Massdrop x Carmina Semi-Brogue Oxford Discussions | Drop

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Massdrop x Carmina Semi-Brogue Oxford

FULL DISCUSSION

Will

8470

Chief Product Officer

Oct 21, 2017

Update Oct 23: Hi All, we just got off the phone with Carmina and wanted to provide an update on the sizing problem. As mentioned in the previous email, the shoes were mislabeled in UK sizes instead of the specified US sizes. All drop participants are able to receive either a full refund or can wait to receive a replacement pair of shoes from Carmina. You will not need to return the shoes you have already received. The replacements will be prioritized by Carmina, but given they are handmade will still take some time. We will follow-up as soon as we have confirmation on a timeframe from Carmina.
To request either a full refund or request receiving a new pair of shoes, please go to the transactions page and reach out to support with what you would like. (If you have already submitted a request, you don’t need to do send a new one)
https://www.massdrop.com/transactions In either case, you can keep the shoes that have been sent to you. Some users have written in asking to swap shoes with someone else in the drop, and we’ve created a post where you can connect with others in the drop here:
https://www.massdrop.com/talk/2551/massdrop-x-carmina-semi-brogue-oxford-size-swap-thread Again, we want to apologize for the issue with sizing on this drop and for the huge letdown it represents. It is clearly not the situation anyone wanted to be in, and we’ll be doing what we can to make it right. Carmina's being a great partner helping work through this process with us, and we'll provide an update for timing for the option to get a new pair of shoes as soon as we can.
----- Hi Everyone, thanks for reporting these sizing issues. We've reached out to Carmina, but they’re a day ahead and generally unresponsive over the weekend. We're trying to schedule a call late Sunday night our time, their Monday morning to discuss this situation ASAP.
As many of you have suggested, it appears these shoes were labeled in UK sizes instead of US sizes as we specified. This means pending our discussion with Carmina, the solution will likely be that we'll provide prepaid return labels and redistribute the sizes. Due to the combination of widths and lengths, there will likely be a number of orders that can't be fulfilled with the units in this shipment. Because of that, a key part of our discussion with Carmina will be around them producing additional units to fulfill those orders on a condensed production schedule.
We will be monitoring this discussion, but if you have an issue, please write into our support team by clicking “contact support” via the Carmina transaction on your My Transactions page. The more of you that do that, the more we have to show Carmina when we talk with them. Overall, Carmina has been great to work with (especially related to sizing as a topic) and I’m sure we can work together to find the fastest and most complete solution possible.
This experience is not representative of what you should expect from a Massdrop collaboration and we’ll be working with Carmina to make it right for everyone in this drop.
We’ll be sending this as an email to everyone in the drop, but thanks again for your quick reporting in this discussion and please write in to support (via your transactions page) so we can verify the extent of the issue in time for our discussion with Carmina.

Oct 21, 2017

Spikepaga

Oct 21, 2017

WillHow, oh how in the world is this not noticed by either Carmina or Massdrop? This is beyond absurd. Did no one think to check sizing? I want my shoes in the size I ordered by the end of the month or a refund.

Oct 21, 2017

SuperSandwich

Oct 21, 2017

WillI'm so bummed, this drop has been a disaster! Saying - our bad, we're sorry, we aren't usually so incompetent guys - and then having people return their shoes and wait for Massdrop to sort things out is frankly not enough. So far we've had wrong sizes, very late delivery, poor communication, no promised production photos, etc. You should offer refunds for all who want one, and some sort of discount or compensation for those that are now going to have to take time out of their day to return the shoes and then cross our fingers that a correctly sized pair of shoes that hopefully isn't worn, creased, or otherwise molested shows up in a reasonable amount of time.

Oct 21, 2017

MikeNola

Oct 21, 2017

Will"For Carmina, a US D is their EE, and all samples made were US (D), Carmina EE. The takeaway is, order the C if you fit a C, the D if you fit a D, and the E if you fit an E. If you’re an EE or an EEE width in american brands, this drop unfortunately isn’t for you." No offense but clearly your QC needs to be revisted or this is bs. I ordered 11D but got 11EEs....wouldn't the EE have stood out when my shoes were being pulled to ship as UK labeled? Didn't your QC know they should match 11D to 10EE in this drop? Why did you even size these US to begin with? Way too many chances for what happened to happen. I am still so pissed about this drop and you seem to be blaming Carmina. Maybe they did screw up the sizing but you then spent time checking the items and sending them. Someone should have caught this. Ridiculous.

Oct 21, 2017

Knut

301

Oct 21, 2017

MikeNoladidn’t NASA miss with a probe because of errors converting from/to metric?
so if rocket scientists can make an error like this, maybe we should give Massdrop some slack.
That said, if I were boss at MD, a head or two might roll.

Oct 21, 2017

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Bond007

Oct 21, 2017

SpikepagaAs you can see the blame game is being played... sounds like Massdrop is trying to blame Carmina. I believe that no matter what it is the fault of Massdrop. We all know that Carmina shoes are sized and sold in UK sizes so why why in the world did Massdrop decide to have us order in US sizes??? Anyone who has ever run anything where things get converted knows the great chance for human error in someone not doing the proper conversion. Also I hear on the Massdrop discussions that this same error was done by Massdrop on the Carlos Santos drop so seems the common denominator is Massdrop here for the blame. Please have a lessons learned from this and the CS mess and put measures in place to avoid it in the future. Did you notice this never happens with the Justin Fitzpatrick shoes??? you know why??? it's because we order our UK size just like the factory knows how to make, so there is no chance of error. Where I ask where was Massdrop Quality control??? I mean Massdrop made us wait almost 3 weeks for them to QC and pack and ship so no one noticed the error, seriously it was right on the bottom of every shoe and on every box!!! Anyone that works in QC should have at the very least a basic understanding of the product they are going to QC. That would mean that we had our customers order in US sizes so make sure that you are shipping the correct size shoe since Carmina shoes are sold in UK sizes. Would that not have been the very first thing a QC person would check, correct size??? Come on seriously!!! Honestly I waited long enough I want a refund!!!
Carmina has a new store in NYC just an hour from me so I am going to go there this weekend and get my shoes I am tired of waiting especially after we waited an extra 3 weeks for QC, packing and shipping only to have QC miss the most basic and first thing that should have been checked, the size!!!
ALSO YOU PLAN TO HAVE US ALL SHIP OUR SHOES BACK AND REDISTRIBUTE THEM??? SO NOW WE ARE NOT REALLY GETTING NEW SHOES ARE WE!!! THEY HAVE ALL BEEN SHIPPED TO A CUSTOMER AND TAKEN OUT OF THE BOX AND WE HAVE ALL POSTED HERE THAT WE TRIED THEM ON TO SEE IF THEY FIT.
THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS I DON'T WANT TO GET A PAIR WITH MISSING SHOE BAGS OR THAT HAVE BEEN TESTED OUT, I PAID FOR NEW SHOES!!!
DO YOU HONESTLY EXPECT US TO BELIEVE THAT YOU WILL QC THEM BEFORE SHIPPING, OMG THAT'S A JOKE.
Again I just want a refund I am done with this mess of a drop.
DID YOU HEAR ME I DON'T WANT USED TRIED ON SHOES AND I AM NOT GOING TO WAIT ANY LONGER, I WANT A REFUND. YOU HAVE 7 DAYS TO PROCESS MY REFUND. IF NOT I WILL SEE IF I CAN FILE A CLAIM WITH MY CC. IF NOT SINCE WE WAITED SO LONG FOR THIS DROP I WILL FILE IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT FOR A FULL REFUND, PLUS TIME SPENT, AND COURT COST.

Oct 21, 2017

Piedmont

Oct 21, 2017

Bond007Speaking as a lawyer, chill. Legally, I doubt that you'll be entitled to anything more than a refund.
That said, Massdrop and Carmina might want to consider if there's anything that can be done to earn back good-will. My suggestion is something like a coupon to waive MTO fees from Carmina or a voucher for some small item from Massdrop (socks, shoehorn, etc). That said, this situation is going to be governed by contract law, and they're unlikely to be required to do anything other than give you a full refund.
(This is not legal advice - talk to a lawyer if you think you have a claim.)

Oct 21, 2017

Bond007

Oct 21, 2017

PiedmontI only want the refund as I did not get what I paid for, I don't want used shoes, and I have waited long enough. So a full refund is all I want, and I have learned my lesson about drops.

Oct 21, 2017

Bond007

Oct 21, 2017

KnutWell I know at my place of employment if you made an error like this you would be unemployed. Also this is not the first time this has happened at MD and what is QC for what do they check if not the size??? Anyway this is a Mass mistake.

Oct 21, 2017

Spikepaga

Oct 21, 2017

Bond007I would not have minded waiting another month for them if the shoes would have been delivered in the right size, since I am getting them at a discount. I would not mind getting A pair of shoes another customer opened as long as they have not been tried on and creased- I know I read this before the shoes arrived and immediately looked at the size and have not tried them on at all— problem is after this I can’t trust Massdrop QA to redestribute pair in my size that is also in new condition ...

Oct 21, 2017

Vote

MGoCrimson

Oct 21, 2017

WillYour "best" solution is to redistribute shoes with potentially terrible creasing due to incorrect product sizing and other signs of wear as new?
Massdrop should liquidate this entire stock with a consignment seller as "floor models" or "used" because that's what they are.
Give refunds to those who want out. Re-order with Carmina for the drop participants who want their shoe in the correct size.

Oct 21, 2017

purpleporing

Oct 21, 2017

WillI won't get this until Monday because of the FedEx SmartPost but if it has the same issues I will echo a few others' concerns that a simple redistribution cannot be the correct solution because the shoes received will have been tried on by somebody else and therefore no longer new.

Oct 21, 2017

Spongebob123

Oct 22, 2017

Will1. EE is not the right width regardless if we get the correct shoe size 2. The shoes will not be new since someone will have tried and/or walked in them
A full refund should be available for those who want them.

Oct 22, 2017

MGoCrimson

Oct 22, 2017

Spongebob123EE is the standard width. Carmina EE = US D

Oct 22, 2017

BlueCrowned

5305

Oct 22, 2017

MGoCrimson @Spongebob123 @Bond007 So do you guys figure when you buy new shoes at the store no one else has tried them on, ever?

Oct 22, 2017

Bond007

Oct 22, 2017

BlueCrownedI think the bigger issue is no one trust MD QC to make sure that the shoes being exchanged are ok. As in not worn off carpet, not all creased up, includes the shoe bags things like that. When you are at the store sure you could be buying a shoe that someone tried on. But that is under a controlled environment where the salesperson is not going to let you do anything to the shoe that makes it unsellable as new. So again it is more a total loss of trust in MD being able to redistribute the correct size shoes in new condition as would happen at a store. This is further made worse because they were all tried on in uncontrolled environments. Also we waited 6 months, it took them almost a month to do QC (laugh sorry we all know the QC was a joke) and we all got the wrong size shoes.

Oct 22, 2017

BlueCrowned

5305

Oct 22, 2017

Bond007That is understandable. Have a nice day.

Oct 22, 2017

Vote

Notabot19

Oct 22, 2017

BlueCrownedFair point, but I'd like to point out that this is a group MTO. If you order a pair MTO from any maker, that pair of shoes should not have been tried on, scuffed, creased, etc. because it is straight from the factory.
It's one thing if this was Carmina clearing out old stock, but since this was a custom order, the expectation is that every single one of these shoes should be factory new (which they were when we first got them, but you don't know if every single customer is going to preserve the state of the shoes before returning them). Personally if I get a pair of shoes that have significant creasing, that will be unacceptable.

Oct 22, 2017

Bond007

Oct 22, 2017

Notabot19I agree with you 100% great point. I have just emailed support again requesting my refund since the last contact was Friday with them requesting photos. Still don't know what the photos prove but I sent them and did not hear back. I just want a prepaid shipping label and a full refund.

Oct 22, 2017

purpleporing

Oct 22, 2017

Notabot19It's not even a "fair point" here. As you mentioned, these are two different ways of buying shoes with different expectations. And we aren't talking about cheap shoes you buy at your local mall. I would be absolutely shocked if you bought a "new" pair of shoes at the John Lobb shop or the Armoury or any other high-end store and got a pair of shoes that has been previously tried on by someone else. Those kinds of places sell their "tried on" shoes at a sale--not at full price--and do not describe them as "new."

Oct 22, 2017

Bond007

Oct 22, 2017

purpleporingAgreed it is as you said an "Expectation" we all had when we made this purchase, we were to get a brand new fresh pair of shoes delivered to our door in the size we specified. I don't know what this call with Carmina will produce or even the point of the call all together. But I do like your point, and maybe say for half price (as you said at a discount) I would be willing to take a chance on getting the right size from this Massmess. But there is no way I am willing to pay full price for shoes that are part of this Massmess oh sorry Massdrop... What I don't understand is the reason they decided to have us order from a UK size company in US sizes. I mean I ordered the J Fitzpatrick drop in UK size and no issue I got what I ordered, I ordered the Cobbler Union drop in my UK size and again I got what I ordered. SO WHY in the world did someone think at MD that it was a great idea to have us order in our US size when we ALL KNOW that Carmina just like JF and CU is sold in UK size??????? Seriously anyone with half a brain could see the massive possibility of human error here. Oh and don't get me started on QA really they made us wait on that for weeks and what a joke they missed the most basic and most important thing giving customers the right size shoe.

Oct 22, 2017

dd1101

Oct 23, 2017

WillWill any updates? This was my first MassDrop and not a good experience. I was really impressed with the shoes and how they came out....minus too damn big. What is the game plan, how much longer are we waiting for the shoes to get redone, what discount will be given or how are individuals going to be compensated for waiting this long?
For transparency sake who dropped the ball?

Oct 23, 2017

purpleporing

Oct 23, 2017

WillOkay I received today and, like everyone else, have the same sizing issue and so I contacted Massdrop support via my transactions page.

Oct 23, 2017

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Spikepaga

Oct 23, 2017

WillI have send 3 emails thru the transaction link. I don’t even have a return label. Given this is a 100% MD problem (please don’t blame Carmina for making shoes in the UK Sizes They always do) , do you not think it’s reasonable to expect updates?

Oct 23, 2017

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thordork

Oct 23, 2017

WillI already contacted support but without a specific action. Should I contact again requesting for a new pair of shoes? I do like the shoes and was hoping for some sort of swap after shoes were being returned, but this solution seems fine too.

Oct 23, 2017

Vote

jkang

Oct 24, 2017

WillWill,
I just sent customer service a message regarding my situation. I got the wrong size on Friday, and wrote customer service. They told me to mail the shoes back for a refund with the shipping label, so I did on Saturday. And then this update happened tonight with these new options to keep the incorrect shoes and wait for the right ones. I hope that you guys will return the incorrect shoes to me so that I can gift them to a family member/friend. I don’t think it would be fair to not let me have the same option as others do. I would be willing to wait for the correctly sized pair and cancel my refund request that way.

Oct 24, 2017

dd1101

Oct 24, 2017

WillWill, Thank you for making this right. I sent a message through transaction page for a refund on Saturday. BUT I sent a new message today request a replacement. Thank you again for making this right.

Oct 24, 2017

Jenko83

Oct 24, 2017

WillWill,
Thanks for the good news. I was upset when I got the shoes in the wrong size after waiting for so long, but with Massdrop/Carmina's action here you guys are making a grand gesture of attempting to right a wrong. I am pleasantly surprised that I will now be able to gift these shoes to my father and wait for another pair to be made from Carmina in the correct size at no additional cost. Courtesy heads up to your shipping folks though, bubble wrap the entire Carmina box and don't match corner to corner on a box. It won't prevent crush damage... Ask me how I know. But to end on an up note, thanks again and I hope my second time waiting for these shoes will be shorter and in UK8.5EE this time. Regards, Jason Jenkins (UK8.5EE/US9.5D)

Oct 24, 2017

Feroz

Oct 24, 2017

Bond007Did you go to Carmina's store? How did that work out?

Oct 24, 2017

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Jonah.Y

Oct 26, 2017

WillI didn't participate in this drop but have been following it all these months and am glad Massdrop is addressing the problem, but between this drop and the Puro sneaker drop, which I did participate in, I'm starting to not entirely believe "This experience is not representative of what you should expect from a Massdrop collaboration," when it comes to shoe collaborations.

Oct 26, 2017