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nathaniel.nett
21
Apr 10, 2018
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What does this mean? "The blade is stamped with a rippling wave pattern reminiscent of historical damascus steel." Is the blade stamped with a pattern? How is this done? Is it a coating? What is stamped on it?
The blade is supposed to be "45 Layers of Rippled High-Performance Steel" so why does there need to be a stamped pattern? Done correctly there should be a pattern already. Am I missing something?
Apr 10, 2018
Wigdaddy
549
Apr 11, 2018
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nathaniel.nettApparently in the minds of the producers the natural pattern would be too subtle to be marketable to a wide enough consumer base. But this is foolishness. It reminds me of that old film, The Last Unicorn, where the gypsy witch cast a spell to put a fake horn on the real unicorn she captured for her zoo, because most of her customers could only see a horse.
It's a cheap move associated with cheap knives. It doesn't belong on a high-performance blade.
Apr 11, 2018
SantiagoDraco
611
Apr 12, 2018
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nathaniel.nettEdit: I went back and re-read the description. It does seem it's layered but also... stamped with a pattern (why you'd do this I have no idea, kind of overboard and unnatural) but this quote seems to confirm (but would be nice to know what the stamping is!):
"Made with a total of 45 layers—including 22 layers of SUS420 and nickel silver on each side and a core of AUS-10"
____________________ I JUST saw this question from you nathaniel.nett and I'm very glad you caught this and I sure do hope this doesn't mean what it apparently means. If the "pattern" is caused by a printing/stamping of the patter to "fake" it then I'm out. Totally deceiving. Knives like this have patterns from layering and faking it without being VERY clear is intentionally misleading and deceptive. I didn't catch this myself but it has me very concerned.
It doesn't matter if layering is better or worse... it matters if it's fake or real. If I wanted a knife that wasn't layered I can get tons of better knives for less money than this.
I'm hoping it's just a confusing phrase and that this is actually layered but we need to know.
Apr 12, 2018
Trump2016
0
Apr 24, 2018
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SantiagoDracoThe way I read it is that it is Damascus and that the stamped pattern is a texture thing that makes it appear 'hammer forged' but I claim no actual information.
Apr 24, 2018
JonasHeineman
5987
Apr 26, 2018
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nathaniel.nettOkay, this is a great question and it took me awhile to track down the answer. The earliest studies on this are from 2010, which in the world of steels is pretty recent - this is stuff that was only done in labs until recently, so the commercial applications are fairly new and still being studied. And all of this just to make you a knife! Amazing times we live in...
I'm going to do my best to translate the research that I've done into plain English, so bear with me - and by all means, if anyone who has a degree in physical sciences wants to jump in and correct/add on, please do...


The tool dye has a pattern on it, and hits the metal REALLY hard. The shock wave from each bump causes shock waves through the sheet - it's kinda like throwing pebbles in a pond, as opposed to debossing (where the pattern of the stamp is exactly what appears on the material being stamped).
The bond created is not flat, like on san mai or other laminated steels - it's wavy. So, when the layers are ground or blasted away, the somewhat random pattern is revealed. In this case, bead blasting is then done to finish it, which affects the layers of cladding differently, which gives the nickel silver a matte finish and the SUS420 a brighter finish.
From the Journal of Materials Processing Technology: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924013610000051
"Metallographic analysis on cross-sections shows a wavy interface morphology which is likely the result of an instability associated with jetting, which scours the surfaces clean during impact. The normalized period and amplitude of the undulations increase with increasing impact energy density. Microhardness testing results show the impact welded interface has a much greater hardness than the base metals. This can lead to weldments that have strengths equal to or greater than that of the weakest base material."
Here's a simulation of the impact welding process - https://youtu.be/vGvMGU4groY Here's a much longer video describing the science behind it - https://youtu.be/VasnKSj975w If you want to read even more - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277058325_Laser_Impact_Welding
Thanks for asking, I learned a lot and hope this is interesting for others!
Apr 26, 2018
JonasHeineman
5987
Apr 26, 2018
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WigdaddyActually, it's a fairly new and highly-advanced process of creating bonds between layers that are much stronger than traditional Damascus folding or even modern welding and lamination techniques. Check my reply to @nathaniel.nett . You are welcome to share your opinions in the Discussion, but we'd ask that you refrain from stating these opinion as facts, so that other members who may come here with genuine interest in learning about the products are not confused between the two. We'd appreciate your help in keeping the Massdrop community a place where members can exchange information freely and buy with confidence. Thanks.
Apr 26, 2018
Wigdaddy
549
Apr 26, 2018
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JonasHeinemanI was just going by the information Massdrop provided, Jonas. The description states that that the blade was "stamped with a rippling wave pattern reminiscent of historical damascus steel," and it turns out that this is not accurate. The pattern is not stamped on — it's rippling in the metal itself.
I'm sure we have all seen a great many imitation Damascus knives with imprinted patterns. Given the difficulty you described in finding the truth, few if any of us would be in a position to even guess that this might be something different.
That being said, thank you so much for taking the time to do this research and provide these facts to us! I've been collecting blades for nearly 40 years and have never come across such a process before. It's fascinating and makes me want to learn more. I might just have to buy one of these. ツ
Apr 26, 2018
SantiagoDraco
611
Apr 26, 2018
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JonasHeinemanThanks for the info. I think, however, that the basic question has not been answered, not in the spirit/intention of the question.
Is the Damascus pattern created by actual layering of the material (which is what "Damascus" means in this context) or is the pattern artificial (ie a stamp like a "rubber stamp") so that there is no layering. I think it's a pretty simple question that doesn't require a complex answer.
Apr 26, 2018
Wigdaddy
549
Apr 26, 2018
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SantiagoDracoNeither is correct. It is indeed a layered material, but the pattern is created by rippling in the metal due to the extremely high-impact welding of those layers. The pattern is natural — it just has a different origin. This is a new thing.
Apr 26, 2018
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