Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX Headphones Discussions | Drop

Jan 17, 2018

Does the HD 6XX need a headphone amp, a DAC, or both?

Jan 17, 2018

keiidenPreferably yes, at least an amp To begin with. But they do not require a lot of power, typicaly no more than 25 to 30mw (some will disagree, saying that transient power required is over 200 or 300mw.... I don’t agree). They need at least 2v of voltage, preferably more, 6 to 7v at most, for good bass reproduction, but at 330 ohms they require very little current Output. For the DAC, I would say it is preferable to get a good external DAC, because most PCs have cheaply made sound cards with bottom of the line DACs. One exception I would note: if your source is an Apple product, such as a Macbook Pro, or even an iPhone or iPad, these units have better than average DACs from Wolfson or Cirrus Logic (Cirrus Logic now owns Wolfson), depending on models, and are well implemented and you could do with only an external amp using the internal DAC In your Apple unit. This said, if you have the $, it is preferable to get an external DAC and external Amp, or a combo. If you have Apple sources and a limited budget, I would recommend to get an external amp such as the 95$ Objective 2 (O2) or 99$ Magni 3 or a 199$ Aune X7 and get an external DAC later on... or get a combo if you have the funds (O2/OLDAC, O2/SDAC, Magni3/Modi Multibit or not, Aune X1s/X7, Cavalli amps with Grace SDAC, many others also available). If you are on a tiny budget, even the NX1s amp (without a DAC) at 35$ on Massdrop could do it for your HD6xx for a while. Also A very nice but not very powerful DAC/amp is the 199$ portable Dragonfly Red on a usb stick, which carries an very good Sabre 9016 DAC which may eventually be used in DAC mode with a more powerful separate headphone amp. The Dragonfly is not very powerful but generates enough 2.1v of voltage and drives the HD6xx quite nicely when you need a portable solution with a phone or iPad. By the way, the X1s at 199$ currently offered by Massdrop is a nice and cheap DAC/amp combo powerful enough (200mw in 300 ohms) to blow your ears out with the HD6xx. If the Massdrop O2-SDAC at 149$ ever returns, it is probably your best bang for buck to get an integrated DAC and Amp... hope it helps.

Jan 17, 2018

PeteMtlThanks, it helped. Probably going to get a Schiit stack and go from there. I'll take what you said into consideration.

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Jan 17, 2018

keiidenIt’s a good and safe choice, you cannot go wrong with these. You could then get the Magni3 first and get a Modi DAC later on if you are on a limited budget. For my part, I have a couple of HD6xx, and I own the Massdrop O2 desktop edition and a Massdrop O2-SDAC integrated combo and I also own a Dragonfly Red and a NX1s and I recommend all of them. I do not own the Schiit Stack but there are hundreds of people out there that own it and recommend it, so it’s a good choice.

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Jan 17, 2018

PeteMtlCool, I'll do some more research about them sometime. Thanks for the answers!

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Jan 17, 2018

keiidenEnjoy your HD6xx!

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kdelavega

Jan 18, 2018

keiidenTechnically you can use them without either but they're high impedance headphones so that's really not how you're supposed to use them. I use the Schiit Magni 3 and they do a great job powering them. I don't use a DAC for now, I'm just amplifying the source from my on-board sound card on the motherboard, but I'll probably upgrade to a DAC at some point. The jump from no amp to amp vs. amp to amp/DAC is probably going to be a lot smaller. DACs are really just to eliminate some potential noise from the signal processing being done so close to other computer components but I haven't noticed any noise from my signal.

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Jan 18, 2018

kdelavegaThanks, I was getting confused on the subject of DACs and if I needed one for my 6XX. I'll try using a Magni 3 and then go from there if there's any noise coming from the headphones.

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Jan 18, 2018

keiidenThe Schiit Magni 3 seems to be the best headphone amp deal around, given the law of diminishing returns. 99$ for such an amp is a steal for an amp that uses discreet components instead of op amps. The Massdrop O2 is also a very good buy, and uses good enough op amps. The O2 is supposed to be as neutral as you can get, while the Magni 3 is apparently just slightly warmer than neutral, with a slight touch of brightness in the top end. It’s a question of taste, both amps are exceptional for their price. Both amps can be purchased for 99$ or less. For the DACs it’s the same thing: AKM based DACs like the SDAC/OLDAC/ODAC/Schiit Modi are very close to neutral, while the ESS Sabre based DACs (using the 9010, 9016, 9018 Sabre dac chips) are apparently a tiny bit brighter In the top end. again a matter of taste. I wonder if the Sabre based DACs (like the Dragonfly Black and Red, the Aune X1s and many others) are maybe preferable to match the slightly high treble shy HD6xx? I can only comment on what I have tried, and the Dragonfly Red with its ESS 9016 DAC chip is musically a very good match to the Massdrop Sennheiser HD6xx. This doesn’t mean that the AKM based DACs are not fully capable to match the Senn’s musical qualities. In fact the Magni3/Modi stack is somewhat probably a good balance with a slightly warmer and at the same time brighter amp with a very neutral DAC. By the way, what is your current source/dac available? A computer sound card? What kind ? A portable player?

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Jan 18, 2018

PeteMtlI use the computer's sound card, something like "Realtek." I'll probably like warmer sound, so I'll buy the Magni 3 as an amp. Then I could buy a Modi 2 as a DAC.

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Jan 18, 2018

keiidenThe Realtek audio circuitry on sound cards is like the russian « Lada » in the car business, the cheapest « el cheapo » and very below par ever quality as you can ever get. In that case I would recommend to add the Modi DAC as soon as you may afford it. Enjoy your 6xx/Magni3/Modi combo, probably the best you may get for a 400$ all in cost.

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Jan 18, 2018

PeteMtlThank you for helping me. I understand a lot more. I'll enjoy my 6XX once It's shipped and delivered in March/April.

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Jan 18, 2018

keiidenWhy are they shipped so late?

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Jan 18, 2018

PeteMtlWhat do you think about an SMSL M6 DAC/AMP? Or should I go save with the O2 or Magni 3?

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Wolfman887

Jan 18, 2018

keiidenI don't think they do But a God O2 DAC/AMP would rely make your day.

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Jan 18, 2018

PatpaI do not have an opinion on it, since I don’t know the SMSL, never had a chance to try it, and I never took the time to read comments or reviews about it, so I frankly don’t know. However I own both the Massdrop O2 desktop standalone (without DAC) and the Massdrop O2-SDAC (with the DAC inside) and they are both worth my full recommendation. In the case of the Magni3, I don’t have one and never tried it myself but I read so many positive comments and reviews about it that I have no reserve to fully recommend it. Both the O2 (with the SDAC or OLDAC) and the Magni3 (with Modi2 as a DAC) are superb units that compete for the best bang for the buck award.

Jan 18, 2018

PatpaNo idea why they're shipped so late lol

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Jan 18, 2018

keiidenThey have to produce them at the Sennheiser’s Ireland Plant and ship them to Massdrop. They have to produce a specific number of them: 10000 of them. The delays have to do with the production scheduling in the Plant by Sennheiser. I guess Sennheider is not building a new dedicated assembly line just for these 10000 units. I’m pretty sure that the production schedule is shared with other headphones produced in the same Plant such as the HD600,HD650, Hd58x, Hd660S, HD25 and maybe other models that I’m not aware. The same goes for the parts that must be ordered from suppliers. These suppliers have to schedule the production of these parts together with other parts being produced for other models or even other manufacturers. All of this needs to be planned as any other project management. It takes time. If production of these could be done sooner, I’m sure it would. And depending on the total number of headphones to be produced in the end (maximum 10000, but about 9100 at this time ), maybe the delays could be shortened, only Massdrop and Sennheiser knows...

Jan 18, 2018

PeteMtlThanks a lot guys! But I still can´t decide whitch amp to get haha.. Now i try to decide between an Schiit Magni 3 amp, pared with an modi 2 DAC or the O2 with any DAC

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Jan 18, 2018

PatpaBoth solutions are good choices. Maybe you should wait until Massdrop redrops the O2-SDAC combo. 149$ - cheaper than the Schiit Stack combo - or if you are ready to buy now, the Aune X1s on Massdrop is everything you need in one box for 199$ - The schiit stack at roughly 200$ is also competitive, but 50$ more than the O2-SDAC combo if it ever comes back to Massdrop soon enough... The good news is that any of these choices is a good choice sonically.

Jan 18, 2018

PeteMtlThanks man! helps me out a lot.

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Jan 18, 2018

PeteMtlBut I like the idea that the O2 is neutral in sound and its mobility with some batteries.. don´t know about the other ones tough.

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Jan 18, 2018

PatpaBeware: the only O2 that can take batteries is the O2 without the DAC inside. On all O2 with DACs inside like the O2-SDAC, ODAC, and such, the DAC board is inserted in the area originally intended for the batteries. Therefore in those combos you cannot put any batteries in, there is no sockets nor space to do so. You are probably better off to buy the O2 without the integrated DAC (Massdrop has it on sale right now) and then add an outboard DAC such as the standalone SDAC from Massdrop (if it ever comes back on sale) or the OLDAC or ODAC standalones from JDSLabs or Mayflower manufacturers. In this case your O2 may use 2 NIMH batteries in the intended sockets inside the O2. Beware again: the O2 wasn’t designed to use and recharge lithium batteries, only NIMH 9 volt batteries that you may purchase at JDSLabs or on Amazon. Make sure they are 9 volts HIMH batteries, not lithium, not Nicads. Have fun with your O2 if you choose to buy it. It’s currently on sale at 95$ in Massdrop for the time being.

Jan 18, 2018

PeteMtlhmm i will think about it. Thanks a lot again!

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CosmicBeing

Jan 19, 2018

keiidenAt my job we have a few audiophiles and we did a few listening test between the akg7xx Senn. HD 600,hd6xx and HD 700. DAC/AMP fulla,O2 massdrop and e and schiit stack. All four can drive the 650 decently. The O2 and schiit stack drives the 650 well on high gain. The fulla 2 does a good job. If you put the fulla2 on max setting vs the O2 on low gain the dac on the fulla outshines it. A lot less distortation. I would suggest get the the HD650 if you will invest in a DAC/AMP and don't believe the hype if your not listening to classical music the full a2 is more than enough. If you are trying to kill your eardrums listening to classical get a setup with high gain. If you just want a great headset that can be driven anywhere get the HD 700 and you don't need DAC/AMP at all. As for sound that is so subjective. There are noticeable differences in the driver's between sennheiser and AKG. My ears believe the akg has less color than the sennheiser. But if you like warmth and close soundstage you will prefer Sennheiser over the AKG. If you want a more even sound then the AKG. I know fan boys will fry me but the HD 700 and akg or more a reference headphone than the 6xx. I hope that helps

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Jan 19, 2018

CosmicBeingAll is fine

JadMaktabi

Jan 21, 2018

PeteMtlWhich amp/dac combo should I get? Budget of 200$ max. Should I opt for the Magni Modi 3 or Fulla 2 or the O2 Odac?

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Jan 21, 2018

JadMaktabiHow many times have you sent this question?

JadMaktabi

Jan 21, 2018

PeteMtlTrying to get as many responses as possible. What's your take on the matter

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