Massdrop Veil Wind Shellsearch
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Massdrop Veil Wind Shell

Massdrop Veil Wind Shell

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Stickied
Quick update - due to the clear popularity of the Midnight Blue and Autumn Maple colors, we've stopped offering the Cyan Blue as an option. Members who joined for the Cyan Blue can switch to another color anytime in the next 25 days (when the drop ends at end of Feb). Thank you! [added 2/2/18]
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Hello everyone,
We’re thrilled to present our newest Massdrop product: the Veil Wind Shell. At 2.7 ounces, it’s light and packs down small enough to always carry with you. Wind shells are a critical piece of nearly any outdoor lover's kit, whether you’re running, backpacking, day hiking, or mountain biking. So why doesn't everyone own or use a wind shell?
Not Breathable: The most popular wind shells have zero breathability, which means you'll sweat as soon as you start exercising, even during low-output activities like walking. This includes such jackets as the Patagonia Houdini and Mountain Hardwear Ghost Lite.
Look and Feel: The sweat-inducing fabrics most commonly used tend to feel plastic-y and are really shiny, which not everybody likes. I've frequently heard that they look and feel like you're wearing a garbage bag.
Price: Typically, wind shells cost between $90 and $140. For those of you who have and use your wind shell, the cost is usually worth it, despite the downsides (look, feel, breathability). But for any of you who haven't tried it out, the cost can seem unnecessarily high for what seems like a super simple item, and one that often is thought of only as an emergency piece.
The Benefit Isn't Obvious: The most common use case for a wind shell is that it is a just-in-case item—like if you get caught in a storm or cold front, this light, packable jacket will protect you just enough so you can get back to camp or your car. Runners often use a wind shell as a warm-up piece, and then stow it away for the rest of their run. But there are a multitude of other uses . . .
Well, we heard you, so we worked with the top mill to make a custom fabric that addresses these issues. Then, the jacket is made in the highest-quality factory with a design and fit that makes this an unbeatable all-around piece. We'll go into production as soon as the drop ends with delivery in Summer. So here it is:
Windproof and Breathable: It's challenging to make a fabric that is both breathable and windproof (so body humidity can get out but cold air can't get in). The fabric we've developed has some breathability, which means you'll stay comfortable longer. It extends the jacket’s use from being just an emergency item to being possible to wear all day long for low-intensity activities (like hiking and traveling) and still work well for biking and running.
Aesthetics: We worked with the mill to create a fabric that is high performance AND good looking/feeling. It took a lot of back-and-forth to create just the right fabric. We wanted to make this jacket comfortable feeling and good looking enough to wear around town, while commuting, and while traveling.
Highest Performance-to-Price Ratio: Thanks to our business model, smart sourcing, and working directly with the mill and manufacturer, we've been able to cut out all of the fat and give you the best bang for the buck anywhere.
An Essential Item: A great wind jacket protects you from the wind, of course, but also can be used for so much more. For low-activity sports, you can wear it all day long in mild weather while maintaining a comfortable body temperature. The roll-away hood makes this better for cycling, and I use it daily on my bike commute. It is significantly warmer than a long-sleeve base layer while being much lighter and more packable. It protects against mosquitoes. You can use it for light rain, like we see here in California. I carry a wind shell instead of a rain shell for 8 months of the year (note: this is not waterproof, but it'll resist precip better than a base layer). And it adds significant warmth when worn over a lightweight down jacket.*
A note on fit: This jacket has an athletic cut. If you generally wear medium, then a medium Veil will fit over a T-shirt or base layer. If you intend to wear it over a thicker fleece or down jacket, then go up one size. For reference, the model is 5’11”, 160 lbs, and always wears a medium in other brands. He is wearing a medium Veil over a thin fleece. In the future, we will strive to offer women’s sizes as well.

We are providing two ways to figure out the best fit for you: first is the jacket measurements, so you can compare to an existing jacket, and second is the recommended size for your body measurements.

Jacket Dimensions
User Body Measurements

I think you'll find that once you get the Veil, it'll become your go-to piece for so many of your adventures and daily errands. I know I have.
- Danny

* "Putting a windshirt over a hooded [down jacket] was a DRAMATIC system insulation improvement even without the added benefit of blocking the wind." - Richard Nisley, https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/86574/#post-2064835
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DannyMilks
Hi Danny,
Congratulations on an awesome product category for MD.
I have sent an email to partnerships​@massdrop.com not knowing how to reach you via email for possible collaboration opportunities.

Looking forward to hear back from you soon

Phil
Mr.P
Hi Phil! Sorry to just see this but I'm not sure I've received anything, unless Danny had replied to you before he left? Since he's not here anymore, you can reach me directly at kim.suarez@massdrop.com and I've love to chat projects!
Stickied
Hi everyone!
I wanted to jump in and give some more details on the technical aspects of the Veil fabric.
My name is Kim Suarez, and I am the Soft Goods Product Development Manager at Massdrop. I came to Massdrop 6 months ago after working for over 6 years in Product Development for major brands in the outdoor and denim space.
This fabric was developed in partnership with the mill OneChang in South Korea. They are experts when it comes to lightweight nylon fabrics in both downproof and highly breathable applications. Some of the companies they work with include The North Face, Patagonia, Columbia, and now Massdrop!
Our initial brief to OneChang was to find a lightweight nylon fabric that was windproof, durable, breathable, and had a DWR finish. This didn't exist within their off-shelf fabric library, so we began the 6-month process of developing a custom fabric together that would have all of these attributes.
This included hundreds of emails, phone calls, and back-and-forth discussions with their amazing team to land where we did for the Veil. They answered all of our questions and performed multiple tests to make sure we were on the right track.
Along with formal lab testing of this fabric, we passed samples out to key influencers in the trail running and ultralight space, and also did some informal testing ourselves. This included many miles of running in this jacket in heat, cold, and rain—Bay Area weather can be finicky, but great for testing products! A run on a particularly hot day led us to add an antibacterial finish to ensure odor is controlled during your high-output endeavors.
What we landed on in terms of basic fabric specs is below:
• 100% nylon
• 15d
• 31 gsm
• 11.2 CFM
• 5.5 lb average tear strength in warp/weft
• Antibacterial finish for odor control
We did formal lab testing at 10 home launders of the DWR finish, and it still remained at 95% of its original repellency. To answer MasterRo question in addition to what Danny has added, the DWR will diminish over time. This can be avoided to some extent with minimal washing and placing the jacket in low dryer settings for 15 minutes after washing. And, of course, you can apply a new coating yourself, with a product like Nikwax TX Direct spray-on water-repellent treatment, found at most outdoor stores.
If you really want to geek out on this fabric, see further details below:
• This fabric is silicone coated, which is better than PU coating for this type of product, as it permeates into the fabric and is lighter weight
• Semi-dull yarns were used to reduce the shine of the fabric and make it more relevant to everyday wear
• Nylon texture yarns were twisted with nylon filament yarns to ensure there was the right amount of texture to the fabric, while avoiding irritation and rubbing when next to the skin
• Very fine nylon filaments were used to create a durable fabric with a soft hand (for context, the denier of each filament is 1.176d versus silk at 1d)
Thanks for checking out the Veil! If you have any additional questions, please ask away!
Load 14 more comments
Man were the 2012-2014 era Houdini's great! Over 35cfm, comfy, and mint colours. Though I seem to remember reading on either BPL or local forums that the old coatings didn't meet BlueSign criteria?

Indeed I can't find Epic on the approved list of [manufacturers](https://www.bluesign.com/industry/manufacturers/references.html), unless they trade under a different name?

I sold my 2012 Houdini and it was one of the most comfortable windshells I've had, my current MontBell one is insanely light and has nice features like mesh armpits, but is useless once running as the material clings and wets out very quickly.

This material for the Massdrop veil looks to have a very similar breathability to current Houdini's (10-12cfm).
The Arcteryx Squamish 2014/5 had around 53 cfm breathability but I don't know if that was silicon encapsulated.
Telios
I heard a lot of good things about the Houdini of old, and not knowing that Patagonia would pull a hit and switch, I purchased one in 2015, it ended up not being what I thought I was ordering even though the name was the same. It was a much tighter weave at 3.5 cfm with an impermanent DWR, that wet out in just a few minutes. My way of thinking, is that, when a product is no longer the same product, they should change the name rather than using its good name to sell future products, and in this case, in my opinion, the 2015 Houdini is likely inferior to the original from what I read. A friend of mine was recently on course with his FKT attempt when his Houdini DWR failed. I suspect it was not the original Houdini. I called Patagonia and they noted that the 2015 Houdini DWR has to replenished. I remember reading some details about patent infringements but I did not get into it, the bottom line was, the Patagonia Houdini is not what it used to be.

To my knowledge, the military uses EPIC by Nextec. It stands to reason that silicone encapsulated nylon would last longer than coated nylons which is likely why the military specifies it in some of their apparel.
Can someone speak more about the breathability? I will be using this to backpack in the Rockie, with a 18lb base weight pack.

I have a silpoly (not breathable at all) rain jacket. Was looking at the Patagonia capilene thermal for wind, but this is much lighter.

Im hoping this would work!
I think this is a fantastic jacket! Any estimates as to when a women’s version will be made available? I am a petite woman (2p), and would swim in the XS men’s size given the sleeve length.
Question for massdrop. How come it takes 9 days to get something from you from new Jersey? And I can get stuff from Maine, New York, New Hampshire . Any where on the eastern sea board in 3 days
Tonygxd
I received this shell. Does like I thought xxl is good for guys who wear 48L suit size. Should be able to wear shirt and thermal under it needed. If you want thicker then order xxxl.
Still no response how it can take nearly 2 weeks by mail to receive this from new Jersey.
So I'm just a guy who wants a light jacket while riding his bike.

This has way too much technical stuff on a piece of clothing for me :P but based on what I've read, this thing isn't water-resistant on its own? There is some coating that wears off? Its also not water proof but "resistant"? Huh?

Due to shenanigans, I had a starter(?) brand jacket that was eaten by a campfire. I think this was similar: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Mens-Navy-Lightweight-Mesh-Lined-Windbreaker-Jacket-Size-Large-42-44-/163180714227

It repelled rain when it was drizzling without much issue. How does this compare?

Chairman_Wang
The wind pressure while riding a bike will allow any DWR coating to wet out and seep pretty quickly so if you want rain protection while riding then pick rain gear instead. The lighter pu-coated fabrics don't breathe well enough for high activity in moderate/warmer temps but can do ok when you are putting out less moisture from the inside, otherwise look at gore windstopper (currently allowed to be seam taped so it's effectively a very viable waterproof option with very high breathability), or the gore active shell...or the gore active 3-layer fabric type which does pretty well (harder to find now but still seems available in cycling and running brands). Any piece that has only a DWR coating is really just meant to repel light sprinkles, heavy mist, light snow, etc. but will eventually get soaked, some faster than others.
Stepbystep
Thanks for the explanation. Is there anything with this gore fabric (sounds bloody lol) on massdrop?

My old jacket also got drenched in the pouring rain/thunderstorms but held up fine during what I'd call normal rain. It didn't have exact detail like this but from pictures I think the material is similar. Will this be able to match?
Any ladies purchase this and have feedback on the sizing/fit?
I just received my Veil Wind Shell and I was very disappointed. I am 5'-7 1/2" and weigh 155#. The M was too small. guess I have another item to sell on Ebay.
dpnoll
wait... you can't return if it doesn't fit? eh?
Oh when will they make a wind shell for the huskier gentleman!!!!
Hi! Thanks, this looks like a super jacket. I had a few questions. What kind of DWR coating? Is it Nikwax? Does it have any PFCs/PFOAs? Do you have any data/numbers on the waterproofness/breathability?
Load 4 more comments
The coating is PFC free.
For waterproofness, this just has water repellency and water resistance testing, since this is not a waterproof fabric. No rain test was done on this fabric.
Water Repellency: Test standard of AATCC TM 22-2014 with results of 95 initial and 90 after 10x home launder.
Water Resistance: Test standard of AATCC TM 127-2014 with results of 420mm
Hope this helps!
kim.suarez
Thanks SO MUCH for super-fast and detailed replies Kim!! Very impressed.
It's quite breathable you would say?
Is it possible to apply a Nikwax coating to get this jacket waterproof? Or does it lack a "membrane" or such to be waterproof?