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401lineman
0
Jul 11, 2018
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Hello Dan, Will pacer poles work with this design? I plan on a future purchase of pacer poles. I ordered the mid and looking forward to utilizing it when no trees are available ( hammock hiker).Great design!
Jul 11, 2018
dandurston
5116
Dan Durston
Jul 11, 2018
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401linemanHi 401lineman,
Thanks for the support. Yes they'll work. No reason why they won't work in the X-Mid as well as they do in other pyramid style stylers. Some folks with pacer poles prefer to place them handle up, but the X-Mid has grommets at the peaks for the tips, so I expect you'll get a solid pitch either way.
Jul 11, 2018
Dondo100
1
Jul 11, 2018
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401linemanHi 401lineman,
Just to reinforce Dan's comment: You'll have no problem with your Pacerpoles. I've been using them for years with a standard design two-pole mid, the Golite Shangri-La 2. Either way will give you a stable pitch, though I tend to go handles-up if I suspect that rodents are around.
Jul 11, 2018
Unnamedpeaks
14
Jul 15, 2018
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dandurstonWhat are the advantages /disadvantages of tip up/tip down setups? Tip up seems like it risks damage to shelter, requires a grommet...why do it this way?
Jul 15, 2018
dandurston
5116
Dan Durston
Jul 16, 2018
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UnnamedpeaksWith a tips up setup into a grommet, you've got a very secure connection between the pole and shelter so that even in extreme weather it's not going to move around. I like it this way because it's more solid, but it does get your pole handle a bit dirty if the ground is. Either way you want some solid reinforcement in this area (X-Mid has a cone of 210D nylon).
With a grommet, you can do it either way, so it's up to you.
Jul 16, 2018
seenypaul
Jul 17, 2018
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dandurstonI'm always leery of grommets, no matter how they're reinforced. No sign of strain around them in your simulated- or field-testing? Only the cheap utility tarps I use around the house and garage have them, while the ones I truly depend on in my outdoor life use sewn loops. I have experienced grommet failures - sometimes tear-throughs due to the weakened fabric, and sometimes the grommets have come apart due to poor factory setting of them. I was ready to scoop up this tent for its innovation until I read your comment about using them for the pole tips. Now I hesitate. If I do go ahead, it would definitely be with tip-down pitch and maybe even secure a solid piece of fabric over the grommets to negate them entirely.
Jul 17, 2018
dandurston
5116
Dan Durston
Jul 23, 2018
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seenypaulCheap utility tarps certainly use grommets and these fail often. But numerous high end tents also use grommets without failure. Think of how the tent poles connect in almost any MSR tent. Or think of any trekking pole supported product from TarpTent - those use grommets for the pole tips with no incidences of failure that I'm aware of.
Grommet strength mostly comes down to how beefy the materials are that it is installed into, but of course you need a quality grommet too (e.g. no sharp edges). The grommets in cheap blue/orange utility tarps are usually installed through just one or two layers of the canopy fabric, rather than something tougher. They easily tear out under load. Whereas quality tents install the grommet into nylon webbing, which is far tougher than any canopy material. For example, TarpTent installs grommets for trekking pole tips into a single layer of nylon webbing. This is very tough and I've never heard of a single failure even though TarpTent has been doing this for 20 years or so.
The X-Mid is actually extra beefy in this area, as it installs the grommets through two layers of tough nylon webbing rather than one. Please note that this is proper nylon webbing, not thinner grosgrain. It would take a truly a fantastic force to rip these out. Similar tents using half the reinforcement have scant failures. So no I don't see any signs of wear in my testing. I would be astounded if one of these ripped out.
But if you don't like grommets (or want to save a few grams), it's very easy to just cut them out and just position your poles with the handles up. The grommets are installed into webbing inside the peaks, rather than through the peaks themselves, you wouldn't need to patch anything if you removed them. Here is a quick sketch of this layout. The green dashed lines show where you could cut to easily remove them.
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Jul 23, 2018
seenypaul
Jul 23, 2018
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dandurstonGreat info and definitely alleviates my concerns as far as design. As to grommets in other situations (I used the blue tarps as an example only) I have experienced failures more than once in "higher end" items and each of those has been due to sloppy factory placement. In one case, the grommets were all set through in what I call the wrong way out when they were crimped in, such that the natural forces applied by the poles acted to push the crimp back apart again. Here's hoping that the factory chosen to produce the X-Mid understands the difference in force direction on a grommet.
Jul 23, 2018
dandurston
5116
Dan Durston
Jul 30, 2018
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seenypaulSeenypaul, you can get a better look at the grommet layout in the new X-Mid video: https://youtu.be/U9vOLs12KQE
Jul 30, 2018
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