Massdrop Veil Wind Shellsearch
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Massdrop Veil Wind Shell

Massdrop Veil Wind Shell

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(31 reviews)
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Stickied
Quick update - due to the clear popularity of the Midnight Blue and Autumn Maple colors, we've stopped offering the Cyan Blue as an option. Members who joined for the Cyan Blue can switch to another color anytime in the next 25 days (when the drop ends at end of Feb). Thank you! [added 2/2/18] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone, We’re thrilled to present our newest Massdrop product: the Veil Wind Shell. At 2.7 ounces, it’s light and packs down small enough to always carry with you. Wind shells are a critical piece of nearly any outdoor lover's kit, whether you’re running, backpacking, day hiking, or mountain biking. So why doesn't everyone own or use a wind shell? Not Breathable: The most popular wind shells have zero breathability, which means you'll sweat as soon as you start exercising, even during low-output activities like walking. This includes such jackets as the Patagonia Houdini and Mountain Hardwear Ghost Lite. Look and Feel: The sweat-inducing fabrics most commonly used tend to feel plastic-y and are really shiny, which not everybody likes. I've frequently heard that they look and feel like you're wearing a garbage bag. Price: Typically, wind shells cost between $90 and $140. For those of you who have and use your wind shell, the cost is usually worth it, despite the downsides (look, feel, breathability). But for any of you who haven't tried it out, the cost can seem unnecessarily high for what seems like a super simple item, and one that often is thought of only as an emergency piece. The Benefit Isn't Obvious: The most common use case for a wind shell is that it is a just-in-case item—like if you get caught in a storm or cold front, this light, packable jacket will protect you just enough so you can get back to camp or your car. Runners often use a wind shell as a warm-up piece, and then stow it away for the rest of their run. But there are a multitude of other uses . . . Well, we heard you, so we worked with the top mill to make a custom fabric that addresses these issues. Then, the jacket is made in the highest-quality factory with a design and fit that makes this an unbeatable all-around piece. We'll go into production as soon as the drop ends with delivery in Summer. So here it is:
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Windproof and Breathable: It's challenging to make a fabric that is both breathable and windproof (so body humidity can get out but cold air can't get in). The fabric we've developed has some breathability, which means you'll stay comfortable longer. It extends the jacket’s use from being just an emergency item to being possible to wear all day long for low-intensity activities (like hiking and traveling) and still work well for biking and running. Aesthetics: We worked with the mill to create a fabric that is high performance AND good looking/feeling. It took a lot of back-and-forth to create just the right fabric. We wanted to make this jacket comfortable feeling and good looking enough to wear around town, while commuting, and while traveling. Highest Performance-to-Price Ratio: Thanks to our business model, smart sourcing, and working directly with the mill and manufacturer, we've been able to cut out all of the fat and give you the best bang for the buck anywhere. An Essential Item: A great wind jacket protects you from the wind, of course, but also can be used for so much more. For low-activity sports, you can wear it all day long in mild weather while maintaining a comfortable body temperature. The roll-away hood makes this better for cycling, and I use it daily on my bike commute. It is significantly warmer than a long-sleeve base layer while being much lighter and more packable. It protects against mosquitoes. You can use it for light rain, like we see here in California. I carry a wind shell instead of a rain shell for 8 months of the year (note: this is not waterproof, but it'll resist precip better than a base layer). And it adds significant warmth when worn over a lightweight down jacket.*
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A note on fit: This jacket has an athletic cut. If you generally wear medium, then a medium Veil will fit over a T-shirt or base layer. If you intend to wear it over a thicker fleece or down jacket, then go up one size. For reference, the model is 5’11”, 160 lbs, and always wears a medium in other brands. He is wearing a medium Veil over a thin fleece. In the future, we will strive to offer women’s sizes as well.
We are providing two ways to figure out the best fit for you: first is the jacket measurements, so you can compare to an existing jacket, and second is the recommended size for your body measurements.
Jacket Dimensions
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User Body Measurements
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I think you'll find that once you get the Veil, it'll become your go-to piece for so many of your adventures and daily errands. I know I have. - Danny
* "Putting a windshirt over a hooded [down jacket] was a DRAMATIC system insulation improvement even without the added benefit of blocking the wind." - Richard Nisley, https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/86574/#post-2064835
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DannyMilks
This looks awesome! Any chance you'll make a women's version? (or smaller unisex sizes)
csdf1
We did sample one and I'd love to make a Women's version. We're a bit stuck as we have high minimums on the production but not enough women interested. :( I'd buy one in a second!
Stickied
Hi everyone! I wanted to jump in and give some more details on the technical aspects of the Veil fabric. My name is Kim Suarez, and I am the Soft Goods Product Development Manager at Massdrop. I came to Massdrop 6 months ago after working for over 6 years in Product Development for major brands in the outdoor and denim space. This fabric was developed in partnership with the mill OneChang in South Korea. They are experts when it comes to lightweight nylon fabrics in both downproof and highly breathable applications. Some of the companies they work with include The North Face, Patagonia, Columbia, and now Massdrop! Our initial brief to OneChang was to find a lightweight nylon fabric that was windproof, durable, breathable, and had a DWR finish. This didn't exist within their off-shelf fabric library, so we began the 6-month process of developing a custom fabric together that would have all of these attributes. This included hundreds of emails, phone calls, and back-and-forth discussions with their amazing team to land where we did for the Veil. They answered all of our questions and performed multiple tests to make sure we were on the right track. Along with formal lab testing of this fabric, we passed samples out to key influencers in the trail running and ultralight space, and also did some informal testing ourselves. This included many miles of running in this jacket in heat, cold, and rain—Bay Area weather can be finicky, but great for testing products! A run on a particularly hot day led us to add an antibacterial finish to ensure odor is controlled during your high-output endeavors. What we landed on in terms of basic fabric specs is below: • 100% nylon • 15d • 31 gsm • 11.2 CFM • 5.5 lb average tear strength in warp/weft • Antibacterial finish for odor control We did formal lab testing at 10 home launders of the DWR finish, and it still remained at 95% of its original repellency. To answer @MasterRo question in addition to what Danny has added, the DWR will diminish over time. This can be avoided to some extent with minimal washing and placing the jacket in low dryer settings for 15 minutes after washing. And, of course, you can apply a new coating yourself, with a product like Nikwax TX Direct spray-on water-repellent treatment, found at most outdoor stores. If you really want to geek out on this fabric, see further details below: • This fabric is silicone coated, which is better than PU coating for this type of product, as it permeates into the fabric and is lighter weight • Semi-dull yarns were used to reduce the shine of the fabric and make it more relevant to everyday wear • Nylon texture yarns were twisted with nylon filament yarns to ensure there was the right amount of texture to the fabric, while avoiding irritation and rubbing when next to the skin • Very fine nylon filaments were used to create a durable fabric with a soft hand (for context, the denier of each filament is 1.176d versus silk at 1d) Thanks for checking out the Veil! If you have any additional questions, please ask away!
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Man were the 2012-2014 era Houdini's great! Over 35cfm, comfy, and mint colours. Though I seem to remember reading on either BPL or local forums that the old coatings didn't meet BlueSign criteria?
Indeed I can't find Epic on the approved list of [manufacturers](https://www.bluesign.com/industry/manufacturers/references.html), unless they trade under a different name?
I sold my 2012 Houdini and it was one of the most comfortable windshells I've had, my current MontBell one is insanely light and has nice features like mesh armpits, but is useless once running as the material clings and wets out very quickly.
This material for the Massdrop veil looks to have a very similar breathability to current Houdini's (10-12cfm). The Arcteryx Squamish 2014/5 had around 53 cfm breathability but I don't know if that was silicon encapsulated.
Telios
I heard a lot of good things about the Houdini of old, and not knowing that Patagonia would pull a hit and switch, I purchased one in 2015, it ended up not being what I thought I was ordering even though the name was the same. It was a much tighter weave at 3.5 cfm with an impermanent DWR, that wet out in just a few minutes. My way of thinking, is that, when a product is no longer the same product, they should change the name rather than using its good name to sell future products, and in this case, in my opinion, the 2015 Houdini is likely inferior to the original from what I read. A friend of mine was recently on course with his FKT attempt when his Houdini DWR failed. I suspect it was not the original Houdini. I called Patagonia and they noted that the 2015 Houdini DWR has to replenished. I remember reading some details about patent infringements but I did not get into it, the bottom line was, the Patagonia Houdini is not what it used to be.
To my knowledge, the military uses EPIC by Nextec. It stands to reason that silicone encapsulated nylon would last longer than coated nylons which is likely why the military specifies it in some of their apparel.
How about some different colors?
Is there any chance we could get a new version that uses a 35CFM fabric? (like 7D)? That's considered the optimal rating from army testing
The name sounds very similar to the Rab Windveil. Is the design related? I love that jacket but it's no longer made.
Please make this in white or red, with no hood, mesh pits (like the Marmot windshirts), and a two-way zipper. Those features would make it perfect for bicycling and running. I'd buy both colors.
I got mine yesterday I have Montbell Torrent Flier , U L Stretch , Windblast and Black Diamond Hoodie I think the Veil would be better if it had an adjustable elastic at the waist and hood The size is small so Iwould recommend ordering 1 size larger or 2 sizes to fit puffy jackets I will it try it climbing , but my car broke down yesterday.......ahhhhh
Any women here try this out and compare it to others?
My son and I are usually around the same adult size for outerwear and I'd like it to be useable for him as well as myself. I currently use Montbell's Tachyon, without hood, and while I like it the sizing is odd. He uses Frogg Toggs. I think I actually received an Asian medium instead of American sizing like I ordered from Montbell, it's basically a summer/spring windshirt now. I'd like to have one I can actually have fleece under and my son can wear while stationery during band shows, basketball warm-up, etc..
For reference; I'm typically a women's medium for outerwear I want to wear over light insulation and the boy is between a medium-large in adult mens. I'm 5'5 and fluctuate between 115-130 seasonally and he is 5'7 (for now..) and around 145ish.
Long story short; I'm torn between the medium and large for either of our body type and it seems (reviews) it runs incredibly small even when sizing accurately.
Anyone who can point to a return policy would make my anal decision making process much less stressful.
I am trying to contact customer service about shrunken 2 sizes smaller than advertised peice of junk. What UX designer school dropout decided that to choose an order I have to try and scroll through a seemly randomly ordered list of my orders. How to I search, just search or directly enter my order number?
maybe just do a strop payment through the credit card.
Can someone speak more about the breathability? I will be using this to backpack in the Rockie, with a 18lb base weight pack.
I have a silpoly (not breathable at all) rain jacket. Was looking at the Patagonia capilene thermal for wind, but this is much lighter.
Im hoping this would work!
dday1937
I don't have this jacket but I think it would work just great. 11 CFM breathability is kind of in the middle and that was a good choice for this. Some wind shells have near-zero and there are some fabrics that are 20+ which are a bit much if the wind is strong and temps are cool (or fog/mist that dampens it). It's no replacement for your sil-poly rain gear, but wind shells like this add tremendous functionality to your clothing system and can potentially save weight/bulk in your pack if you can perhaps remove some other item or change up your choices. Putting this over a t-shirt, slikweight long sleeve base layer, or light grid fleece/cap thermal covers almost the whole range and can work just as well in less windy cool/cold forests or when exposed without tree cover. If it's cold enough that the fleece+shell isn't enough, then it might be time to shed the shell and just wear a light puffy instead. I wanted to get in on this drop but held off to see what the finished products were like, and maybe I'm glad I did just from all the sizing complaints here. I think the length is too long, and I can't do the lycra hood trim, so I bought one of the new versions of the Montbell Tachyon and love it. Costs a bit more, but it's lighter and smaller, better hood and normal length for use while wearing a pack. I don't know what the CFM is for the Montbell now but it is effective and very much improved over the previous fabric they were using. They also have a model that is more comparable to the Veil, weightwise and pricewise. Wouldn't turn my nose up at this MD shell if I needed it and any wind shell is a great piece to have in the kit.
I think this is a fantastic jacket! Any estimates as to when a women’s version will be made available? I am a petite woman (2p), and would swim in the XS men’s size given the sleeve length.
Question for massdrop. How come it takes 9 days to get something from you from new Jersey? And I can get stuff from Maine, New York, New Hampshire . Any where on the eastern sea board in 3 days
Tonygxd
I received this shell. Does like I thought xxl is good for guys who wear 48L suit size. Should be able to wear shirt and thermal under it needed. If you want thicker then order xxxl. Still no response how it can take nearly 2 weeks by mail to receive this from new Jersey.
So I'm just a guy who wants a light jacket while riding his bike.
This has way too much technical stuff on a piece of clothing for me :P but based on what I've read, this thing isn't water-resistant on its own? There is some coating that wears off? Its also not water proof but "resistant"? Huh?
Due to shenanigans, I had a starter(?) brand jacket that was eaten by a campfire. I think this was similar: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Mens-Navy-Lightweight-Mesh-Lined-Windbreaker-Jacket-Size-Large-42-44-/163180714227
It repelled rain when it was drizzling without much issue. How does this compare?
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You already pointed out based on your research it isn't resistant, so what are you asking
fishbulb
Research? I don't own this. How am I going to research? I was just hoping to get opinions from people who have this. wtf is up with your passive aggressive tone man?
Any ladies purchase this and have feedback on the sizing/fit?
I just received my Veil Wind Shell and I was very disappointed. I am 5'-7 1/2" and weigh 155#. The M was too small. guess I have another item to sell on Ebay.
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dpnoll
What was too small about the jacket in a size medium? They list a 42" chest on that which should be plenty for someone 155lbs. (I'm about your size but 5'9 and was going to get the medium)
nquinn
It was just too tight in my shoulders. I ordered a L and if fits great. Go for the L.
Oh when will they make a wind shell for the huskier gentleman!!!!
Hi! Thanks, this looks like a super jacket. I had a few questions. What kind of DWR coating? Is it Nikwax? Does it have any PFCs/PFOAs? Do you have any data/numbers on the waterproofness/breathability?
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@metastart , I’d love the same answer. What say you Kim?
Don't waste your time or money trying to apply a coating to make this waterproof...just buy a piece with a wpb membrane or pu coating that is intended for rainwear. If you really wanted to do it, wash it a few times with normal laundry detergent to strip off the dwr coating, then apply a waterproofing product (not a dwr retreatment product) and let it dry thoroughly. The results won't be as dependable as a rain jacket when used on a garment (as opposed to a tent fly and such that these products are really intended for). Atsko and Grangers both make something decent...Nikwax does not. Also, don't get silicone sprays for this. Honestly though between time, money, and effectiveness, just buy a rain jacket. As for water resistance from a dwr, it's basically nothing...not how dwr's work. When numbers have been given on different products in the past they've been in the +/- 500mm range in a brief spray test, which is essentially nothing and will saturate in minutes and/or as soon as you apply any pressure or friction to the surface (just moving your arms, scraping brush on the trail, pack straps, etc). When dwr is new and in good shape, it's ok for mist and heavy fog, sometimes light snow for a little while, but if that's all there is on a garment you will be wet in short order.
Any chance we see pants made out of this material?
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I think the key is to keep it simple
elastic waste with drawcord key pocket on inside that doubles as stuffsack zippers legs to go over shoes.
I think the boot zippers are a key feature and worth the weight to make a functional product.
Greg2
Love the idea and I'm going to pursue this sample make with your suggestions. Really appreciate your thoughts!
Does the DWR require replenshing or it silicone encapsulated. At what wind speed was it tested at with its 11 CFM air permiability rating?
MasterRo
Checking now!
kim.suarez
It is silicone encapsulated. I cannot find the specific wind speed used. I think it’s a pressure value instead? Either way, here’s the specific test used and there’s documents online that outline the test procedures: ASTM D737. Hope that helps!
It is very strange that everyone has been complaining about the sizing of this Veil wind shell. When this drop was still open, there were numerous discussions about its similarity to the original Patagonia Houdini in breathability and weight. I immediately presumed that the fitting will also be similar.
A few weeks before I took delivery, I went to a brick-and-mortar to test-fit some gear in anticipation of purchasing my first selection of backpacking gear by this autumn; the medium Houdini fitted well. Having taken delivery of the Veil more recently, I can confirm that the Veil's sizing is extremely similar to the Houdini.
Just got mine a day ago, got it outside this morning to shoot a 360 video of, so folks can see what it looks like.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv7M7a5dMfU
I ordered the Large knowing that it ran a little small and this jacket is tight on my forearms. My FOREARMS! I can't remember the last time I put on something that was tight on my forearms! The way this thing is fitting, I feel like I should've sprung for a 2xl. What a sizing joke! I guess I'll be giving this to my 12 - year old nephew as this "adult Large" jacket is obviously Vietnam sizing!
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I sold the jacket to my brother, whom it works just fine for. I might be purchasing a larger size now that this jacket is available with shorter ship times. I was wearing a t-shirt when trying it on and was frustrated it didn't fit as I really liked the weight, material and feel of it.
Skier62
Thanks for letting me know! Sorry it did not work for you, glad it's working for your brother. If you want to reach out to me directly before purchasing, feel free to email me at kim.suarez@massdrop.com and I can do what I can to help make sure you are comfortable with your additional purchase, if you chose to order another size. We've got a full size set here now, so I can try and find an employee around the office to take some pictures on!
Seeing lots of comments about it running small. Has anyone measured it and compared against the size chart provided? The chart on the description lists garment size instead of chest size. Maybe that's throwing people off? A quick measurement from armpit to armpit on the jacket should let us know.
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My leather jacket is a 44 long. It's a pretty close fit, but leaves enough room for a little layering. I may be able to squeeze into a 42, but it would be tight and I think I'd have trouble in the shoulders. If you haven't tried an electric liner you really should. No need to size up for the winter when you can just wear a thin liner and crank up the heat. I've got a Warm & Safe waterproof liner that's great. Can wear it under perfed leather or mesh for some wind blocking even without turning it on.
I do have the beard, and I've had a life-long appreciation for flannel, but I'm pretty sure I'm too old to be a hipster :)
JeffG
I haven't considered winter electrical riding gear yet since I have not run accessory power connections to the instrument cluster. I've only just installed a battery tender cable to the pinion seat and am waiting to run an extension to the front (just too busy....).
In the meantime, I am acquiring multipurpose backpacking gear. Hopefully, this Veil jacket will prove useful as an additional wind-break for my non-perforated leather jackets. If my new layering acquisitions work well, then I might just sell 1 of 3 leather jackets to reduce my storage footprint.
Thanks for the tips; I'll look into it further for future riding gear.
EDIT: I often do work on coffee shop patios during Central Texas winters, so having efficient layers would be ideal. I wouldn't want to ride with an extension cord around my body like a cowboy with his lasso. :-D
Got mine today...the 2XL *barely* fits over a T-shirt (also 2XL). If you want another layer (fleece, etc) under this, go another size larger.....otherwise, you'll regret it......
I’m very disappointed in the fit of the jacket. I did as recommended based on the size chart provided. anytime I’m not able to test the item in person I use the size chart as a trusted guide ( I have never had an issue with size charts) to say the least this item does not fit me as described. It’s way too snug and can barely zip around my chest.
Way too small. I normally wear a size medium and ordered this in that size since the chest measurement is 42” and I am a 40”. Guess what? I cannot zip the chest closed and the arms do not even fit over my forearms. What a waste of my time and money.
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If the size doesn't match the information provided by Massdrop you can absolutely return it. I'd be surprised if wherever you live doesn't have at least enough consumer protection to allow returning an item that differs significantly from how it was advertised.
JeffG
Oh, I'm sure it matches. For the record, I did not consult the dimensions. It's just when you fit into a WOMENS size large in Columbia fleece, you shouldn't have to worry about getting an XL and barely being able to zip it.
Just got a shipping notice for mine!
I'm thinking the same as MasterRo. I've read that Patagonia Houdini is 5 cfm, and Airshed is 60 cfm. Airshed lets enough wind through that it makes you think twice about whether it will work well to keep warmth, but it is good at breathing when you're exerting, which is it's goal. 35 cfm might be about right for more breathing and wind protection. Only testing would tell.
No front sealable pockets were a deal-breaker for me and my partner. We'd have gone for it if there were pockets. We use pockets a lot and so to keep unzipping to get at pockets seems like more trouble than its worth. Pockets please. Even 4: two larger lower and 2 upper breast. you always need pockets for stuff.
plexus
Wasn't sure if this was clear, but there is a front sealable pocket on the chest. As for more pockets? Pockets are nice, for sure, but they add a lot of weight, complexity and cost, plus reduce the breathability factor significantly. We'd consider an iteration of this with lots of pockets but not likely to happen this year. Thanks for the post!
Hi Can you please add a photo of the autumn maple being worn? thanks