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DRaGZ
305
May 11, 2018
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Oldoiler
138
May 12, 2018
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DRaGZI can appreciate your argument. There are some very good things that come out of China. With that being said, those "good things out of China" are not much less expensive than things made in the U.S.A. I have to hand it to you though, there are indeed some really crappy things being made in the U.S. these days. Is it because all U.S. manufacturing pride has been tossed out the window due to the vast majority of things being made in China? I think yes and no.
One poster on here made the comment that the gentleman that runs TUKK's should outsource and have his product made for $1 in China in order to be more profitable. I think a lot of folks are missing the point. The guy with TUKK's obviously takes a lot of pride in the fact that he hand makes every piece in his shop in Iowa. It's too bad more Americans don't feel the same way. This isn't a slight against the gentlemen today that are manufacturing their item here for sale on Massdrop in China. They simply have a different business model. One could argue for days about which is better or worse.
From what I see that has drawn the TUKK's version and the current FF or whatever it is together in a somewhat opposing challenge, in this ridiculous tome of a discussion on MD (which I'm adding to by the way), is not so much the "Made In China" argument as opposed to "Made In The U.S.", but the pricing of the two products relative to where they are each made. As I said in certain ways in an earlier post, if you can afford to spend $39.99 not including shipping from MD on a Chinese made item, why not just buy the U.S. one for $53 total from a guy that obviously takes pride in what he does and is trying to support his family along the way. And, BTW, I have no idea who this gentleman with TUKK's is, nor the gentlemen selling this current product on MD.
If the United States continues to outsource everything to China, we Americans will continue to see the decline of the U.S. in literally EVERYTHING, and have a lot more to worry about In the "big picture". It is far more complicated than just having "Get over it. China can make good shit [sic]."
With the way things are going with the overreach of the U.S.' imperialistic view in regards to China, et al., especially with China's claim over some backwater Islands in the South China sea, we may not be having anything made in the P.R.O.C. anymore if a shooting match starts.
Take care and Cheers!
One poster on here made the comment that the gentleman that runs TUKK's should outsource and have his product made for $1 in China in order to be more profitable. I think a lot of folks are missing the point. The guy with TUKK's obviously takes a lot of pride in the fact that he hand makes every piece in his shop in Iowa. It's too bad more Americans don't feel the same way. This isn't a slight against the gentlemen today that are manufacturing their item here for sale on Massdrop in China. They simply have a different business model. One could argue for days about which is better or worse.
From what I see that has drawn the TUKK's version and the current FF or whatever it is together in a somewhat opposing challenge, in this ridiculous tome of a discussion on MD (which I'm adding to by the way), is not so much the "Made In China" argument as opposed to "Made In The U.S.", but the pricing of the two products relative to where they are each made. As I said in certain ways in an earlier post, if you can afford to spend $39.99 not including shipping from MD on a Chinese made item, why not just buy the U.S. one for $53 total from a guy that obviously takes pride in what he does and is trying to support his family along the way. And, BTW, I have no idea who this gentleman with TUKK's is, nor the gentlemen selling this current product on MD.
If the United States continues to outsource everything to China, we Americans will continue to see the decline of the U.S. in literally EVERYTHING, and have a lot more to worry about In the "big picture". It is far more complicated than just having "Get over it. China can make good shit [sic]."
With the way things are going with the overreach of the U.S.' imperialistic view in regards to China, et al., especially with China's claim over some backwater Islands in the South China sea, we may not be having anything made in the P.R.O.C. anymore if a shooting match starts.
Take care and Cheers!
DRaGZ
305
May 12, 2018
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OldoilerI mean, there are many reasons to get this over what is being offered with the TUKK. They are a completely different shape. The slide button is different. Massdrop claims this is safe to put in your pocket, the TUKK very explicitly says to not put it in your pocket, which kinda defeats the purpose, to me.
I could also get into a larger discussion about the global economy and America's place in it (or rather, it's increasing irrelevance in it), but this is a discussion about knives, I don't want to get too far off-topic.
And yes, if you want to get into the discussion of whether a product is worth more because it is hand-made versus mass-produced, that's a legitimate discussion. But a lot of the posts I was seeing here was like "pssh, Chinese, what a rip-off," and frankly that doesn't just come off as simplistically dumb but also a little xenophobic. It's like people freaking out over MSG or expecting all Mexican food to be cheap, stop letting your unconscious expectations of cultural stereotypes dictate actual objective buying decisions.
I could also get into a larger discussion about the global economy and America's place in it (or rather, it's increasing irrelevance in it), but this is a discussion about knives, I don't want to get too far off-topic.
And yes, if you want to get into the discussion of whether a product is worth more because it is hand-made versus mass-produced, that's a legitimate discussion. But a lot of the posts I was seeing here was like "pssh, Chinese, what a rip-off," and frankly that doesn't just come off as simplistically dumb but also a little xenophobic. It's like people freaking out over MSG or expecting all Mexican food to be cheap, stop letting your unconscious expectations of cultural stereotypes dictate actual objective buying decisions.
kingping
107
May 12, 2018
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DRaGZWithout stepping in it I'll add that there's more to consider beyond straight economics and product quality when making a purchase; dollars are votes remember...
Omniseed
1972
May 12, 2018
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DRaGZTo my eye the bulk of 'U.S. made' knives tend to either feature extremely simplistic execution of important parts, like the Spyderco Tenacious-style peel-ply G10 handle scales that the First Edge knife has, or they come with an exorbitant cost if you want a knife that has some good contouring, fit and finish to it.
At this point a 'Made in the USA' badge only tells me that I need to find the shortcuts before I make a decision on the item. A price tag for a Kizer- or WE-built item usually comes with a lot more milling and machining work than what you would expect for their materials and cost. I like well-finished knives and gadgets, sloppy or excessively spartan knives do not appeal to me just because they were made in the U.S.
Then again, there are still U.S. companies like Piranha who make plenty respectable knives at a reasonable price for their materials and still pull off an aesthetic panache.
It bothers me to no end that the same crowd who likely uses an Ozark Trail, Kershaw, or CRKT folder as their work knife also spends their time haranguing against some of the best middle and upper range production knives available simply because they are built by a Chinese company. As if the $4 3cr13mov paint scraper with a point is somehow a better deal than a perfectly executed knife with a titanium handle and S35VN blade that costs $125.
The atavism of asininity requires us to endlessly explain to these burner accounts that high end goods cannot be compared to big box store cheapest-possible goods just because they are made in the same country. I've got to say that Jonas displays an enormous amount of patience and tact when he gets involved with those skirmishes, and he does it in long form too. It's impressive to someone like me, I end up making cutting statements more often than I should.
At this point a 'Made in the USA' badge only tells me that I need to find the shortcuts before I make a decision on the item. A price tag for a Kizer- or WE-built item usually comes with a lot more milling and machining work than what you would expect for their materials and cost. I like well-finished knives and gadgets, sloppy or excessively spartan knives do not appeal to me just because they were made in the U.S.
Then again, there are still U.S. companies like Piranha who make plenty respectable knives at a reasonable price for their materials and still pull off an aesthetic panache.
It bothers me to no end that the same crowd who likely uses an Ozark Trail, Kershaw, or CRKT folder as their work knife also spends their time haranguing against some of the best middle and upper range production knives available simply because they are built by a Chinese company. As if the $4 3cr13mov paint scraper with a point is somehow a better deal than a perfectly executed knife with a titanium handle and S35VN blade that costs $125.
The atavism of asininity requires us to endlessly explain to these burner accounts that high end goods cannot be compared to big box store cheapest-possible goods just because they are made in the same country. I've got to say that Jonas displays an enormous amount of patience and tact when he gets involved with those skirmishes, and he does it in long form too. It's impressive to someone like me, I end up making cutting statements more often than I should.
rivy
143
May 12, 2018
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OldoilerI ordered this one because Brad @tacticalkeychains is slinging hypocritical drama. He is a straight-up design stealer himself. He copied KeyBar and KeySmart with his own TiKey. The knife community does not need makers like him that only want to promote the information that's convenient for their own profits.
Oldoiler
138
May 13, 2018
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rivyHi Rivy,
I didn't know the gentleman's name was Brad. I didn't and still don't know who he is, nor do I really care. Honestly, I didn't read the entire thread discussion, so I'll grant it to you that maybe he has said some hypocritical things. Personally, I have seen none, as far as I have read.
With that being said, my argument between the two knives has to do with origin and price, not whether one is a rip off of the other or not, or for that matter, another knife in general. To me saying that one knife (unless it has unique decorative qualities to it) is a copy of another knife is sort of splitting hairs. It's like saying frying pans are rip offs other frying pans. Of courser they are.
Unless you're looking at esoteric stuff, they all are simply, and relatively inexpensive "tools". The knives in question here are basically box cutters, not steak knives.
If hypocrisy and mud slinging is being done by "Brad", I completely understand, and support your reasoning for purchasing this one. There simply isn't room for that regardless of price and origin. Those things take care of themselves in time though.
Thanks
With that being said, my argument between the two knives has to do with origin and price, not whether one is a rip off of the other or not, or for that matter, another knife in general. To me saying that one knife (unless it has unique decorative qualities to it) is a copy of another knife is sort of splitting hairs. It's like saying frying pans are rip offs other frying pans. Of courser they are.
Unless you're looking at esoteric stuff, they all are simply, and relatively inexpensive "tools". The knives in question here are basically box cutters, not steak knives.
If hypocrisy and mud slinging is being done by "Brad", I completely understand, and support your reasoning for purchasing this one. There simply isn't room for that regardless of price and origin. Those things take care of themselves in time though.
Thanks
rivy
143
May 13, 2018
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OldoilerI hear that. I would much rather purchase something like this from a USA maker also, especially at similar price points. The deal breaker for me is when people aren't good people. I won't support someone who is acting the way he is acting no matter where they are from or manufacture their products. There are too many good makers (in the USA too) for us to put up with the bad ones for even a second.
Axeguy
1372
May 13, 2018
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rivyMe too. I’d order this in a heartbeat over anything else like it because of its design and a certain loyalty to these Massdrop collabs that we collectively “own” by dint of being the exact focus group / market they are designed for. Whiny harangue by poor sport with a less-well-thought-out design...? NO!
Oldoiler
138
May 13, 2018
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rivyI completely agree with you, Sir!
Man, I have truly enjoyed the civility amongst everyone in here regarding this back and forth debate for what amounts to be "box cutters"! I think we've all been in some news group discussion before that started out sane and civil on say, the subject of weedeaters or vitamins, etc. and before you know it, it has turned into a full blown character assault on the individual, their mother, sister you name it.
Thanks, rivy!
Man, I have truly enjoyed the civility amongst everyone in here regarding this back and forth debate for what amounts to be "box cutters"! I think we've all been in some news group discussion before that started out sane and civil on say, the subject of weedeaters or vitamins, etc. and before you know it, it has turned into a full blown character assault on the individual, their mother, sister you name it.
Thanks, rivy!
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"It's made in China" is not a good argument for why you think something is of lower quality.
Like...everything is made in China. Almost all of your electronics are made in China. And the good shit, too. Nintendo Switches, GPUs, smartphones, etc. It's an absurd argument that was out of date, like, 15 years ago.
Get over it. China can make good shit.
And just because it's Made in the USA doesn't mean it's actually good shit nor does it necessarily mean it's actually going to a worthy cause.