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Typhoon859
141
Jul 24, 2017
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Anybody here with a good amount of analytical listening experience who owns both the 6XX's and the 650's and can definitively say that blind testing them they sound exactly the same? Not to bias anyone's answer, and I'm not saying how it should or shouldn't be, but I actually would like it if that weren't the case. What I actually wish for are a pair of cans closer to like the sound of the 600's but with the higher frequencies more attenuated (in a way which sounds natural - not just dampened, for example).
Cokeman
1971
Jul 24, 2017
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Typhoon859It has been confirmed by Sennheiser themselves that nothing has been altered to these besides the paint color.
Typhoon859
141
Jul 24, 2017
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CokemanHmm, hard to believe. I know that's what it says in the description, but if they really didn't sacrifice anything in terms of the quality of any parts or the production method, then of course it would be the same. I care less about Sennheiser themselves than I do someone directly putting that to the test.
Cokeman
1971
Jul 24, 2017
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Typhoon859I have watched many reviews and no one has said anything about the materials or sound quality.
Cokeman
1971
Jul 24, 2017
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Typhoon859I meant no one has mentioned that anything has changed. They are the same as 650s
Typhoon859
141
Jul 24, 2017
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CokemanNo one mentioning that something has changed or them sounding in any way different is not the same as someone explicitly and definitively saying that they sound exactly the same. Too often with headphones were they "exactly the same" but did have significant enough differences in the end.
Cokeman
1971
Jul 24, 2017
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Typhoon859Think what you want man. I couldn't have made it more clear. These are HD 650s with a different paint job PERIOD If you want to think differently miss out on this great deal.
Typhoon859
141
Jul 24, 2017
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xLawI guess I will, though all these guys know nothing about audio. I mean, you know my question; if you watched it and you're suggesting he commented on this, what was the verdict?
Cokeman
1971
Jul 24, 2017
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Typhoon859Linus concluded exactly what I told you. He was the person who got the official statement from Sennheiser.
Typhoon859
141
Jul 24, 2017
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CokemanI'm not thinking "what I want". How was what I said not clear? I'm not trying to convince you personally of anything so there's no need to conclude on such a note. However, it's also not a matter of just what you think based on what was said. It's a matter of it being tested; that's all, and that's what I was looking for with my original question.
Typhoon859
141
Jul 24, 2017
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CokemanAh, I see, so he didn't officially compare them directly then. Well, so that's why I can't use that.
Cokeman
1971
Jul 24, 2017
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Typhoon859You are pushing this dude. Now after the first run of 5000 don't you think if these were different than the 650s that people would of made a huge backlash?
Typhoon859
141
Jul 24, 2017
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CokemanI'm not pushing anything. That's true of any other popular headphone that this was the case with. People don't do anything because they don't have the analytical skills to be able to tell. Close enough is good enough, especially for $200. If anything, people would want to preserve their bragging rights and turn a blind eye to any differences, that is if you want to be looking at the real world and taking human psychology into account (that's provably been the case over and over again).
You may very well be right. I'm looking for real confirmation though. None of this changes the possible reality of what I've said. It's not my imagination that's at work here which I'm trying to push. I'm not sure why you have issue showing, or with others expressing, possible doubt.
My submission is that I don't know. I want to know for sure and you don't know "for sure" any more than I do. What's wrong with me looking for confirmation beyond that? We live in a capitalist system. Taking people's word is naive given why there would be any value for the person you're making most any transaction with in the first place. A company's word means nothing. If it weren't true, they can easily cover whatever it was by saying that they just meant that the design was actually the same, but there may be some other variability for x number of reasons in the end.
You may very well be right. I'm looking for real confirmation though. None of this changes the possible reality of what I've said. It's not my imagination that's at work here which I'm trying to push. I'm not sure why you have issue showing, or with others expressing, possible doubt.
My submission is that I don't know. I want to know for sure and you don't know "for sure" any more than I do. What's wrong with me looking for confirmation beyond that? We live in a capitalist system. Taking people's word is naive given why there would be any value for the person you're making most any transaction with in the first place. A company's word means nothing. If it weren't true, they can easily cover whatever it was by saying that they just meant that the design was actually the same, but there may be some other variability for x number of reasons in the end.
Typhoon859
141
Jul 24, 2017
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fsonicAlright, well that's good enough for me. Would be cool to see if anyone else made measurements of both.
It still wasn't definitive, but I guess it would be safe to say they sound similar enough where someone like me would probably want to make whatever further necessary modifications. Given how much I WASN'T a fan of the 650's when I tried them however, I'm skeptical about those mods fixing all the perceived issues.
It still wasn't definitive, but I guess it would be safe to say they sound similar enough where someone like me would probably want to make whatever further necessary modifications. Given how much I WASN'T a fan of the 650's when I tried them however, I'm skeptical about those mods fixing all the perceived issues.
Typhoon859
141
Jul 24, 2017
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CokemanPossibly, and accidentally, but not logically, if that's what this was for you. Nothing to gloat about. And even if there was, who does this besides a stupid child? I never even said anything to the contrary - just literally asked the question which you weren't answering.
Cokeman
1971
Jul 24, 2017
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Typhoon859Because you were being insane. If you worry about stuff like this you have some problems dude, go see a doctor or something to get some medicine to fix it,
Typhoon859
141
Jul 24, 2017
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CokemanNow you're unnecessarily escalating this even more. I mean, I can surely choose to disengage at this point rather than responding in kind, which I guess I will after this last ditch effort, but I'm sorry that you can't see things from more than just your perspective. The threshold for the level of intricacy or nuance in looking into something based on need doesn't end with you (and based on this conversation, probably never has).
How about let me be specific. I was looking into these headphones for professional audio applications - mainly mixing. By your definition alone, insane would also be all the people on that forum (who's reviews and investigation into the matter you used to mindlessly gloat) that spent the time analyzing these headphones, going in such "crazy" depth, like going as far as producing measurements in graphs, and gasp, taking the headphones apart and modding them by taking like quarter size pieces of the foam out and filling in areas with dynamat, claiming that by no means this may actually be exhaustive of what's out there and can be done. Man, these crazy obsessive people. They should ALL see a doctor and get a life. For that matter, so should any scientist, especially those with higher IQ's. They all fit quite nicely into your projection of insanity.
How about let me be specific. I was looking into these headphones for professional audio applications - mainly mixing. By your definition alone, insane would also be all the people on that forum (who's reviews and investigation into the matter you used to mindlessly gloat) that spent the time analyzing these headphones, going in such "crazy" depth, like going as far as producing measurements in graphs, and gasp, taking the headphones apart and modding them by taking like quarter size pieces of the foam out and filling in areas with dynamat, claiming that by no means this may actually be exhaustive of what's out there and can be done. Man, these crazy obsessive people. They should ALL see a doctor and get a life. For that matter, so should any scientist, especially those with higher IQ's. They all fit quite nicely into your projection of insanity.
Cokeman
1971
Jul 24, 2017
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Typhoon859You are proving my point by typing this whole explaination out. But anyway to change the subject, these are not good mixing headphones look for something else for that kind of work.
Cokeman
1971
Jul 24, 2017
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Typhoon859Also please note all the upvotes I got on my responses calling you crazy. I’m apparently not the only one who thinks this.
Typhoon859
141
Jul 24, 2017
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CokemanDidn't call me insane up until now, but okay; noting what you mentioned, it says absolutely nothing and was to be expected (people are generally not very critical, as is the cultural norm); hiding behind the safety of popular opinion says nothing of the logic behind what's being expressed and certainly is in no way an argument (further keeping in mind that the majority of people who listen to music or would care to look into headphones, as evidenced by their popularity, would also agree with you if you said Justin Bieber and Nicki Minaj were really good artists); and finally, no, the reason for the length is due to the extent of how much is wrong in what you're saying. It proves nothing besides you closing your eyes and saying "la la la la la" in response.
As a side note, people side with and upvote that which they would already be thinking in the first place. They weren't looking through our conversation carefully reading what's been said. I can guarantee you they simply went right over my responses because they don't care and it would be irrelevant to them. It's not the same as having an open debate about a subject people are contending with which they expressly came to listen and deliberate on.
As for these not being good mixing headphones, people tout them as being one of the absolute best for this all the time actually. I partly agree (at least with the 600's) for imaging, but that's not an inherently true statement, even though as stated, I would otherwise largely agree with it. My point was that, for my purposes, there's a much greater demand for accuracy and that's precisely (and quite simply) what I further wanted to investigate and therefore inquired about. You're the one who made all this into a big deal.
As a side note, people side with and upvote that which they would already be thinking in the first place. They weren't looking through our conversation carefully reading what's been said. I can guarantee you they simply went right over my responses because they don't care and it would be irrelevant to them. It's not the same as having an open debate about a subject people are contending with which they expressly came to listen and deliberate on.
As for these not being good mixing headphones, people tout them as being one of the absolute best for this all the time actually. I partly agree (at least with the 600's) for imaging, but that's not an inherently true statement, even though as stated, I would otherwise largely agree with it. My point was that, for my purposes, there's a much greater demand for accuracy and that's precisely (and quite simply) what I further wanted to investigate and therefore inquired about. You're the one who made all this into a big deal.
Amafan
215
Jul 25, 2017
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Typhoon859Hi. I understand your trepidation and need to understand what you are buying. Most of the people are looking at this drop as a route to get a nice set of cans at a bargain price. I, for one, am not an audiophile, but I play one on television (Joke). I just want to have a decent set of headphones for when I'm stuck at my desk and want to hear some music while I'm working.
Anyway, my point is that you wanted something very specific and after lots of chatter someone finally pointed to a helpful review. I'm not sure why people seem so harsh. Anyway, I hope you enjoy your music system. I know I will.
Anyway, my point is that you wanted something very specific and after lots of chatter someone finally pointed to a helpful review. I'm not sure why people seem so harsh. Anyway, I hope you enjoy your music system. I know I will.
Typhoon859
141
Jul 25, 2017
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AmafanWell, mostly what I wanted to specifically know was asked from the start and as you mentioned, in that review, I guess I got my answer. Technically, this whole thing shouldn't have been anything more than a single link response. Tbqh, I figured that would be the case and made the original post just quickly upon having dropped by here. I'm not surprised by the outcome - just the degree to which it went. If I suspected this, I simply would have ignored and stopped responding after the first exchange (responding in a way with that purpose in mind).
What I'm looking for are essentially neutral headphones which don't bias the music in any particular way, making no kind of production on any track consistently unpleasant or otherwise resulting in a fatiguing listening experience in time. I technically have and found these headphones: the Fischer Audio Fa-003 Ti. For $200, I'd much rather get a pair of those tbh rather than a pair of 650's. They only just require a bit of bass boost which most any FiiO amp would be sufficient in providing (they have excellent low frequency response in every other respect). I like the smoothness of the HD 600's though, even if not their overall balance (especially with extended time listening), and was hoping maybe these were somehow different to the 650's in ways people who like the original wouldn't like but I perhaps would.
What I'm looking for are essentially neutral headphones which don't bias the music in any particular way, making no kind of production on any track consistently unpleasant or otherwise resulting in a fatiguing listening experience in time. I technically have and found these headphones: the Fischer Audio Fa-003 Ti. For $200, I'd much rather get a pair of those tbh rather than a pair of 650's. They only just require a bit of bass boost which most any FiiO amp would be sufficient in providing (they have excellent low frequency response in every other respect). I like the smoothness of the HD 600's though, even if not their overall balance (especially with extended time listening), and was hoping maybe these were somehow different to the 650's in ways people who like the original wouldn't like but I perhaps would.
Jackula
1743
Jul 27, 2017
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Typhoon859Dude, the FA-003 Ti is a rebadge of the Yoga CD880, which is a <$40 headphone. I do like the CD880, it's one of my favourite headphones in that class, and the 6XX is in a completely different class. Doing some bass boost isn't going to make a $40 sound like a $500 one. If you want a bigger bass, attenuating the higher frequencies will yield better results.
Typhoon859
141
Jul 27, 2017
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JackulaWtf? Bass boost to make it.. $40 like $500.. What?
Ok, firstly, I know every single version of that pair of headphones which exists. The cheapest it ever sold for, ACTUALLY plainly and simply rebranded (the Digitech ones), was $70. You can sometimes get the version with the looser headband (the NVX XPT100's) for $80 when they're on sale. The Brainwavz HM5's are the ones I'd really first start considering as I've found they're more consistent in quality and usually have (now) better pads. This is keeping in mind how unique these headphones are in having all these options. Not a single review you would see honestly comparing them from a technical standpoint to anything below $200+ headphones.
I say the Fischer Audio Fa-003 Ti's because they have reinforced drivers resulting in a smoother high frequency response, are generally made of better materials (like the arms which hold the cups which are metal and not prone to breaking), and come with hand-crafted sheepskin pads (or at least used to) and good quality pads in general. My point about bass boost had to do with balance. The HD 600's for example require a reduction in the high frequencies. That last statement you made is competely wrong and entirely circumstantial, as per the examples just given. This isn't the case with the headphones in question and doing one or the other yields competely different results in all cases but especially different headphones.
The Fischer Audio Fa-003 Ti's are not outclassed in every way by the Sennheiser 6XX series headphones and they otherwise have a better balance. I have all versions of the Sennheisers and they still hang on the headphone rack with these Yoga CD880's (which you rightly refer to them as) comfortably sit on my ears daily for all different uses.
To compare in terms of price like that is idiotic. Next time, make straw men and blow shit out your ass in another direction. If you actually had anything at all to offer from a knowledge standpoint, that is not at all how someone would've come at this.
Ok, firstly, I know every single version of that pair of headphones which exists. The cheapest it ever sold for, ACTUALLY plainly and simply rebranded (the Digitech ones), was $70. You can sometimes get the version with the looser headband (the NVX XPT100's) for $80 when they're on sale. The Brainwavz HM5's are the ones I'd really first start considering as I've found they're more consistent in quality and usually have (now) better pads. This is keeping in mind how unique these headphones are in having all these options. Not a single review you would see honestly comparing them from a technical standpoint to anything below $200+ headphones.
I say the Fischer Audio Fa-003 Ti's because they have reinforced drivers resulting in a smoother high frequency response, are generally made of better materials (like the arms which hold the cups which are metal and not prone to breaking), and come with hand-crafted sheepskin pads (or at least used to) and good quality pads in general. My point about bass boost had to do with balance. The HD 600's for example require a reduction in the high frequencies. That last statement you made is competely wrong and entirely circumstantial, as per the examples just given. This isn't the case with the headphones in question and doing one or the other yields competely different results in all cases but especially different headphones.
The Fischer Audio Fa-003 Ti's are not outclassed in every way by the Sennheiser 6XX series headphones and they otherwise have a better balance. I have all versions of the Sennheisers and they still hang on the headphone rack with these Yoga CD880's (which you rightly refer to them as) comfortably sit on my ears daily for all different uses.
To compare in terms of price like that is idiotic. Next time, make straw men and blow shit out your ass in another direction. If you actually had anything at all to offer from a knowledge standpoint, that is not at all how someone would've come at this.
Jackula
1743
Jul 27, 2017
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Typhoon859Sometimes I wonder why I give people like you the benefit of doubt.
Typhoon859
141
Jul 27, 2017
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JackulaSame. Should be obvious that there's no doubt to have against somebody when they make assertions based on some random factoid mixed with projected half-truths with otherwise no knowledge or understanding of the matter. I guess in my case it's less a matter of benefit of the doubt and more a matter of preventing the spreading of misinformation, at least when it can be helped and in my presence.
Good argument by the way. Ad hominem, which you feel is good enough in the presence of other idiots. Any actual point you want to present which addresses anything?
Good argument by the way. Ad hominem, which you feel is good enough in the presence of other idiots. Any actual point you want to present which addresses anything?
Typhoon859
141
Jul 27, 2017
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CokemanHey look, you crawled back out the second you see something derogatory thrown my way. Really need to cling to the comfort and maintain that false belief in the ignorant majority huh? If you're so convinced, why the need for reassurance?
Try to engage the critical half of your brain for a moment that humans are so gifted with (that and art being the only thing which sets us apart) instead of the monkey half. Not such a big deal to actually learn a bit more rather than assume a final view/position which needs to be preserved and defended at all costs - against any possible external influence.
Highlight a single insane/crazy thing I said and support it with an argument, that is, if you want to waste more time.
Try to engage the critical half of your brain for a moment that humans are so gifted with (that and art being the only thing which sets us apart) instead of the monkey half. Not such a big deal to actually learn a bit more rather than assume a final view/position which needs to be preserved and defended at all costs - against any possible external influence.
Highlight a single insane/crazy thing I said and support it with an argument, that is, if you want to waste more time.
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