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Hey everyone, Now that the drop is over and all of the units have been dispatched, we wanted to provide a post-drop update. The goal of this update is to give more transparency on the success and failure rates on this drop, along with clarity on what we're doing to resolve any issues that came up in this drop.
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Issue Resolution: • Legends + Keycap issues - Members who experienced issues with legends and keycaps are being issued replacements. When producing thousands of keycaps it is likely that a small portion of them will be misprinted. That being said, we are working on a few alternative manufacturing and quality control check procedures to decrease these failure rates. • Colemak + Dvorak or International Kits - Additionally, for those of you that have purchased the Colemak + Dvorak or International Kits, we've found issues with the production of these kits and don’t believe they’re up to our standard of quality. We plan to get these kits remade and have replacements sent out. We'll be reaching out to those affected via email with more information. As always, if you have any issues with your set please reach out to our community support team via your transactions page (https://www.massdrop.com/transactions), and they will help you out. We’re happy to hear that many members are loving the profile, and we are now working with Matteo on improvements for the next run!
Rowethren
103
Feb 23, 2018
YanboWuThose numbers don't entirely make sense. If all the Colemak/Dvorak/International kits have increased boldness in the font then the number of effected people should be higher than 24. For reference there were 87 Colemak/Dvorak sets sold and 107 International sets.
Regardless, I look forward to getting my missing/misaligned caps sent out.
caligo
99
Feb 23, 2018
RowethrenThat caught my eye as well. Those numbers are way off. So much for being transparent I guess.
Maybe the statistics were proofread by the people that were in charge of quality control? ;-)
RowethrenHey! The numbers are of those that have reached out to our support team. I imagine most people with the bold print problem had seen my posts about getting replacements done in other threads and was waiting for official word from us instead of reaching out.
HexagonPie
1
Feb 23, 2018
RowethrenI think the table only includes those that reported the defects. But I got a email that says that all International and CD sets had bolder sublimation and will be getting replacements.
caligo
99
Feb 23, 2018
YanboWuWell, it's hardly being transparent about failure rates then, is it? Seeing as the failure rates are, in fact, much higher than the percentage given.
Also, the elephant in the room is yet to be addressed: how does one even end up with a kit that has a failure rate of 100 percent if there is any semblance of quality control? And what steps are being taken to assure the same thing doesn't happen again, e.g. in future drops?
AdmrlAhab
381
Feb 23, 2018
YanboWuYanbo, could you clarify how the 3u and 4u spacebar keys are stabilized, please? I assume a 2u stab for the 3u keys, but is it the same for the 4u key?
djfrantz
220
Feb 23, 2018
Massdrop sent out an email last night that everyone that bought the International and Colverak kits are getting replacements because of the abysmal failure rate.
wokija
15
Feb 23, 2018
YanboWuJust to clarify, do the keycaps with wrong profile/misaligned legends have to be reproduced before sending them or do you have replacements in stock? Also, an estimated time would be appreciated.
YanboWuI applaud you specifically, and Massdrop in general, for sharing information on this drop's success and proactively correcting recognized quality issues. In my opinion, this is a huge step up in customer satisfaction.
wokijaIf you have alignment issues or profile issues - please open a ticket in your transactions to get assistance from our support team.
We will be auto replacing the Colemak + Dvorak and International Kits because of the issues we've found.
AdmrlAhabHey I'm actually working with Matteo on the details for this one. We'll keep everyone updated!
Judy2k2
3
Feb 23, 2018
YanboWuI appreciate this. Good decision - my keyboard looks weird right now with the bolder Dvorak keys.
FireBazooka
18
Feb 24, 2018
YanboWuSo Matt3o wrote about color issues in his blog: https://matt3o.com/the-cost-of-perfection/

"Anywho. I did the best I could with what I had. At the end they turned out pretty well, except for maybe orange. I believe the problem is with the pigment that is not dense enough and the keycaps turned out not intense as I thought. "
Will this round use a different orange than the first round?
bradr
963
Feb 24, 2018
caligoI appreciate the feedback - as Yanbo mentioned, currently the numbers are amount of orders that had a reported issue. We can take a look at future reports including "known issues" #'s along with "reported issues" #'s, though keep in mind there's overlap there and it's not necessarily possible to de-dupe the two.
I disagree that the above is "not being transparent" - it pretty clearly calls out how many people reported issues, and that two particular kits need to be re-printed. I'm proud that we're making progress in clearly communicating on this front based on community feedback. That said, it's a fair point that the above doesn't give the full context on the scale of the international and C-D issue. Here's some additional context: 7,727 items produced for 24 kits. 209 of those items were printed improperly (too bold/mis-alignment) in the 2 listed kits (international, C-D). Those kits are being re-made and the replacements are being sent to everyone impacted.
Lastly, we are making a couple improvements to our process that will help avoid the printing issues experienced with international and C-D kits in this run. The goal is to catch these issues as early in the process as possible, because even if they're caught once they hit Massdrop or our warehouse, our best option will be to send out the incorrect units and then send replacements. To try and catch any printing or alignment issues earlier, we're adding one new step and improving one of our existing steps to our QA process during production to check for exact size and alignment at the time of production across all kits.
CarmenOhio
184
Feb 24, 2018
YanboWu
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caligo
99
Feb 24, 2018
bradrI understand that the statistics are not that straightforward. But the original statement read "The goal of this update is to give more transparency on the success and failure rates on this drop". However, it doesn't provide any data on failure rates – just the number of people that contacted support, a number we all know is much lower. Hence the perceived lack of transparency. The additional numbers are appriceated though.
It's good that you are making improvements to your QA protocols. What I can't get my head around though is how they could fail in the first place, and that's what worries me. Let's say the real story goes something like this: "We had to make the deadline before the Spring Festival, so we disregarded the normal QA procedure because there was no time. It would have been mostly fine, were it not for that stressed-out guy in sector 7g who mistakedly sent the wrong svg file because his boss was being an asshole and made him work 17 hour shifts during crunch." Would it really be that terrible to just say so, if that is the case? We don't even need all the gritty details.
I appriceate what Massdrop does, I really do. But the culture of keycap groupbuys is one where the people running things are, for the most part, quite transparent about what went wrong and why when issues arise. So far, there's really no information on why the issues arose. Maybe there is a non-disclosure clause in your contract with the manufacturer that prevents you from throwing them under the bus. But if that is the case, you could at least tell us that there are legal reasons for not giving the whole story.
Also, you don't really do yourselves any favours by re-running the drop before replacements have been sent out. I'm tempted to buy another set since the profile itself is awesome, but I'm also hesitant to throw more money your way before you've rectified the problems from the first drop. I'm sure there are a lot of other customers from the first run who share that sentiment.
bradr
963
Feb 24, 2018
caligoHey Caligo - Thanks for the thoughtful response - I'm sharing with the wider team to make sure they see the feedback. Good point around the stated purpose of the post not lining up with what was shared, we'll work to do better on that front. It's a new process that we're just starting to roll-out, so the feedback is very helpful. I also agree providing more specific information and context around issues when they arise is definitely another area we can improve on, and I'll work with the team to try and improve our ability to provide specifics around causes and solutions for problems that come up. Thanks again
TelFiRE
605
Feb 25, 2018
YanboWuIf 5% are reporting the issues it is likely that closer to 25% (extremely conservative estimate) experienced them.
It's very typical of you to open a new drop when there are people still with unresolved issues from the last drop. Nice.
HotRoderX
753
Feb 25, 2018
TelFiREI don't agree with that Tel... The internet is full of known trolls and people who will crusade there cause regardless or just want to fit in. I mean not saying that everyone who reports having a issue is doing just that.. just that I remind skeptical that everyone who post they have a issue really does. Special on places like Reddit where people will do almost anything to fit in or other forums. I mean sadly the internet has kinda devolved over the years and some people just use it as a open platform to grief others for there own amusement.
CarmenOhio
184
Feb 26, 2018
HotRoderXI was in the first drop and also received full replacement sets. On both my original and replacement set, about 15% of my keycaps had issues. Based on my observed failure rate in my small sample, my guess is 99% of the sets will have at least one keycap with minor alignment issues. Of course, many of the issues I observed are so minor that most people won’t complain about it or may not even notice the issues.
Mescalamba
6
Feb 26, 2018
YanboWuOut of curiosity what classifies as "misaligned" fonts?
Cause most of my keyboard (core/base part) is tilted to the left by lets say 10-15°? Function keys, mods are mostly okay-ish. Only couple F numbers is again a bit left, does that classifies as RMA-it? (Hah with pricing from EU, probably not lol.)
Also are there any sets that are actually printed straight? :D
djfrantz
220
Feb 26, 2018
MescalambaI'm either really not observant or really lucky. When I got my set I didn't immediately notice anything, and had no real idea that something was wrong until I got the email that my colverak set was being replaced. THAT I didn't notice because I still haven't installed it because I STILL haven't made the switch to Colemak, but I buy the kit every time 'just in case'. After looking I did notice a few were tilted a few degrees but not enough to bother me.
slashwhatever
31
Feb 27, 2018
MescalambaYes you should absolutely RMA this. I'm in the EU and just received my replacement set. For free. Massdrop must mark the package appropriately to avoid you having to pay customs and tax.
That said, my replacement set have even worse alignment issues so I'm going to be contacting them again.
slashwhatever
31
Mar 5, 2018
slashwhateverFollow up on my RMA'd set. Second set arrived late last week. Opened the box. Typed out another RMA request 5 seconds later. How these things are passing QA is astonishing - the alignment issues in this set were far worse than my original.
Massdrop - save yourselves the repeated postage costs and actually check these before they go out. If they're not close to the expected quality, I will keep RMA'ing them.
AdmrlAhab
381
Mar 6, 2018
YanboWuDid you guys hash out the details for this one yet? really want to know how that 4u spacebar will mount.
elan8501
85
Mar 9, 2018
YanboWuHi Yanbowu! what step are Backspace key and Return key in RGB kit and CMY kit?
I think that Backspace key is R1 and Return key is R3. Right?
etatauri
329
Mar 12, 2018
YanboWuAre there any updates on these? Would like to have my colemak replacements soon :(
Mescalamba
6
Mar 18, 2018
slashwhateverJeez.. should I even bother? Got any pics?
Only my F3 is like sore thumb and most of my letters are bit to the left (at least most are same way to the left).
slashwhatever
31
Mar 19, 2018
MescalambaIt's up to you. I felt mine were not up to the level of quality I expected so I RMA'd them. Massdrop were happy to help so I was happy to try get a decent set of keycaps.
sixelannif
218
Mar 19, 2018
etatauriSame here, a quick update would be reassuring.
Pandemos
421
Mar 23, 2018
TelFiREJust wondering, but how are you supposed to know the failure rate of product received if they aren't reported? He can't exactly go to each person's residence and inspect their set himself, so maybe just understand that they are using the data they have. 5% (1 in 20) is still a pretty high failure rate, so even having the guts to reveal that shows transparency. Hopefully the problems are fixed in the next batch.
Ryouko
86
Mar 24, 2018
YanboWu@YanboWu Can you update the list please? Or will you update the list when there is less than 1 hour left to join the drop?
SifakaMon
310
Mar 31, 2018
YanboWuI’m not looking to get my several whacky printed legends replaced. They are legible, they just don’t read the quality that the keys otherwise are. Not worth the waste of plastic to toss them. I am just hoping the sets I ordered to fill out some holes are better.
ebfio
0
Apr 2, 2018
YanboWu@YanboWu I didn't hear about this drop... any chance another run would show up soon?
Thank you!
schoolbus
1292
Apr 4, 2018
ebfiodefinitely not likely until this round ships, as is how it went the last time.
keithzg
22
Apr 26, 2018
YanboWuIt's nice to get replacement caps for Dvorak, less nice to be charged $20 for that :(
caligo
99
Apr 30, 2018
YanboWuSo, apparently my replacement keycaps have now cleared customs. And what do you know, of course they came with a nice new import fee. $8 for a handful of keys that I've already paid fees and taxes for once already, yay. These better be damn near perfect.
Stardew
3
Apr 30, 2018
caligoThe font seems to be to small now. Can you check yours and give feedback? Look at the pictures. Row 2, letters F,G,C,L against Y and R. Row 3 E,U,I,H,T, against A,O,D,N,S. Bottom seems fine.
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StardewHooray for Dvorak. That's a nice looking board.
caligo
99
May 10, 2018
StardewLooks good to me. Well, as good as can be expected. The new prints might be a tad bit lighter than the rest of the legends, but it no longer stands out like the legends from the first run.
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OldCat
2500
Jun 24, 2018
StardewAre these from R2 or R1?
Kbdnewbie
62
Jun 29, 2018
OldCatPretty sure those are replacements from the issues that kit had in R1
Geuder
2
Jul 9, 2018
YanboWuHi Yanbo,
I have not seen such an outreach, but really want to be reached out for that. Can you help?
Best,
/Patrick
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