Click to view our Accessibility Statement or contact us with accessibility-related questions
Showing 1 of 380 conversations about:
guvnor
735
Jun 8, 2017
bookmark_border
Does the knife not have hardened steel washers on the Ti sides for the bearings to ride on?
Jun 8, 2017
Gunmonkey1974
87
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
guvnorNone of their other knives do and theyre some of the smoothest knives ibe owned especially the archbishop
Jun 9, 2017
guvnor
735
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
Gunmonkey1974It's not about smoothness, it's about longevity. The same reason why so many Ti frame-locks, like this one, have steel lockbar inserts.
The bearings will soon begin to deform the softer Ti and make a groove where the bearings ride. It's also more likely to suffer from pits/dimples along the track where the bearings roll over from things like over-tightening the pivot or lateral force on the blade. Even something as simple as checking side-to-side play on the blade can cause pits. As soon as that happens your glass-like smoothness in gone - and instead of replacing a couple washers, you'll be replacing two slabs of Ti handles.
I sold off all my knives that had bearings but no washers after personally witnessing how quickly it was wearing. Spyderco began retrofitting their older bearing pivot knives like the Southard to include the steel washers after many issues, and they still have problems from using too thin of a steel washer that also deforms.
Jun 9, 2017
Gunmonkey1974
87
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
guvnorI've got 4 of their knives ranging from 1-5 years old and they get flipped and used constantly ...not an issue
Jun 9, 2017
PigmonkeY
1082
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
guvnorYou would need a ridiculous amount of pivot pressure to get that to happen.
Jun 9, 2017
guvnor
735
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
Gunmonkey1974Open it up and take a pic of the Ti handle where the bearings ride.
Jun 9, 2017
PigmonkeY
1082
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
guvnorI should think a good heavy grease would eliminate 90% of the issue, but it would make the knife flip "slower"
Jun 9, 2017
guvnor
735
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
PigmonkeYIt's the bearings literally digging a trench along their path. Grease wouldn't do anything.
I'm not interested in sitting here and arguing whether it's an issue, because it's already been discussed and proven on dedicated knife forums - hence why most of the major companies are now including the hardened washers when they didn't before.
Jun 9, 2017
guvnorThe Crux and Falcon and all the MassForge knives have hardened washers, and they are substantial (it's actually a pain in the ass to account for them when I render). I don't do it on my own brand because the grade 5 ti work hardens in the races during fit up and once the depth gets set it doesn't change. That only works if have accounted for the dimension change and fit each knife one at a time by hand so you can adjust pocket depths to fit and run the bearings enough so the races are cut and hardened by the bearings.
Jun 9, 2017
PigmonkeY
1082
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
guvnorpersonally, i'd prefer knives without bearings, less points of failure. If you've ever got a load of mud into a knife with ball bearings, you'll know the pain. That being said, yes, a thick grease will help because that's what they're physically designed to do. You can stick your fingers in your ears as much as you like, but lowering the coefficient of friction between everything is going to more or less stop the problem in its tracks.
The reason people aren't using thick greases is because they prefer that the knife flips open very easy and fast, so they add a light machine oil and a ton of pivot pressure, and you end up digging a groove.
Jun 9, 2017
guvnor
735
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
PigmonkeYIt's not friction that causes it. It's pressure from the pivot fastener. Most people like their pivots tight enough to not have any lateral blade-play, and that's enough to wear a path from the bearings.
Grease doesn't do anything because it'd be all squeezed out between the bearings and the surface they ride on from the pressure of the pivot.
I prefer the traditional bronze washers as well. I personally consider bearing knives more fidget toys than tools.
Jun 9, 2017
PigmonkeY
1082
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
guvnorIf you've got one without washers in it, try a high moly grease. You'll be amazed. The moly actually works into the metal like a graphite would. Real high moly content grease isn't cheap, but it's all i'll use on bearing pivots, and i've never had the issue. I blue loctite my pivots and tighten them just enough to remove the lateral play, and I've never really had any problems.
Jun 9, 2017
guvnor
735
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
FerrumForgeKnifeWorksGood to hear that it's designed to have the race for the bearings wear itself in.
Though Zero Tolerance said the same thing about their early bearing knives like the 0801 and how the Ti will work-harden, but I still ended up with uneven wear and dimples on the race that caused it to progressively flip open grittier.
Nowadays I just go for knives with replaceable hardened washers(or no bearings) in the first place and avoid the possibility of the issue altogether.
Jun 9, 2017
JonasHeineman
5987
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
guvnorFYI - This is coming soon to a production knife near you... http://www.zpsknives.com/
I think one manufacturer is going to buy the rights to this, which is too bad because I'd be interested to see it used more widely.
Jun 9, 2017
guvnor
735
Jun 9, 2017
bookmark_border
JonasHeinemanCertainly interesting; they list toughness as one of its features, but I still have to wonder about the toughness being made of such a hard material. Would probably be fine for EDC use.
Might be tough to adapt widely anyway since it uses a pivot bushing like Chris Reeve Knives, the tolerances on the knife manufacturing would have to be really tight.
Jun 9, 2017
Gunmonkey1974
87
Jun 10, 2017
bookmark_border
PigmonkeYWhat point of failure? Bearings? Right because we don't use them in every other hard use rotating joint... forgot the last time I heard myself say I nee to lube my wheel hub bushing... oh wait that's because it used bearings
Jun 10, 2017
PigmonkeY
1082
Jun 10, 2017
bookmark_border
Gunmonkey1974Yeah, but you're not talking about tiny open balls in a race. Let me know how well your knife works when it's packed with sawdust or mud. It's a pain in the ass to take down in the field without losing parts, and you really can't get them back to halfway decent by just flushing them with water.
It's just somthing you need to keep in mind.
Jun 10, 2017
Gunmonkey1974
87
Jun 10, 2017
bookmark_border
PigmonkeYI spent my entire adult life in the military and I've never had a knife with bearings get so bad that it won't function... even in Iraq where the sand gets into everything ... ask Elliot about another friend of theirs who's the Green Beret and carries their knives while operating ... now to prove a point I've had knives with bushings do what you're talkIng about and not been able to wash them out... I rarely if ever take my knives with bearings apart in contrast to my sebenza (bushings) which needs it about monthly if not more depending on use and carry.
Jun 10, 2017
PigmonkeY
1082
Jun 10, 2017
bookmark_border
Gunmonkey1974I have spent one afternoon in a swamp and fallen in and had my knife make the WORST grinding sound when i tried to open it next, and fail to close without a ton of spine pressure. I was unable to get it open after that. I had to totally break it down and clean the silt out of the bearings to get them to roll again.
the hard opening and closing isn't a bother, but i also don't want to lose a goddamn finger trying to spinewhack the blade closed because it's jammed. This WAS NOT a FF knife. I'm just stating my experience. I'm sorry if the green barets and all the special forces in the world use them and haven't had the issue.
the "appeal to special forces" argument in knives is a lot of bullshit, if you ask me. I am willing to bet a ranch or farm hand uses his knife more in a week than the special forces soldier does in his entire career for actual work.
Jun 10, 2017
Gunmonkey1974
87
Jun 10, 2017
bookmark_border
PigmonkeYWell I grew up on a farm and I used my knivest way more often while I was in the military... way less now that I'm retired
Jun 10, 2017
PigmonkeY
1082
Jun 10, 2017
bookmark_border
Gunmonkey1974I don't have any special forces friends, but from what i gather, in 99% of roles (except the one guy i know who is EOD), your knife is basically an MRE opener, and that's the stretch of it for the most part.
On dairy farms when I was younger my buck 110 was in and out of my pocket constantly.
Jun 10, 2017
View Full Discussion