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HuntAndPeck
16
Jun 22, 2017
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CastleHoney
333
Jun 23, 2017
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HuntAndPeckBut ANSI is the most common layout. I definitely believe that having ISO as an option would be nice, but that really isn't possible with a pre-built keyboard that only sold 2800 units.
HuntAndPeck
16
Jun 23, 2017
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CastleHoney> But ANSI is the most common layout.
I’d wager that three out of four computer keyboards in existence are ISO keyboards.
I’d wager that three out of four computer keyboards in existence are ISO keyboards.
thebrassthief
146
Jun 23, 2017
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HuntAndPeckThat's a bold claim Cotton. Let's see if he backs it up.
CastleHoney
333
Jun 27, 2017
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HuntAndPeckYou. Just because you live in a place where ISO is the standard doesn't mean the world is the same way. If ISO was more used, why would manufacturers offer ANSI as the standard?(Most of the time)
HuntAndPeck
16
Jun 27, 2017
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CastleHoney> Just because you live in a place where ISO is the standard doesn't mean the world is the same way.
Four out of five PCs worldwide are sold outside the US. (Source: https://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-personal-computers-users-map.html)
I’ve also read that only few countries use ANSI, including the US. Can’t remember the source though. I’m not afraid to be wrong though :)
> If ISO was more used, why would manufacturers offer ANSI as the standard?
Both ANSI and ISO are standards. Manufacturers across the world offer both models, obviously. (Googling `ISO keyboard` yields over ten million results.)
Which brings me back to my original question: what is it that keeps manufacturers *in the mech scene* (and, by extension, mass-droppers) from offering both?
Four out of five PCs worldwide are sold outside the US. (Source: https://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-personal-computers-users-map.html)
I’ve also read that only few countries use ANSI, including the US. Can’t remember the source though. I’m not afraid to be wrong though :)
> If ISO was more used, why would manufacturers offer ANSI as the standard?
Both ANSI and ISO are standards. Manufacturers across the world offer both models, obviously. (Googling `ISO keyboard` yields over ten million results.)
Which brings me back to my original question: what is it that keeps manufacturers *in the mech scene* (and, by extension, mass-droppers) from offering both?
Cyphre
2708
Jun 27, 2017
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HuntAndPeckLack of demand, because ISO just isn't that common unfortunately.
Total personal computer sales worldwide does not actually factor in all PCs, as I don't know a single person who has purchased a pre-built PC in the last 5 years. At best, retailers are selling laptops and portables anyway. This all ignoring the fact that other countries outside the US also use ANSI, as WindowsIME is making it a lot simpler to use PCs in other languages.
For you to have actual data, you'd first have to figure out what countries use (and purchase) ISO keyboards, and PCs that include ISO keyboards, and how many sold in those countries. And while I'm not entirely familiar with those countries, I recall there are also variants of the ISO layout which are used in different regions.
Total personal computer sales worldwide does not actually factor in all PCs, as I don't know a single person who has purchased a pre-built PC in the last 5 years. At best, retailers are selling laptops and portables anyway. This all ignoring the fact that other countries outside the US also use ANSI, as WindowsIME is making it a lot simpler to use PCs in other languages.
For you to have actual data, you'd first have to figure out what countries use (and purchase) ISO keyboards, and PCs that include ISO keyboards, and how many sold in those countries. And while I'm not entirely familiar with those countries, I recall there are also variants of the ISO layout which are used in different regions.
HuntAndPeck
16
Jun 27, 2017
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Cyphre> ISO just isn't that common unfortunately.
Do you have any source on that?
> Total personal computer sales worldwide does not actually factor in all PCs
Could be – but would you realistically expect that factoring in all PCs would change the 20% ratio by more than a few percentage points?
> there are also variants of the ISO layout which are used in different regions.
That’s a good point, and actually the most convincing argument I’ve read so far! All those ISO variants do share the same physical layout but there are still so many options for legends.
This fragmentation could very well explain why mech manufacturers would choose not to include ISO in small runs most of the time.
Do you have any source on that?
> Total personal computer sales worldwide does not actually factor in all PCs
Could be – but would you realistically expect that factoring in all PCs would change the 20% ratio by more than a few percentage points?
> there are also variants of the ISO layout which are used in different regions.
That’s a good point, and actually the most convincing argument I’ve read so far! All those ISO variants do share the same physical layout but there are still so many options for legends.
This fragmentation could very well explain why mech manufacturers would choose not to include ISO in small runs most of the time.
Cyphre
2708
Jun 27, 2017
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HuntAndPeckISO not being as popular is a fairly noticeable observation in the mechanical keyboard community. This is not only due to the general scarcity of boards, but use of alternate formats like HHKB, 40%, etc. Has absolutely nothing to do with sales figures you think you might have.
The burden of proof still remains on you, as I pointed out what was clearly necessary if you think ISO is as widespread as you think it is. I'll await your answer: "For you to have actual data, you'd first have to figure out what countries use (and purchase) ISO keyboards, and PCs that include ISO keyboards, and how many sold in those countries." Anything other than that is purely anecdotal.
The burden of proof still remains on you, as I pointed out what was clearly necessary if you think ISO is as widespread as you think it is. I'll await your answer: "For you to have actual data, you'd first have to figure out what countries use (and purchase) ISO keyboards, and PCs that include ISO keyboards, and how many sold in those countries." Anything other than that is purely anecdotal.
HuntAndPeck
16
Jun 27, 2017
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Cyphre1. The burden of proof lies with the person who brings a claim into a discussion, _not_ on the one who disputes that claim. The original claim was: “ANSI is the most common layout.”
2. Regardless, I have already disclosed to you what my sources are, which pieces of data I have and which I don’t. I have also acknowledged already that my guesswork might be wrong.
3. “This is not only due to the general scarcity of boards, but use of alternate formats like HHKB, 40%, etc. Has absolutely nothing to do with sales figures you think you might have.” Sorry but this looks like a complete non sequitur to me. It’s a bit like asking “why are polar bears white” and then getting as a reply: “because polar bears are generally scarce, and because they have alternative temperatures like 40 °F. Has absolutely nothing to do with colors of most other animals you think you might have.”
2. Regardless, I have already disclosed to you what my sources are, which pieces of data I have and which I don’t. I have also acknowledged already that my guesswork might be wrong.
3. “This is not only due to the general scarcity of boards, but use of alternate formats like HHKB, 40%, etc. Has absolutely nothing to do with sales figures you think you might have.” Sorry but this looks like a complete non sequitur to me. It’s a bit like asking “why are polar bears white” and then getting as a reply: “because polar bears are generally scarce, and because they have alternative temperatures like 40 °F. Has absolutely nothing to do with colors of most other animals you think you might have.”
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… but that research unfortunately stopped short of discovering that people outside of ANSI land have computers, too.