwavguy.blogspot.se/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html?showComment=1316651902158#c2530932942666858374)
This is more than enough if you ask me. And I recall he also stated at one point that the HD650 were amongst his favorite pair of headphones.
Regardless, considering I get a comfortable loudness level with my O2 with the volume dial barely even halfway (1X gain, DAC output being 2.1V) I think it should be plenty fine enough to power them.
Also yes, Nwavguy, the same guy who said this: "because the HD650 is near the threshold of pain at about 2.5 Vrms" and " The HD650 needs about 2.5 Vrms for 110 dB peak SPL." (in the comments here: http://nwavguy.blogspot.se/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html?showComment=1316651902158#c2530932942666858374)
This is more than enough if you ask me. And I recall he also stated at one point that the HD650 were amongst his favorite pair of headphones.
FirstnameBasis
4
Sep 22, 2017
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TimmyfoxThe HD650 is 97/mW, same as HD600, they have the same drivers, the only difference between them is the material of the housing. Re-read what Jakula was saying about distortion and you'll see what he means by it.
ArThoiD
8
Sep 25, 2017
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vampyMy brother has the O2+ODAC combo from JDS and they sound incredible paired with the HD 650. Best think I've ever listened to.
I joined the HD 6XX and now this one. It's a no brainer.
I don't give a shit about all the mathematics and "won't have enough power" bullshit, what matters is how they sound to you in the end. Audiophile snobs should calm down and stop trying to tell people they must spend 500€ on an AMP or they are buying shit.
I joined the HD 6XX and now this one. It's a no brainer.
I don't give a shit about all the mathematics and "won't have enough power" bullshit, what matters is how they sound to you in the end. Audiophile snobs should calm down and stop trying to tell people they must spend 500€ on an AMP or they are buying shit.
GrantmanNZ
11
Dec 10, 2018
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GrantmanNZIn absence of @vampy reply, I decided to get the Grace SDAC + JDS Atom and can say that, yes, audio is significantly improved over the dac-x6. Yes X6 improved lows over onboard, but was not crisp and treble lacking. It was a bit 'muddy', and this is even more evident upon using the SDAC + Atom.
The X6 is amazing for the money really, as an audio device in general. But my onboard had better mids and highs. You do get signficantly better audio when you spend 3x more (which you'd certainly hope).
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Meanwhile I orderd the chinese dac+amp dac-x6.
Will I hear a upgrade with the sdac and o2???
I have the HD650.