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Showing 1 of 27 conversations about:
Massdrop Veil Wind Pants
Igor_K
26
Jan 5, 2019
I'm really exciting to see you are starting to make wind pants! It's really useful peace of equipment, and there are not many of them around.
But... I have some criticism if you do not mind. This pants does not look really "ultralight" for me, you are adding features which definitely increase weight and cost, and I doubt they are really useful. Actually I'd like to see pants similar to "Body Wrappers Ripstop Pants - 701" made out of your (very good!) fabric and priced at $40...
About waist drawcord... 701 pants has just elastic waist, and it is working really good (I do use 701 pants a lot, and no - not for dancing :-)). I see only one purpose of drawcord - to keep pants in place if somebody put something heavy into pocket. To avoid that I'd remove pockets as well (you can have pockets in your shorts).
Also I'm wondering about the purpose of that ankle zippers... Pants look like slim fit for me, you may not be able to put them on without removing trail runners even with that zippers... And even if you could do it - you pants will get really dirty inside (ask me how I know :-)), and then your leg will get dirty.
Now pocket packing... You always can pack pants into the leg, here is a video how to do it for jeans:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT_ri4O8sck
With wind pants you do not need to be that careful (just jam them with one lower leg sticking out and invert leg), I can easily do it in around 20 seconds...
emptym
66
Jan 5, 2019
Igor_KInteresting point re. Body Wrappers ripstop pants. I have a similar pair from Danskin that I've used for running, etc., since 1990, iirc. I agree with most of what you wrote about the details, but would keep the ankle zips, in part for ventilation.
(Edited)
kim.suarez
661
Outdoors & Ultralight Collaborations
Jan 5, 2019
Igor_KGreat suggestions! I'm going to do a deeper dive into your comments! Really appreciate you taking the time to map this out!
TortoiseThunder
141
Jan 6, 2019
Igor_KAnkle zippers are for boots...putting a pair of slim fit pants without them would require taking the boots off and this would not be fun in a couple different scenarios.
Greg2
86
Jan 6, 2019
Igor_KI’m pro-zipper if they go over trail runners. Easy on off is key for pants like this when backpacking.
Igor_K
26
Jan 7, 2019
Igor_KHello Everybody! I see a lot of pro-zipper comments, I decided to put my answer here...
When I was researching 701 pants before buying I saw a lot of people complaining about missing zippers and I had the same concerns, so I understand it. But in my use scenarios I do not need zippers (just stretchy elastic cuffs), moreover they will be "on the way". Of course I trust my own experience more then anything I read here, so I decided just to share it. YMMV and you may have different experience, so be it (that's why we have both hooded and hoodless down jackets - despite second one is obviously not as good as first :-)).
My purpose of wind pants is "warmth layer" in 2-season conditions, not active layer... I'm not putting them on and off a lot. I'm using it for two things: every morning at home for walking from home to fitness center and back (this is to keep my knees warm); and when hiking/backpacking when a stop for more than half hour or when I reach campsite (I have data point: I was comfortable wearing synthetic button up shirt / Rab Strata vest / Squamish windbreaker / Columbia Silver Ridge pants / 701 pants at 42F weather with 5MPH wind after sunset doing camp chores for about one hour - and without 701 pants I would be cold, most warmth in this combination was due to windbreaker and wind pants)...
I do not use 701 on the go because this is what my hiking shorts / pants are for (with the only one exception - I did use 701's in rainstorm over shorts and under rain skirt to have less water coming into my goretex socks). Moreover in two season conditions it is usually too hot to hike in 701 (100% too hot above 50F), and 701 fabric is at least TWICE more air permeable than Veil fabric (two layers of 701 is more air permeable in "darth vader test" then one layer of Veil jacket)... I do not think Veil pants will be comfortable for anything above 15 minute warm-up for me (I run hot), even with zippers open...
I do not use 701 for short stops because I'm fine with just jacket. I can see situation then pants are required for short stop, but I do not see wind pants appropriate in it (it should be far below freezing or freezing rain and you probably do alpine climbing, you need full side-zipper hardshell pants for that; or it can be some sport like weight lifting where you need to be really warm between exercises - but again fleece pants will serve you better).
Now about removing boots - there is a trick :-)... First thing I do when I reach campsite is I loose my laces, so my trail runners becomes slippers (this is to let my legs rest and to enter/exit my shelter quicker). Removing "slippers" is obviously more easy then pulling pants above them (with zippers or without).
Considering "fitness situation" - there is such thing as "speed laces", if you have them it is quicker (and more comfortable) to remove shoe then to pull pants above it... And if you do not have zipper on ankle - there is nothing to poke in your leg (I did have athletic pants with zippers - no more).
(Edited)
Greg2
86
Jan 8, 2019
Igor_KI have a slightly different usage case using these windpants as my only pair of pants on a trip.
I have a base layer for sleeping, a pair of liner shorts, and a pair of wind pants and that’s it. So I don’t like to hike in my base layer. In the morning I will start with the wind pants on until it warms up to be suitable for shorts.
Some days that is only 30 minutes until I am warmed up but usually its an hour or two.
So I see mine as a primary hiking layer in temps lower than about 55. For me (Canadian Rockies). This is a good portion of the morning. So I end up taking them off at least once in the morning and usually put it on at some point during the day again on a ridge and want to get on quickly during rain.
So so for me it’s worth the ounce. I like hearing about the sight differences in usage cases that change what is the optimal solution for each person
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