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mattlach
16
Nov 29, 2016
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After setting my alarm for 5 minutes before the Drop going live, refreshing the page until it went live and then trying probably about 500 to 1000 times to get my order to go through Massdrops stampeded website, I lucked out and was able to get my order in right before the drop ended.
I am very eagerly awaiting the delivery of these! Maybe the fact that the drop completed so quickly will mean they ship a little bit earlier than originally expected?
So, anyway, how many of you who have ordered these plan on getting a balanced cable for them? Are there any good options at a decent price out there? Most of the aftermarket balanced cables for the HD650's seem grossly overpriced to me.
Nov 29, 2016
Sagar
5
Nov 29, 2016
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mattlachNoob question : What would a balanced cable do that the bundled one won't?
Nov 29, 2016
mattlach
16
Nov 29, 2016
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SagarGood question.
Balanced cables are usually used in professional recording settings where really long cables are needed. When they are really long , they are more susceptible to interference, so the balanced cabling really helps. It is questionable whether or not it makes much of a difference in the 3-4ft between your head and your amp though.
Now, what do they do for you with your headphones. Well, firstly, unless you have a balanced amp, absolutely nothing. You need a balanced amp to drive balanced headphones.
Secondly, most amps that offer both balanced and single ended outputs, provide more power in balanced mode. I'm not sure why this is, but if you look through spec pages you'll usually find it to be the case. Since the HD650's are generally considered to scale well with higher power, and higher quality amps, this can't hurt.
Thirdly, Some people claim they get more clarity with balanced cables, especially if your entire analogue pipeline (DAC--->AMP--->Headphones/Speakers) is balanced. This is in the realm of the more subjective, and may not be true unless you are a member of the anointed golden eared audiophile elite.
One aspect that is objectively verifiable is that balanced cables result in less "crosstalk". That is less of what belongs in the right channel will blend over to the left channel and vice versa. This is probably only noticible if crosstalk is atrociously bad though.
At least this is my understanding from reading up on it.
Why am I interested? Because I just so happen to be get an amp that has balanced outputs, and I figured "why not, I've never heard it before and I'm curious".
I'm not suggesting that it is vastly superior or anything like that.
Nov 29, 2016
Vizard424
47
Nov 29, 2016
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mattlachI would love to get a set of balanced cables for these but unfortunately I don't have a balanced amp...just recently purchased the Magni 2 Uber/Modi 2 Uber stack. Should've waited for the Jotunheim!!!
Nov 29, 2016
LIBY555
192
Nov 29, 2016
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mattlachThe trick was actually not to refresh the page unless you got an error page.. many people i know joined the drop and just watch the spinning wheel turn for an hour until they got in :-) when you've repeatedly did a refresh to the page after a few minutes you in fact was getting behind in line all over again..
Nov 29, 2016
iCeOL8TRAmnesia
132
Nov 29, 2016
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mattlachYour understanding is limited and obviously you have trouble reading forums supposedly balanced takes imaging from a 6 or 7 to a 10 so like 30% better imaging on a pair of good imaging headphones in a balanced wiring or prefab state. The reason balanced amps have more power with "the balanced jacks" that also have "single-ended jacks" is a "balanced" amp has 2 identical stereo amp boards and so in single it runs off only one board and in balanced it has twice as much power from 2 boards there is more that goes into it but this is the basic understanding anyone can figure out.
Nov 29, 2016
mattlach
16
Nov 29, 2016
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mattlachTrue but with summing you could technically make the single ended output as high as the balanced.
I'll fully admit, that while I'm an engineer, I am neither an audio, nor an electrical engineer, so the minute details of amplifier design are not that clear or even particularly interesting to me.
All that being said I feel you are exaggerating the impact of balanced cabling, just like how in many of the tube threads many people greatly exhaggerate the impact going from tube to tube.
It is no great secret that our hobby of audiophilia is one placebo effect, confirmation bias and pride in defending our expensive purchases subconsciously bias our opinions and even our experiences of what does and what doesn't sound good, that;'s why I always take the most exhaggerated reviews when people say things make a huge amount of difference, with a truckload of salt, and thus far it hasn't led me astray when I get to hear things for myself.
One big difficulty in comparing single ended and balanced outputs on the same amp/headphone is volume matching. Balanced will typically sound louder, and the human brain is biased to interpret louder as better in most cases, making it very difficult to make a good assessment.
Anyway, the reviews that I trust the most on the subject, that have used the same headphones on the same amp in balanced vs unbalanced and attempted to match the volume as much as possible have more ore less all concluded that there are small, subtle improvements, but not enough that it would be worthwhile to spend the money needed to replace a single ended amp and source if you already have a decent one.
Nov 29, 2016
FronMan
7
Nov 30, 2016
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iCeOL8TRAmnesiaObviously you have a hard time with it as well if half of your explanation is personally bashing the original poster. Then your support claim of "like 30% better" while claiming to have a basic understanding anyone can figure out, get some boots and a coat so you can feel big.
Nov 30, 2016
Vizard424
47
Nov 30, 2016
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mattlachBack to topic...does anyone know if there are tube amplifiers that have balanced outputs? That is not extremely high priced? Looking at like ~$500 max?? Or is that just a pipe dream? :P
Also does anyone know of a good balanced DAC as well? From what I can see the Jotunheim basically is the cheapest balanced DAC outputs (true balanced, with individual DACs per channel and not signal split >_>)
Nov 30, 2016
mattlach
16
Dec 1, 2016
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Vizard424Hmm. There is the Schiit Mjolnir 2, but it's $849...
I tried tubes with the Lyr 2, but didn't care for the experience, so I returned it and am going back to solid state and ordered a Jotunheim. It reviews very nicely
Dec 1, 2016
mattlach
16
Dec 1, 2016
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mattlachAs far as cabling goes, I bought a $20 set of Sennheiser replacement cables for the HD650 and a $4 Neutrik XLR plug, and I'm going to solder it on myself. No need to buy expensive audio jewelry cables :p
Plan to have the cable ready by the time they arrive.
Dec 1, 2016
iCeOL8TRAmnesia
132
Dec 1, 2016
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mattlachLOL you just espoused almost every version of what I have dubbed "Digital Infallibility Computer Weenie" logic. "Tubes all sound the same" "It probably just sounds louder so you think it sounds better" "Balanced Cabling does nothing its just louder" "Everything is placebo" "You have audiophile confirmation bias not I have Digital Infallibility dissent bias". Electrical components(tubes, capacitors) and wiring swaps or wiring configuration often have fairly audible differences that can be heard if A to B'd and they tend to be fairly dramatic. The difference between an iDSD and a Chord Hugo(fpga is better than off the shelf dacs more accuracy faster...) is audible but less than 10% and so of course upgrading to a whole other solution assuming both are good is never worth it from an economic standpoint but from an an audio enjoyment standpoint you will want both and that is what will win out in the end.
Really if you breakup enjoyment per song listening price and enjoyment plus all the movies you watch if you watch them through the dac then high priced gear could be considered fairly cheap when comparing to cheaper gear on a track by track basis(assuming you listen to thousands or 10s or thousands of tracks over the years or during the life of the gear).
Dec 1, 2016
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