Massdrop x Focal Elex Headphones Discussions | Drop

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Massdrop x Focal Elex Headphones

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Massdrop x Focal Elex Headphones

Will

8470

Chief Product Officer

Dec 29, 2017

Hello Friends, When we approach a company to propose a collaboration, we come with a complete vision based on the discussions and community activity on Massdrop. This means a base product, the change requests voiced by Massdrop members, and a price point. The price points we present are based on our analysis of the sentiment surrounding the base product on Massdrop. Usually our partners accept our proposal, sometimes they try to debate/negotiate, and even more occasionally it’s impossible for them to accept. When we approached Focal to create the Elex, our pricepoint was $699.99. This was impossible for them to accept, so we launched at $799.99. We’ve been talking with Focal since launch day, working to create a new drop level at the original $699.99 proposed pricepoint. After much discussion, we are pleased to announce the addition of a $699.99 drop level! This means all participants (existing and new) in the drop will get the Elex for $699.99 instead of $799.99. The $699.99 drop point will be available for the remainder of this drop (next two days) but as of today, this is the only time Focal is comfortable with this drop level. What does this mean for future drops of the Elex? By default, it means all future drops of the Elex will be $799.99. However, if the response is strong enough, you may convince Focal that $699.99 is the correct price point for future drops of the Elex. Thanks for your time, interest, and lively discussion on this drop!

BigGreg

Dec 29, 2017

WillI'm glad to see the lower price. Thank you.
I was leaning heavily towards dropping out, primarily because of the unanswered questions about whether these are just Elears with different pads and cables or if something more has been done to bring them closer to the level of the Clear. It would still be nice to see that addressed in more detail as I think all the speculation probably negatively impacted sales.
I'm also curious if the lower than anticipated number of units sold will mean that they'll be shipping sooner. I'm not in a huge hurry, I have plenty of other headphones, but nobody likes to wait!

djfluffkins

157

Dec 29, 2017

WillThanks for whatever part you had in getting the price point lower. I was definitely ready to drop out, but I feel like this makes me feel like I'm getting good value and supporting both Massdrop and Focal in a positive way.

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Will

8470

Chief Product Officer

Dec 30, 2017

BigGregHey BigGreg,
Thanks for summarizing a couple of the main questions from the thread. I figured people would look at the measurements on the page and that would answer most of the Elex vs Clear vs Elear questions but I'm glad to provide an accompanying explanation.
Let's examine the similarities and differences between the Elear and the Clear.
They use the same housing, they use the same driver diaphragm material (an aluminum/magnesium alloy), and the same driver architecture (put a clear driver next to an elear driver, there's no visible difference).
They use different earpads and headband pad (perforated micro fiber on the clear vs solid micro fiber on the Elear), the drivers have different impedance (it's the same magnet in the Elear and the Clear, but they charge the magnet differently resulting in 55ohm impedance compared to the Elear's 80ohm), they use different cables, and the Clear includes a case where the Elear doesn't.
Given that context, here are two statements which are both true.
The Elex is a Clear with 25 ohm higher impedance, no case, no 1/8" cable, and a blacked out colorway for $700 (vs Clear MSRP of $1500).
The Elex is an Elear with perforated earpads and headband, a much lighter 1/4" cable, an additional 4-pin XLR cable, and a blacked out colorway for $700 (vs Elear MSRP of $1000).
Overall, the Elex is much closer to the Clear than the Elear, but which sounds closer? The Elear and the Elex, or the Clear and the Elex? Take a look at the FR graph attached to this post comparing the Elex and the Clear.

The widest delta on that graph is ~2.5db, very close to the margin of error for measurements due to positioning differences on the coupler and environmental factors from measurement to measurement (we have the same GRAS 45CA as Jude at our office, it's easy for a couple mm difference in position to show ~1-2db differences, or shift things forward or back by ~300hz)
Now take a look at the THD of the Elex vs Clear:

This one looks a little more different, that's the impedance change manifesting, but note the widest delta is still roughly a tenth of a percent. In relative terms, that's about 10% higher. At this point, it should be pretty clear what I'm alluding to and a critical thinker might ask "If it's closer to the Clear than the Elear, why'd you describe it as a refinement of the Elear rather than a refinement of the Clear?" Same reason I'm not helping all the Europeans in this thread by providing a recommended forwarding service but we're not removing recommendations from other members: Business relationships are complicated. Do you think it's easier to convince a company to present a product as a revision of their newest, most well regarded product, for ~54% less than retail price, or a revision of their oldest, least well regarded product, for ~20% less than retail price?
I'm sorry I have to phrase all of this in rhetorical questions and alluding language, but business relationships are complicated, and I may have to take down this post anyway depending who calls who over the next couple days.
As always, thanks for your interest and questions, even if I have to answer them in a roundabout way.

Will

8470

Chief Product Officer

Dec 30, 2017

djfluffkinsThanks for the kind words, but the credit goes to Focal as well. I can send all the messages I want on Christmas eve, but if they're not responding, nothing's going to happen.

Freedom87

Dec 30, 2017

WillHere's the thing, even at $699, shipped to my door and Canadian conversion, taxes in, it's going to cost me around $1k Canadian. I can tomorrow go to the store and get the Clear for $1299 CAD and take it home same day. Waiting 4, maybe 5 months for about $400 isn't really worth it. Plus i get the neat case($150USD and the fact that I want/would use it) with the Clear and the aesthetics are just as nice. In May(when it's bound to get to my door) the price of the clears may be equal to that of what I would pay for these anyway in the form of a sale or due to competition pressures(which there are serious ones out there now)... I dunno, as a new member here, I want these but the deal just isn't there.

LordBorg

331

Dec 30, 2017

WillThanks, Will, for working with Focal on this. I'm a big fan of their sound and own the Clear and Elear (the Utopias are too detailed for my ears). That said, for a Massdrop collaboration this is still too much to pay, especially on a first drop. You've been reading this from others (and from me too) that the price for this drop should be $599 at the most. I know you don't establish the final price, but please let Focal know that they have a large community of people interested here who are willing to pay $600 for the Elex, but will end up instead spending that money on LCD-2Cs, Sundaras, etc. Best wishes on future collaborations! You guys rock!

Freedom87

Dec 30, 2017

LordBorgIt's true, I'm currently looking at the LCD-2C as an alternative for the money.

bugfx32

Dec 30, 2017

Freedom87Hey, where'd you get a Focal Clear at 1300? I'm very interested. Thank you!

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Freedom87

Dec 30, 2017

bugfx32Local shop near me(Toronto), I have them on hold until tomorrow, but that's the holiday sales price. That's 1299 plus 13%. Should I leave the store tomorrow without them I will post where they are.

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bgbkt

Dec 30, 2017

bugfx32On Moon Audio use discount code " HOLIDAY150 " to save $150. Not sure how long it will be valid.

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djfluffkins

157

Dec 30, 2017

WillWill, it looks like when you first announced the price drop, the description had a ship date of 2/19. Now it's back to April 30th. Was the original change intentional? or did something weird happen?

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bugfx32

Dec 30, 2017

Freedom87Hum ok, thank you ^^
-> bgbkt: For Moon Audio, the code is still valid but 73$ shipping cost (canada) it's little expensive.

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daveemac

Dec 30, 2017

WillGiven the sudden price change, is there any chance of extending the drop by a couple days? Some of us might need to transfer funds and this can't be done over the holiday weekend...

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ulogin

Dec 30, 2017

WillJust a suggestion:
Extend the drop by 10 days, and add a goal — $599 if 800+ people sign up.

DenonFanboy

825

Dec 30, 2017

Freedom87which Toronto store?

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FrostyP

502

Dec 30, 2017

WillUnfortunately I think the timing of the drop is an issue too, it started too late in the year and is running up against the 6XX. It's probably too late but I think extending the drop by 7-10 days will help a bit along with the price drop

Freedom87

Dec 31, 2017

Freedom87As an update, I picked up the Clear today. I had the chance to listen to the Elear, Clear, and Utopia side by side for about an hour today and the result was "clear". The Elear sounded 'ok', made my head hurt after a few bass heavy tracks, while the Utopia felt very detailed/sharp, almost too much so for my taste(not to mention budget). The Clear felt like it had good enough bass(for most tracks) and the detail that I wanted was there. Talking with the sales manager for the store, they told me that when ordering from Focal, the information they got was the Focal makes only about 30 Clear headphones a day. No details about the others. So going off that I'm still unsure why the ship date is as far away as it is. Quality Control coming from Focal should be up there so it would take a little more than a month to fill a full drop should they make them at that pace. Question I have is, why is the ship date so far off?

i_want_all_the_tacos

Dec 31, 2017

Freedom87Is that store still having a sale on Clear? Would you mind sharing where you got it?

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BigGreg

Dec 31, 2017

Freedom87The problem with your logic is that they aren't going to stop making everything else they make and dedicate those resources to making only Elex just for this drop. They would have to increase their resources to increase manufacturing capacity and produce 30 Elex a day in addition to everything else they already make. I don't know the first thing about making headphones, but increasing capacity most likely involves equipment resources as well as labor resources and possibly space issues as well.

ulogin

Jan 1, 2018

WillTo Focal officials --
I am not sure how cost-effective it is to make 300 odds headphones just for one single campaign (one because very unlikely you would to this again, given the lack of enthusiasm), what about this --
Just ship us the FOCAL Clear and we call it a day.
Everyone's happy -- buyers because they get the "superior" version, you as a manufacturer because you don't need to make 300 headphones (special headband, earpads, etc) just for this campaign, and Massdrop because they don't care.
What do you say?

elbebe1000

Jan 1, 2018

bugfx32Ebay. I paid $ 1150.00

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bugfx32

Jan 1, 2018

elbebe1000Really? Every time I go, there's not one. I'm unlucky haha.

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rastus

1391

Jan 1, 2018

Freedom87I think is is a custom magnet set strength for the Elex that is a major gating factor, magnets take sooo long to get made.

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rhenom

528

Jan 1, 2018

uloginIt's a nice thought, but clearly Focal already is ready to manufacture these, consider they already made several pairs and sent them to reviewers. And let's be real, they took the pads and headband from the Clear and made them black, popped them on an Elear driver/frame also painted black and called it a day. It's not like they are starting a whole new process for the Elex.

ulogin1

Jan 2, 2018

rhenomSure. Don't forget support , though. As it stands, FOCAL have to stock spare parts including specialized earpads and headbands just for this campaign.
That's why the best option, to all parties, is to send everyone FOCAL Clear.
As for distributor's complaints, for one thing, only people of four countries are eligible to this campaign, so it's not like an across the board impact. Secondly, I would suggest FOCAL not being so restrictive as to MSRP; right now, distributors are unhappy, because they can't undercut the price themselves but FOCAL have been doing it, for the Utopia and Elear. I myself am lucky enough to sell off both without incurring huge losses, but I could imagine distributors being unhappy about FOCAL practices.

rastus

1391

Jan 2, 2018

rhenomThey could have ran a group of magnets with other R&D prototypes for the betas. Yes, I am hoping for something beyond a simple Lego Chimera. Inferences/allusions are speaking in tweak: Will: “I'm sorry I have to phrase all of this in rhetorical questions and alluding language, but business relationships are complicated, and I may have to take down this post anyway depending who calls who over the next couple days.”
And I keep looking at this:

zhouharvey

179

Feb 13, 2018

LordBorgIf the Clear MSRP is just 999, then yes, this should be 599. However Clear seems to be hyped very much by some reputable reviewers, and sell at least $1199 for now. The reviewers who hype the headphone, I believe, have a strong personal connection to the companies. Still, Clear is a good headphone, and compared to the other headphones on the market, it worths the price tag. On another end, the MrSpeakers Ether Flow sevies did not deserve its 1799 price tag in the beginning.