Massdrop x Carmina Semi-Brogue Oxford Discussions | Drop

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Massdrop x Carmina Semi-Brogue Oxford

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payodpanda

958

May 11, 2017

A short shoe nomenclature lesson as an extension to @SuperSandwich 's comment (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-carmina-adelaide-semi-brogue-oxford/talk/1680311):
There are basically three different terms that apply to what you name the shoe. 1. The lacing type (open vs closed lacing). 2. The shoe construction (how many pieces of leather are used? How are they cut? How are they stitched?). 3. The decoration which is usually in the form of punches (brogueing) and pinking (the jaggedy edges you see on a lot of wing tips).
I'm going to be using the UK nomenclature. Also keep in mind that some shoe designs might be a little vague. The ones on offer here are pretty straightforward though. 1. The lacing type determines if the shoes are oxfords (closed lacing) or derbies (open lacing). If the tongue is an extension of the vamp leather and the facing is stitched on, and they don't fully come together to close, that's a derby. In our case (ie the Carminas on offer), the facings do come together and the tongue is stitched on on the bottom. These are oxfords. 2. This determines terms like plain toe, cap toe, longwing, balmoral, wingtip etc. Some terms are specific to the toe construction (cap vs plain toe), some are specific to the stitching around the facings (eg Adelaide, balmoral), some are more general (eg swan neck). The shoes on offer here are simply cap toes, and don't have other distinguishing features like being a balmoral or an adelaide or having a swan neck etc). 3. As @SuperSandwich 's comment describes well, wrt brogueing you can have a full brogue, semi brogue, and a quarter brogue. However using one of these terms necessitates a particular shoe construction style too. A full brogue implies that the shoe is a wing tip, can be either long wing (usually a derby) or a short wing (usually an oxford), in addition to having brogueing along seams and a medallion. A semi brogue necessitates there being a straight cap-toe with an enclosed medallion. A quarter-brogue necessitates there being a straight cap-toe with brogueing but no medallion. Note, a shoe with a floating medallion (ie no cap toe) can not be called a semi-brogue.
So combining all of these, the shoes on offer becomes a "quarter-brogue oxford". You could also say "quarter-brogue cap-toe oxford" to be redundant or even simply "quarter-brogues" where the oxford (closed lacing) is implied.
Other examples: Quarter brogues, but without the brogueing along the facings. Aka perforated straight cap toe oxfords: https://www.meccarielloshoes.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/IMG_4925.jpg
This one is fun. Semi-brogue swan-neck balmorals (notice the stitching on the facing resembling a swan's neck? Also, the facing extends throughout the length of the shoe, sort of 360' which makes it a balmoral). You could also say Semi-brogue cap-toe swan-neck balmoral oxfords, but semi-brogues always have cap toes with enclosed medallions and balmorals are always oxfords: https://www.meccarielloshoes.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/IMG_5644.jpg
Short wing full brogues, or simply full brogues: https://www.meccarielloshoes.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/IMG_4937.jpg
Quarter-brogue adelaides: https://www.meccarielloshoes.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/IMG_4943.jpg
Adelaide with floating medallion: https://www.meccarielloshoes.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/IMG_4652.jpg
Wholecut oxfords: https://www.meccarielloshoes.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/IMG_9823.jpg
Et cetera...

May 11, 2017

ChurchillW

423

May 11, 2017

payodpandaNice write up, but we should probably also throw in that bluchers are also open laced shoes that are not interchangeable with derbies even though people use it that way.
https://www.styleforum.net/threads/carmina-shoes-definitive-thread-reviews-advice-sizing-etc.241469/page-438#post-6746957
Coincidence that this was discussed in the Carmina thread. I have it bookmarked for reference.

May 11, 2017

Vote

payodpanda

958

May 12, 2017

ChurchillWInteresting point and something that needs to be clarified. The term "derby" refers to the lacing system, and the lacing system only. The term "blucher" refers to the facings on the shoe. If the facings are simply the eyelets sewn on onto the vamp then it's called a blucher. All bluchers are also derbies, just like all Adelaides are also oxfords. The person who posted the post you link to on SF does notice that certain shoes are called bluchers and others derbies, but technically calling something a blucher derby is redundant and "derby" is implied (and hence might confuse somebody into thinking that derbies and bluchers are mutually exclusive sets but in reality bluchers are a subset of the larger derby set).
Reiterating, Oxford and derby refers to the *lacing type only*. Blucher and Adelaide and Balmoral refer to the *style* of the shoe.
Derby is to blucher like Oxford is to Adelaide. :)
Edit. In other words, if a shoe has open lacing you can call it a derby (as in derby laced shoe) without thinking about it. However you can't call all derbies bluchers.

May 12, 2017