Click to view our Accessibility Statement or contact us with accessibility-related questions
mike.j
300
Dec 6, 2018
What's better than a falcon? A falcon with DAMASCUS! Since joining the blades team here at Massdrop in August, I was shared the privilege of knowing about this top secret project and its forthcoming plans to use Vegas Forge Damascus. Right away I knew we had something special.  The Falcon was already a community favorite and a powerful offering amongst the thousands of knives available for anyone to purchase across dozens of different websites and retail stores but we wanted to figure out if we could take this to another level and really make it stand out.  We work with the Ferrum Forge brothers, Elliot and Chris, every week on gathering opinions of their designs with variations of materials and finishes and it is always great to have their input. As you’re all aware, we've taken FFKW designs and added various milling patterns to models already released to give another breathe of fresh air to the design but how do we truly take it to another level? In comes Vegas Forge. Vegas Forge has been producing quality billets of Damascus for a few years now and we chose them for their great, uniform patterns. They truly want to produce the best Damascus they can. We also chose Vegas Forge after noticing that many great makers use Vegas Forge Damascus including Eric Ochs, Nick Swan, Greg Burger, Craig Brown, Jason Guthrie, Ed Cope, and the list goes on.  As with anything we do, we prototyped a couple versions of the Falcon in Damascus before landing on the perfect model. We tried Vegas Forge’s Fireball and Reptilian patterns and fell in love with the Reptilian pattern for the Falcon. The Fireball, while a fantastic pattern, didn’t pop in the way we were hoping it would compared to the Reptilian pattern.  Another change we knew we needed to make was to move our logo and serialization from the lock side of the blade. The Damascus was just too pretty to have any laser markings so we moved the Massdrop logo to the backspacer. We also subtly moved the serialization to the inside of the show scale of the knife.  Did I mention this is a limited edition drop? Only 50 units will be produced and once they’re gone, they’re gone forever! For those of you who have asked for Damascus options, todays your day. We hope you enjoy it as much as we do. Thanks for your interest in this special release of the Falcon and feel free to ask any questions. I’ll be checking in often to field any questions you all might have.  Only the best, Mike Edit: Corrected number of units in drop limit.
(Edited)
erickong
7411
Dec 6, 2018
mike.jThis looks amazing
RussB
228
Dec 7, 2018
mike.jThe design looks solid. Using 302 in the blade makes it a non starter. That's not a cutlery grade steel.
mike.j
300
Dec 7, 2018
RussBThanks for the feedback, Russ. What steel would you prefer to have used for these types of configurations? We want to branch out more and get a wider selection of steels available. Also how hard would you say you use a Damascus bladed knife? I have a couple and I do use them but mostly just on boxes and plastic packaging materials. Understanbably, those blades are not this steel but I’d like to hear if you guys treat them like safe queens or not.
RussB
228
Dec 7, 2018
mike.jThanks for the feedback, Russ. What steel would you prefer to have used for these types of configurations? We want to branch out more and get a wider selection of steels available. Also how hard would you say you use a Damascus bladed knife? I have a couple and I do use them but mostly just on boxes and plastic packaging materials. Understanbably, those blades are not this steel but I’d like to hear if you guys treat them like safe queens or not." Mike, I know you're new at massdrop and want things to go as well as can be. If you aren't a knife nerd then it's hard to connect with knife nerds. I couldn't ever go into a computer nerd forum and say what's good. They'd chew me up. Am i totally ignorant about computers? No. Can i hold my own against normies? Yes, and more. I say this to preface my response. You're seeking to sell to different classes of people. People who know or people who don't. This Damascus blend is for people who don't know anything or genuinely don't care about using their knives. The bulk of knife buyers want to know they're getting the greatest value on what's presented. Anyone who knows knives and has even an inkling of knowledge about steels would never want a 302 blade even if they never actually intend to use the thing. It doesn't matter if it's a safe queen or not. If it's not usable then it's not a tool and therefore isn't something to desire. With knives, people want beautiful tools that function. 302 steel was a bad choice. Literally the only people this will appeal to are people who buy it to look at it without any thought whatsoever to ever using it. Outside of fantasy knives, people would never want a tool that can't perform. Is this a fantasy knife? It shouldn't be. It's a nice design. It should be capable of work whether someone wants to work it or not. Bottom line, people want value for the tool they buy, they want it to function, they want something to ogle, and they want to know they have something special. This knife was very close to that. It missed the fundamental rule, though. It has to work. What steel? Well, if you want stainless Damascus there's really only one well known supplier of cutlery grade stainless Damascus and that's Damasteel. If it can't be at least CPM154/AEBL or something else in that ballpark, it shouldn't be in a knife. It should be at least cutlery grade. Most knife nerds don't take kindly to steels that don't function, just look at the knives from Pakistan that, arguably, look great but can't function. People expect more, especially if the flag of the United States could be associated in any way. It needs to be a tool first. If it can't be a tool, it doesn't deserve recognition. I wouldn't buy a hammer made of soft stainless that can't be hardened and therefore can't be used. I wouldn't buy an equivalent knife, either. But this knife looks freaking outstanding. It just obviously cannot perform work. Sorry, I'm sure the greatest intentions were meant by your company. This one just missed the mark and it doesn't seem like a knife nerd had any say in the choices of materials. Just to say it, i fully support what massdrop is doing in the knife world. Most of the offerings, collaborations or not, are great. This is the first one I'm really questioning. If you are the one spearheading knvies from here on, you should make your baseline question "will it perform well?" and if there are weaknesses in that logic. Knife nerds know there are always tradeoffs, but if a tradeoff means that the tool cannot function as a tool, then the tradeoff means nothing. Please keep your knives coming. You're doing something special. Just remember the first rule. Tools should be able to function as tools, first and foremost.
(Edited)
mike.j
300
Dec 7, 2018
RussBHey Russ, thanks for this response. I didn’t expect such a rebuttal on this discussion board but it’s great to see that, cause, yes, while I am new to Massdrop, I’m not as new to knives. My collection started a few years back and I’m sure my wife wished I didn’t have as many as I have. Many production knives, a few small batch stuff, and a few customs. I collect knives. I carry one everyday and use one everyday. But I use it and I don’t abuse it. I don’t cut steak on ceramic plates with my knives. I open boxes and letters with them. Your needs are much different than mine and while this knife doesn’t meet the standards for you, they’d more than meet mine. I carried an APurvis Blades Primordial with a black timascus clip and an Isham Bladeworks Blackstar today. What did you carry?
VipeX
191
Dec 7, 2018
RussBTo truly know the degree of usability of this type of steel we would need to know amount of 302 used in the mix and to what HRC they intend to heat treat it. AEB-L/302 or 304 is the same mix that Devin Thomas uses in some of his Damascus steel that ended up in knives like the sebenza ( Devin Thomas raindrop Damascus is AEB-L/304) and I've seen many people hard using their sebenza's on a daily basis and never had any problems with them.
RussB
228
Dec 7, 2018
mike.jA simple PM2 with M4.
RussB
228
Dec 7, 2018
VipeXFair statement. But how many people use their CRK with Damascus for more than simple box cutting? Either way, this knife is coming and Massdrop can learn from it or not.
Hatuletoh
850
Dec 7, 2018
mike.jI dont always love Vegas Forge, but you're right--that Lizard pattern looks great. And $339+change--I think that was about the price--is as low as you'll find for a piece of it. Might as well be $339 million for me though. Seized by some insanity, and apparently great optimism about my future finances, in a 24 hr period I put down payments on this:
search
...this:
search
...and one of these:
search
And that 24 hr period came in the same week as I'd earlier picked up this:
search
...which I might not have done if I'd known this sprint run was about to drop:
search
But so it goes--couldnt pass up a 0456 carbon fiber model! I just saw great knives which happened to appear all at the same time, and some had really great prices; plus the customs and Strider had layaway so I could actually buy them, and...well... The upshot is I'm window-shopper on this and every other site until about March. And I told my family to not buy me xmas gifts. Havent yet admitted I said that because I spent my $ on gifts for myself this year. At least I'm getting what I want. Great colors, fits like a dream, wont have to return a single gift this year.
VipeX
191
Dec 7, 2018
HatuletohI feel you, bro.
pendle616
51
Dec 7, 2018
RussBI’m a chef by trade and have handled many types of steels extensively in hard use situations. Probably more so than most in the shape of a chefs knife. I’ve used Devin Thomas Damascus to great extent and can say with sureness that his damascus is top notch. The mix of steel and heat treat is the big key here. If the 302 and AeBl are layered and heat treated properly this could produce a hard working knife that is easy to bring back to true. A pocket knife shouldn’t be brought to as a high an HRC as a kitchen knife. Greater chance of chipping or breakage under torque. And Devins Raindrop performs VERY well in a kitchen knife at much higher HRC. I see no reason why this wouldn’t work well if layered properly.
massdrop01
783
Dec 7, 2018
pendle616You can’t beat physics and chemistry here my friend. There’s tough steel and knife applications that shouldn’t need too high of a hardness for sure. This is why we have AEBL, or sandvik steel(of any flavor) etc. There’s also butter knife steel. There’s a difference between high toughness steel vs steel that doesn’t hold its edge(like 302). Just because we don’t need knife steel with too high hardness doesn’t mean we should be using aluminum to make knife. Yes the mix of steel is important and yes the heat treat is perhaps more important, but that’s assuming a steel is even heat treatable. 302 is an austenitic steel, which means that it’s not heat treatable. No amount if heating and quenching cycle is gonna give you martensitic structure for a knife to hold it’s edge resonably. BTW for perspective, a steel manufacturer list some examples products that are partially or completely constructed of 302:
  • Blenders
  • Counters
  • Dish racks
  • Dishwashers
  • Refrigerators
  • Washing machines

bmdub
65
Dec 7, 2018
mike.jHey Mike I've gotta say the knife is gorgeous. I think you all knocked it out of the park with the aesthetics on this one. But I am nervous about the use of 302 for the damascus. Could you possibly provide any HRC info for this one? If you're able to dispel any worries of an unhardenable cutting edge I think you'll find this drop selling out fast. Also, I'm sorry that no matter what you do, people are complaining about the massdrop logo. Taking it off the blade and putting it on the backspacer is exactly what so many have asked for in previous drops. This just proves there will be bitching no matter what you do short of removing the branding entirely or hiding it on the back side of the scales. I doubt it would be hard to find an aftermarket back spacer with no logo for those who are never happy.
ManaScream
38
Dec 7, 2018
mike.jHi Mike, yes, as others already have mentioned, can we please get a data sheet with the percentages of both steels used?
pendle616
51
Dec 7, 2018
massdrop01I’ll refer you to @ManaScream ‘s comment below with info from Devin Thomas’ website.
Bflying
1105
Dec 7, 2018
RussBAs a card carrying member of "Nerds With Inquiring Minds", I'd love to see the actual HRC numbers of the different layers from a finished blade. May or may not make any real difference in my buying decision, but do appreciate knowing such things about knives that I pay any form of premium for.
Agoogle
1
Dec 9, 2018
mike.jCan we please see more damascus options. Im not able to come up with the money in time unless there is payment plan type of things. I would be able to pay full by january but i currentley only have $20. And ive been looking for a great damascus folder like this for a while
Hokieengineer
35
Dec 10, 2018
RussB^This a thousand times over. 302 is crap for making a blade unless it’s a butter knife.
TMBackstrom
159
Dec 10, 2018
JDM_GT
192
Dec 10, 2018
mike.jI just realised you are one of my favourite instagram accounts I follow after reading g what you carried haha. and feel we have very similar tastes in knives. Sith crux etc..
quynh
0
Dec 18, 2018
mike.jgood
quynh
0
Dec 18, 2018
quynhabc