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seedeevee
97
Jul 9, 2018
I'm all for Vietnamese capitalists getting their fair share but I am pretty sure Dan Durston could have found excellent organizations in North America to produce these items. This sales job for producers in Vietnam smells a little funny.
The tent looks nice, though.
Architart
20
Jul 10, 2018
seedeeveeThe value chain in manufacturing doesn't make sense for the US to compete at the lowest rung against developing countries. Textiles are as low as you can go as almost anyone can learn to use a sewing machine. It is practically the definition of low skilled labor, which is not what we should be pursuing anymore. The US should (and does) move on to more high skilled labor and technology at the top of the value chain and stop competing at the bottom. Vietnam and Nicaragua can improve their economies by starting out like we did a century ago.
seedeevee
97
Jul 10, 2018
ArchitartIt makes sense for a nation of 320 million people to be able to produce at every level of manufacturing and to not have to rely on friendly dictatorships or impoverished nations to produce any particular item. This type of manufacturing is done in North America by well trained workers and has been done so for hundreds of years. You go to Viet Nam because it is cheaper than China and with even less regulations - not because of any qualitative advantage.
seenypaul
Jul 18, 2018
ArchitartI'll build on @seedeevee's response to your statement. I have a child with a learning disability. One point that really sticks in my craw about the constant push to promote USA higher up the high-skill ladder and relegate more "menial " labor tasks to other nations is that it ignores a reality that not everyone is cut out for the necessary training for high-skill. The one I keep hearing is that putting robots in factories in place of "expensive" human assemblers is no problem because displaced workers can always be retrained to build and fix those robots. Well, no, that isn't always the case, Some of the displaced who can't rise to the necessary education levels will instead end up displacing others at lower levels or, worse, on government dole and possibly feeling useless/worthless. How many domestics and janitors does our country need? Let's try to keep more of the sewing jobs on US soil.
seedeevee
97
Aug 4, 2018
seenypaulFYI, Dan Durston replied to me but his response is not being shown here and I can't read the entire message. Maybe he deleted it? It was kind of funny because he bad mouths Chinese manufacturers by saying
"Take a look at companies like Patagonia - they get a lot of their technical gear sewn in Vietnam because the factories there offer higher skill and ethics than China for only a moderately higher price . . . ."
There are ethics problems in every country in the world, including the USA, but I have never heard anyone say they go to Vietnam for the ethical advantages.
seedeevee
97
Aug 4, 2018
seedeeveeFYI, Dan Durston replied to me but his response is not being shown here and I can't read the entire message. Maybe he deleted it? It was kind of funny because he bad mouths Chinese manufacturers by saying "Take a look at companies like Patagonia - they get a lot of their technical gear sewn in Vietnam because the factories there offer higher skill and ethics than China for only a moderately higher price . . . ." There are ethics problems in every country in the world, including the USA, but I have never heard anyone say they go to Vietnam for the ethical advantages.
(Repeated below)
seedeeveeHI seedeevee,
In one of your previous posts you made the claim that: "You go to Viet Nam because it is cheaper than China and with even less regulations - not because of any qualitative advantage"
I disagree with that. I believe that respected companies like Patagonia choose to manufacturer in Vietnam because there are many manufacturers with a well rounded combination of high end experience, efficient pricing and good transparency on social and environmental ethics. But I deleted the post because I'm not looking to get into a discussion about one country versus another. I only wanted to disagree with the claim that we selected our factory for rock bottom ethics and price, which is not the case. Our factory has been building tents for over 60 years, has been socially and environmentally audited by many buyers with high standards, and is one of the best in the world at what they do.
seedeevee
97
Aug 5, 2018
dandurstonThanks for your honest opinion.
seenypaul
Aug 5, 2018
seedeeveeAnd, to be perfectly clear, my post was directed in response to Architart's reasoning rather than to dandurston's. There is high quality labor to be found worldwide. The concept of shunning certain tasks in an elitist fashion is neither realistic nor sustainable. If Dan and Massdrop truly believe that the manufacturer they chose is the right fit, I'm all for it as long as they gave thorough consideration to domestic sources also.
seedeevee
97
Aug 5, 2018
seenypaul"I'm all for it as long as they gave thorough consideration to domestic sources also."
That's what I should have written.
Architart
20
Aug 6, 2018
seenypaulA simple listen to any economics podcast would succinctly and eloquently explain supply & demand. Instead of sneering at the sourcing, let's try to support and applaud the entrepreneurial spirit in developing and bringing this product to market at an affordable price that makes it accessible to not just elitists.
seenypaul
Aug 6, 2018
ArchitartI did not sneer at the sourcing. I said consider ALL sourcing and rule out none. Treating a certain set of tasks as being "beneath" producers in the US is contrary to that concept.
A community member
Sep 20, 2018
seenypaulMassdrop ships worldwide so I would prefer manufacturing money goes to developing countries where my dollar can have a more leveraged effect than to first world countries. And, I have no reason to suspect that crafspeople in Vietnam are any less capable than craftspeople in the US. In fact I have previously, regretfully, purchased a cottage industry tent of moderate quality, and high cost, from the US.
I have nothing against the US - just giving a perspective from someone not from the US.
seedeevee
97
Sep 20, 2018
Just what is it you are leveraging?
A community member
Sep 20, 2018
seedeeveemy dollar - it is worth more to vietnamese craftspeople then it is to american craftspeople due to the relative exchange rate. Vietnam has little social welfare so my dollar is worth more, in human terms, going to a developing country than to a first world economy. As not all purchasers on Massdrop are American, and therefore primarily concerned with US economic interests, I thought that i would point out some considerations of international commerce.
seedeevee
97
Sep 21, 2018
Understood. I'll remind you that dollars are American and most of your money will not be going to Vietnamese craftsmen, but to Dan Durston, the owners of Massdrop and the Vietnamese .0001% that control industry in that country. You might do better to find a different way to directly donate your leverage to the class of Vietnamese you are aiming for.
A community member
Sep 21, 2018
seedeeveeDollars are Australian if you are paying in AUD.
My point is that there is no advantage to some Massdrop customers in having an American made product. I have no problem with some of my Australian dollars going to Dan Durston (who has the IP on the product) some to Massdrop who is the distributor and some to a craftsperson in a developing country.
I would also not have a problem if the craftsperson was an American - but my dollar goes further in a developing country to raise the standard of living so that is fine too.
seedeevee
97
Sep 21, 2018
You seem to have a grudge against certain Americans and their industries - which is your right. You also don't seem to care too much about Australian industry - which is your right. Your belief that your dollars spent at Massdrop and trickled down to the owners of its Asian suppliers and American IP holders will raise the standard of living there is a misplaced neo-liberal fantasy - which is your right. Enjoy!
A community member
Sep 21, 2018
seedeeveeNot privileging US made goods over other manufacturers is not the same thing as having a grudge. Happy to pay a good craftsperson for their work be they american or vietnamese.