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JonasHeineman
5987
Jul 12, 2018
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Hey everyone,
I see some comments from members, it looks like you are seeing a few different issues with knives that have just been received so I will do my best to address everything here:
1) Sharpness: The samples that I tested were shaving sharp...I know this because I actually shaved a small patch of my arm with them. I test every knife we make before approving the shipment to customers. We randomly pull samples for testing, but that's not a guarantee that every blade is as sharp as our test units. However, if you think your knife should be sharper out of the box, Apogee Culinary does provide free lifetime sharpening. You can email them directly (sglassen@apogeeculinary.com) and they will send you a call tag so you can send it in.
2) Handle scuffs: These are basically impossible for us to assess or address without photos, and so far nobody has posted any. We have no reason to doubt what you're saying, but we also can't know if what you're seeing is normal our outside acceptable tolerances based just on these comments. Some of the scuffs could just be the natural pattern of the handle material. I haven't read specifically if anyone had washed them or was just reporting the look as they were delivered - a quick wash with soap and water may address some of these concerns. If there are manufacturing defects with the materials or finishing, they will be covered by our warranty.
3) Bent blades: We don't have a machine shop here, so we can do another visual inspection but we'd like to get some measurements on a larger sample size to check this out. I've asked for additional units to be pulled from the warehouse so that we can measure them. The processes of welding the blades to the bolsters and polishing them are both done by hand. With any knife, this can sometimes result in a less-than-perfect-90-degree final angle. Some slight variation (less than 1 degree) is not uncommon, but much more than that would be considered "out of spec" - we'll have to do some measuring before we can determine which is the case here. In addition to their offer of free lifetime sharpening, and regardless of how much the blade may be out of alignment, Apogee Culinary has a tool to straighten blades and has offered to do that for anyone who thinks theirs is out of alignment. You can email them directly (sglassen@apogeeculinary.com) and they will send you a call tag so you can send it in.
4) Quality Control: @Deaomega1214 reviewed over 200 pieces at the factory before they left the factory, and we reviewed a random sampling of five units before we approved shipment to members. We didn't see anything like what members are describing, but we're glad to take another look and we want to make sure everyone is happy. These blades are covered by our warranty, so if they are not up to spec you can send them in to Apogee Culinary to be touched up, or request an exchange or refund.
5) Warranty: So far, out of 1200+ orders, I see a total of two support tickets for any "Defective / Warranty Issues." Some people haven't received theirs yet, but so far this doesn't indicate a problem affecting the whole group. It would seem that some members who have commented also haven't yet filed support tickets for these issues...
You're certainly welcome to discuss any issues here, but we can't do anything to support your order unless you submit a help ticket - you can do that by going to the Transactions tab in your member profile and clicking the "Contact Support" button just below your order record for this item. https://www.massdrop.com/transactions
Our support team will ask for pictures so that we can understand the nature and seriousness of the problem, and also so that we can collect a record of the number and type of complaints. This will enable us to understand the scope of the problem and decide if it needs to be addressed internally for a handful of units (normal and minor) or with the vendor for the whole group (rare and serious).
I hope that addresses any concerns, we're glad to support any member who submits a ticket in getting warranty service. Massdrop and Apogee stand by the product and the warranty that covers it, and we'll make sure to address any issues you may have - please help us to do this by contacting support so we can refer to your order when responding.
Thanks, Jonas
CC: @harveyfnj @MJKelly @Moximo @Mandrake @Despoiler @tarachii @anteck7
UPDATED 7/19/18: We've been keeping track of how many Defective/Warranty support requests come in for this, and it's only 12 so far - that's less than 1%. Return rates for kitchen knives can often fall around 3%, so we feel confident in saying that it's not a widespread issue.
That being said, Apogee and Massdrop want to make sure that you're happy, and this knife is covered by warranty. If you did receive a knife that is blemished or has a blade which is off-center, then we'll be glad to take care of it - and you have options:
1) You can send your blade directly to Apogee for sharpening, or straightening. Just send an email to <sglassen@apogeeculinary.com> and let them know that you'd like to send it in and they will help you with shipping.
2) If you'd prefer a return or exchange, just go to the Transactions tab in your member profile and click "Contact Support" below your order record for this item. https://www.massdrop.com/transactions
Jul 12, 2018
Mandrake
31
Jul 12, 2018
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JonasHeinemanJonas, Fine note and I appreciate the commitment to this knife. To be fair I have to report that doing some of the things you suggested helped with a few of my problems, at least cosmetically. The discolorations on the handle were definitely residue from the final polishing that had been left in low places on the handle. Cleaning removed the residue, but the inconsistency in the handle is still there. In places there is a smooth resin as I would expect from G10. In others the glass matt is visible. The low places clearly there. I am not sure that any camera that I have and without a light box and many experimental exxposures...could I capture this. Even then, I doubt that you would see it displayed on a phone.
The blemishes on the blade were mostly removed with a good washing , application of tuff Glide, and a vigorous polishing with a fine microfiber cloth. Yes I know that the Tough Glide must be removed prior to using it for food prep. But I have found that the solvent and dry lube can help with stain removal . There is one scratch or tooling mark that is still there. Admittedly the knife has to be held under a good light at a specific angle to see it, but it is there. See above for problems with capturing it in a photo.
My problem is that I should not have ever had to go through this process. When I buy a mid -grade knife, much less a high end knife, (I will even apply this to a $50 knife rom Spyderco or the like) I expect it to be pretty much perfect. This one obviously was and still is not that. As to sharpness, mine is just OK. It will not shave arm hair let alone whittle it. It can push cut notebook paper but not phone book paper. Of the 5 knives I have purchased in the last year, it is the least sharp.
So I guess I am stuck. I can't photgraph the defects and your people want photos prior to letting me return the knife. I guess I am screwed in a few ways, because according to your note, I must be one of a very few that got something sub par.
Let's see as time goes on. In any case, the fact that anyone has this kind of complaint may motivate whoever is responsible to tighten up the pre packaging inspection process, were this to happen again in the future.
Jul 12, 2018
JonasHeineman
5987
Jul 13, 2018
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MandrakeThanks for the further description and thoughtful reply. I'd be interested to know what other four knives were sharper out of the box, just as a reference point. It's possible that you have more exacting standards, or that your knife wasn't as sharp - either way, we want you to be happy. If you contact our team, we'll be glad to arrange the sharpening, exchange, or refund. Perfect is a high bar to set, but we do strive for that with every product - regardless of the price. Thanks again for the detailed response, we'll do our best to make sure you have a knife that lives up to your expectations.
Jul 13, 2018
MJKelly
4
Jul 13, 2018
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JonasHeinemanDear Jonas: Thank you for your quick and professional reply and re-assurance that Mass Drop and Apogee will stand behind their warrantees. That is important. First, I agree with your assessment, that if there are only 7 "issues" on a run in excess of 1200 pieces, you are doing things well. Those small numbers can be attributed to the end of a Friday shift, when someone is hurrying to go home. If you find there are actually more issues than can be attributed to the end of the Friday shift, then someone should consider tightening up quality control. Second, As, I was one of those 7 with issues, and my issues were only fit and finish items, I took care of the issues myself including removing the sharp edge from the choil, sharpening the blade and cleaning the handle, in an hour or so. So, I will not be sending mine back for a replacement under warrantee. However, I am in a somewhat unique position as I have access to diamond abrasive grinding, polishing, and sharpening tools. I assume many do not. Third, I was, and still am disappointed that I had to clean up the fit and finish after I received the knife looking like a "second". Again, thank you for your quick reply. But, after my personal experience in this buy (I realize I am one of a minority, of customers receiving a poorly finished knife) I am still disappointed in the condition of the product sent to me by Mass Drop, and honestly am not a happy customer. Regards, Mike
Jul 13, 2018
Mandrake
31
Jul 13, 2018
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JonasHeinemanFirst I managed to get some pictures that I will try to upload. Second I have two Manix 2 Spyderco knives that I got recently one in S110 and one in Maxamet. Then there is the Benchmade in M390. Going back a little longer and more comparable would be two 210 mmGyoto knives from Richmond Artifex one in Aebl and one in M390. All were considerably sharper out of the box. My standards are high. I sharpen myself as a side business and pride myself in using the Wicked Edge system to produce mirror edges that will litterally split hairs. I don't expect that from a factory edge, but I do know what sharp is and how to determine different levels of sharpness. But afte 40 plus years of sharpening, I would hope that this would be the case.
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You can see in the last one that the end cap is scuffed as well as the G10. The scratches don't come across as well as the full resolution photos. I can eamil them to you if you would like.
I hope that this helps to understand where I am coming from on my statements.
Jul 13, 2018
Mandrake
31
Jul 13, 2018
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JonasHeinemanA final thought. I will not be returning the knife. I can sharpen it to my satisfaction. I can live with the cosmetic flaws. After all it has one job and that is to cut. The jury is out on how well it does that and whether the steel lives up to the hype (edge retention). It is more of a hassle than it is worth to return it and wait another long period to get something that I at least can use. The point is for others to take note and for you to hopefully lerans from this so it is better next time. This simply should not happen... Of course if you want to offer some Massdrop credits for the angst I have experienced... I will take it
:)
Jul 13, 2018
harveyfnj
83
Jul 13, 2018
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JonasHeinemanThank you for your response. Given your history on product shipments for this drop, I am uninclined to send my 4 knives back for sharpening. I have sharpened them the best I could with my limited skills and resources, and made them significantly sharper than when I received them (although surely not to proper factory specs) to where I am not embarrassed to give them as the gifts they were intended for. Even so, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Jul 13, 2018
harveyfnj
83
Jul 13, 2018
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JonasHeinemanFrom another reply i sent to a massdrop member: I would like assurances from massdrop that the steel that was promised was actually used. As I said, I have my doubts given the apparent softness of the blade, very noticeable when sharpening.
Jul 13, 2018
zzzaacchh
Jul 14, 2018
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JonasHeinemanI guess I'm not a knife expert or a metallurgist, because I'm pretty happy with it. For me, it's meant to cut meat and veggies and it did it with no problem.
Jul 14, 2018
harveyfnj
83
Jul 15, 2018
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MJKellyOnly 7 with issues? Where did that number come from? I have 4 knives, all dull as butter knives. You mean I’m half the “issues?” I think I have seen comments from at least several others with the same (and other) problems. I spent hours sharpening three of my knives as gifts - it was too embarrassing to gift such a useless knife after having hyped it. My knife sharpeners are not capable of putting a razor finish on the knives, so I today ordered some whetstones. Since the drop just recently completed, it remains to be seen whether you and I are a “minority.”
Jul 15, 2018
Mandrake
31
Jul 15, 2018
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harveyfnjLots of people that bought them do not frequent these discussions. From my knife sharpening business, I can tell you that the majority of people have no idea what a sharp knife even feels like. Some, like the gentleman above, seem to be afraid of a sharp knife. I have a caution and warning label on the cardboard sleeves that I return knives in... :) Since Jonas first posted we have not heard how many cutomer service tickets have been recieved. We probably never will. But from the sampling that we have seen I would think there are many more than 7 total.
Jul 15, 2018
johnvh
28
Jul 15, 2018
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JonasHeinemanWell the knife I received seems to have every one of the mentioned issues and them some. Some pictures to illustrate:
Scratching on the handle
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Blade is bent
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Blade is off center (you can also see the bent blade here)
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Back left side of the blade is only half finished. The rest is unfinished with a sharp edge.
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There is a dent on the front right side of the blade. This was a little hard to photograph but you can see it in the way the reflection distorts around the dent.

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On top of everything else the blade is completely dull. I can run my thumb up and down it without even risking a nick.
One or two of these issues I could perhaps live with (not a big deal to sharpen and polish the blade). But the off centering, bent blade, handle scratches and half finished back edge are not things I can fix myself. Overall it gives the impression that it was sloppily made and QA/QC is lacking.
I am going to open a support ticket to return the knife. I'm not sure if they have any spares to swap out, but even if they do I am unsure if I want to go that route in case I get another lemon.
Jul 15, 2018
ajorcajada
4
Jul 16, 2018
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johnvhMine has the bent blade and off centering. I already send a support ticket last Thursday and then got a late reply on Friday and the said that their currently experiencing a high volume of request which means that they have a lot of trouble on this knife
Jul 16, 2018
HttpCasey
18
Jul 16, 2018
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JonasHeinemanI didn't even bother to check the straightness when I pulled it out of the box. I was too excited to use it. However, the first thing I did was julienne some carrots and couldn't help but notice the knife steering itself off straight. Didn't think much of it but after reading the comments here I went and checked the straightness and it is off straight by a noticeable margin. Mine too was also not razor sharp out of the box. No matter how I tried it wouldn't take the hair off my forearm but it was sharp enough to use effectively. Like some others have addressed I guess I too am a tad concerned if we are both getting "seconds" or if the steel is even what we were told it would be.
My handle also has a small but noticeable gouge in it which I can add a picture of from mobile later. Also there are grind marks on the bolster of the knife just before the g10 handle.
Jul 16, 2018
JonasHeineman
5987
Jul 16, 2018
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ajorcajadaHey @ajorcajada - FYI: The reply you got is automated and relates to the company-wide status of response times, which is mostly for purchases of other brands where Massdrop is simply the reseller, not the producer. We do not have a high volume of support requests for this item (under 0.5% when I checked this morning). Nonetheless, we're sorry that yours wasn't perfect out of the box and our team will get back to you ASAP.
Jul 16, 2018
Tomomo
84
Jul 17, 2018
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HttpCaseyI've never spent much on knives so I thought this would be a great first knife for me to buy. Didnt notice much when I took it out of the box either and started to chop up some potato. I noticed that it also didnt seem to go straight either but I didnt know it was an issue. Now reading through some more comments here in the forum made me realise that these are actually problems that were not supposed to happen. The knife is sharper than my really cheap knife that I had for maybe 10 years but after reading how it was supposed to cut through hair off my arm, I gave that a try and it was not even close. I'm also pretty sure there might be a lot more people with the same issues but just are not aware of it being an issue unless they read about it. Just took it out to check it against a straight flat surface and it looks like it is slightly bent out towards the left side at the upper 1/3 of the knife from the tip.
Jul 17, 2018
tarachii
18
Jul 18, 2018
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johnvhI have the same issues with the blade being off center and there being a minor dent (but not a chip) in the blade when it arrived. And instead of the scratches, there is visible scuffing on the handle. While my knife is not completely dull, and is certainly sharper than my Victorinox Fibrox workhouse knife that had not been sharpened in over a year, the edges on both sides of the blade appear unevenly sharpened.
I honestly however don't think it's in issue with the QC. From my experience working with companies with good-seeming QC processes, talent and expertise is not retained, and corners are bound to be cut when yo underpay staff and set unreasonable timelines. This is true in every industry, and if Massdrop chose a factory that overpromised when the contract was signed, and is used to producing products where quality is a minimal concern, superimposing quality control measures on top is not going to change that.
Nevertheless to be fair, the knife has been functionally what I expect from a good $70 knife. It handles well despite it being off-center and me being left-handed, and feels extremely well-balanced. Alas, I had hoped that this knife would have been a $120 knife masquerading as a $70 knife. It may still be if the HRC is approximately as advertised and steel is to spec.
Jul 18, 2018
Itzenplitz
34
Aug 5, 2018
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JonasHeinemanMine is straight and shaved. Also no scuff marks. However the very tip is ground at another angle than the rest of the edge so it looks a bit like a tanto there. The shape of the blade is as it should be so it's hard to take a picture of the dual edge grind. It's also something which will disappear after I sharpened it a few times. Therefore I am not inclined to open a support ticket though the not super professional grind reduces my confidence in how the knife was made. Did they rush through the sharpening generally and mess up the heat treatment? Once I sharpen it and see how hard the steel is I will have a better idea.
Aug 5, 2018
Itzenplitz
34
Aug 5, 2018
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harveyfnjMany knives from other manufacturers have that problem. The steel and heat treatment may be correct but the heat from grinding the edge messes it up. The thinner the blade the more heat buildup during grinding and the worse the problem. The good news is that if they took care even a little then after a few sharpenings you may hit steel which is as hard as it's supposed to be.
Aug 5, 2018
harveyfnj
83
Aug 5, 2018
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JonasHeinemanRe: knife sharpening. I bought 4, and gave 3 of these knives away as gifts. Even after sharpening them myself as best I could, they are still embarrassingly dull. I ordered a set of whetstones for myself, but want my gift recipients to be able to return them to Apogee for sharpening. What is the actual procedure they can use, and what is the anticipated turnaround time? Of course, there should be NO cost to them for doing this. Also, waiting for confirmation of the steel used and Rockwell hardness from an independent lab. I’d like a reply from you ASAP. Thanks.
Aug 5, 2018
tarachii
18
Aug 15, 2018
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JonasHeineman So about this... - "* Shallower taper angle for improved ergonomics, especially where the thumb sits * Extending the blade’s heel back toward the taper, to keep the index finger on the bolster (instead of the spine) while maintaining full pinch on the blade"
Does this mean the blade was designed to be off-center? Because this has honestly made gripping the blade as a lefty feel a tad more awkward because of the deeper thumb placement (in-reverse of how it would be gripping the blade as a righty).
Aug 15, 2018
harveyfnj
83
Aug 15, 2018
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harveyfnjHello, anyone home at massxrop? Still waiting for a reply to this simple question.
Aug 15, 2018
Corinth
22
Sep 11, 2018
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JonasHeinemanHey mate, does the warranty cover chips and cracks? I had one randomly develop while I was cutting vegetables... it was definitely not normal. @JonasHeineman
Sep 11, 2018
harveyfnj
83
Sep 12, 2018
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CorinthI suspect that neither the materials used nor the QC and other processes were anywhere up to the hype for this knife. I gave 3 away as gifts, and am dissatisfied with the one i retained. Several emails to Jonas Heineman have gone unanswered. I'll wait another week before I elevate my displeasure with this product and its management.
Sep 12, 2018
JonasHeineman
5987
Sep 19, 2018
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CorinthThe warranty covers any and all manufacturing defects. "Chips" in the blade edge could be caused by cutting into a hard object, but "cracks" in the blade would be a different story. The former might be taken care of with sharpening, the latter would certainly require replacement. Either way, you're covered by Apogee - just go through the normal process of contacting support, they will ask you for photos and then help out accordingly. https://www.massdrop.com/transactions
Sep 19, 2018
tarachii
18
Sep 20, 2018
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JonasHeinemanJust wanted to follow up about the shallow taper that seems to favor gripping the blade with the right hand... This is implied to be intentional, right? If it was a defect, I'd like to know so I can send it in for an exchange. You'd think it would be important to note in the future a decision on ergonomics that is to the detriment of a significant portion of your customer base, versus if Massdrop had left it a neutral blade. As a left-handed knife wielder, my fingers bunch up on the side where there is a more shallow taper angle, which throws off the balance of the blade. I am getting no real answer from customer support, and was only told that they will refer the concern to the relevant department.
Sep 20, 2018
DakotaWillison
3
Oct 13, 2018
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tarachiiSadly the qc for these types of knives is pretty much non existent. Its how they offer this for a decent price. I can't stress enough that guessing HRC after grinding is a bad sign. I personally haven't had my hands on these knives, but have used a dragon fusion chef. It was pretty bad to say the least. Most people haven't used a decent let alone good kitchen knife and apogee continues to spew crap knives into the market with good marketing.
Oct 13, 2018
tarachii
18
Oct 18, 2018
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DakotaWillisonSad indeed. I'm going to stick with audio-only Massdrop collabs, because they're having QC issues with their Chinese factories for other product lines. I'm also tempted to demand a refund so I can justify going into the current Global Knife drop, lol
Oct 18, 2018
tarachii
18
Oct 19, 2018
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JonasHeinemanFor the sake of transparency, please please PLEASE clarify in regards to what is 'spec' when it comes to the shallow taper. I reached out to customer support and they were no help at all. And please don't give me a weasel non-answer out of fear of admitting a screw-up in the design process.
Oct 19, 2018
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